The Curse of Defective Concrete (Mica, Pyrrhotite, etc.) in Donegal homes - Read Mod warning Post 1

MrMusician18

malinheader wrote: »

Course not and you know this. Just treated the same as the people affected by pyrite were.
Would you be happy having to take out a second mortgage on your home of anything from 30,40,50,000 or more to fix your home that was caused by no fault of your own.

Of course I wouldn't be happy about having to repair my home. But I would be happy with any amount of support from others that had nothing to do with causing the issue.

In general, the State has no role in determining the quality of output from block manufacturers. Therefore it is not liable for the cost of repair.

If the state was liable, why hasn't anyone sued it? If it was a dead cert you'd think someone or a group would take it on.

Penfailed

MrMusician18 wrote: »

No it just points to the absurdity of trying to equate the two different issues. "We want to be treated the same as the pyrite houses", the State could easily turn around and say sure, we will give you the same amount of money that we gave to them. Isn't that equality?

No, that isn't equality...and you know that.

listermint

Penfailed wrote: »

Again, you are not comparing like for like. Those 14 cores that you took...did you send them to England to get tested for anything? Anyway, it's about €5,500 plus VAT, not €7,000.

Again your basing your opinion on no experience at all. Have you ever cored anything in your life or even chatted to a surveyor ?

Sending a rock sample for mica test is a basic test. It could be performed by any lab on Ireland.

There is a nice little profit earner being creamed off theses tests. It's amusing you think the full cost is 5500. Lovely margin all the same . Nice earner there for someone rocking around these thousands of homes.

Penfailed

listermint wrote: »

Again your basing your opinion on no experience at all. Have you ever cored anything in your life or even chatted to a surveyor ?

Sending a rock sample for mica test is a basic test. It could be performed by any lab on Ireland.

There is a nice little profit earner being creamed off theses tests. It's amusing you think the full cost is 5500. Lovely margin all the same . Nice earner there for someone rocking around these thousands of homes.

You have no idea what experience I have. Eight cores taken, repaired, packaged, sent of, tested, report on findings at €500 per core is €4,000. Another €1,500 for the chartered engineer's time? There's your €5,500. I'm sure there's a margin built in to those figures. Do you generally work for free?

handlemaster

Up Donegal wrote: »

If any of the people affected have to demolish their homes and rebuild, they shouldn't have to go through the whole planning process. And if they have to, all planning fees should be waived.

Why? If I build a house and use faulty material should my neighbour partly fund the next build ?

handlemaster

Up Donegal wrote: »

ALL current affairs tv & radio shows, north and south should be covering this until a satisfactory conclusion is reached.

Like covid isn't more important 😕

Penfailed

handlemaster wrote: »

Why? If I build a house and use faulty material should my neighbour partly fund the next build ?

Did you knowingly use faulty material?

RandomViewer

handlemaster wrote: »

Why? If I build a house and use faulty material should my neighbour partly fund the next build ?

"Used materials regulated by the state", these blocks weren't shipped in from China they were approved for use by a State agency, instead of complaining about the victims maybe next time you find yourself in a polling booth don't vote for the parties responsible

Donegalforever

firemansam4 wrote: »

This story is still not getting the national media attention it should be.

Does anybody remember the news coverage surrounding Priory hall apartments in Dublin many years back? It rightfully got huge attention at the time.
But compare that to what is happening here now with this mica issue which is affecting a larger amount of people.

If this same mica issue happened in Dublin there would be massive media attention on it now.
I really hope for all involved that the planned protest in Dublin brings more attention to this, but I feel that only something like blocking up the M50 or something else that may cause disruption in Dublin may be the only thing to start getting proper coverage on this.

It looks like RTE will keep off the news anything that the Government might not like to be broadcasted.

Donegalforever

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Of course I wouldn't be happy about having to repair my home. But I would be happy with any amount of support from others that had nothing to do with causing the issue.

In general, the State has no role in determining the quality of output from block manufacturers. Therefore it is not liable for the cost of repair.

If the state was liable, why hasn't anyone sued it? If it was a dead cert you'd think someone or a group would take it on.

Keep playing your violin.
You may know more about music than Crumbling blocks.

NIMAN

This debacle is going to be big....massively big.
We don't even know the extent of it at present.
I think number of houses and buildings affected has been underestimated.

Its a national scandal, and smaller scandals have had major inquiries into them.

This ain't going away, it needs to get the attention NOW.

Donegalforever

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It's a shame Waterford whispers pathetic attempt at comedy failed to point out that the average monetary compensation that the mica scheme will pay out is double that of the pyrite one.

Stick to your music....Hopefully you are better at it than your understanding of the Mica catastrophe.

firemansam4

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Priory Hall wasn't in the news every day. In fact "Priory Hall" Dublin returns 65k Google hits. Mica and Donegal 199k hits and pyrite and Dublin 250k hits.

The idea that the issues in Donegal are not getting similar levels of attention to issues elsewhere is not borne out by the facts at all.

I've never been one to play the poor rural victims card, but on this issue its obvious.

You can look up google hits all you like but I remember the priory hall coverage and It was big news back then. I think most people in the country probably would have heard about it. But I wouldn't say that as many people know about this mica issue which is affecting a far far larger amount of people.

I stand by my assertion that if this had of been mainly affecting people in Dublin it would have been much bigger news.

RandomViewer

firemansam4 wrote: »

I've never been one to play the poor rural victims card, but on this issue its obvious.

You can look up google hits all you like but I remember the priory hall coverage and It was big news back then. I think most people in the country probably would have heard about it. But I wouldn't say that as many people know about this mica issue which is affecting a far far larger amount of people.

I stand by my assertion that if this had of been mainly affecting people in Dublin it would have been much bigger news.

Priory Hall story got more coverage because of the developer, this time the culprits are obviously politically connected to the bumcheek parties and all stops are being pulled

handlemaster

RandomViewer wrote: »

"Used materials regulated by the state", these blocks weren't shipped in from China they were approved for use by a State agency, instead of complaining about the victims maybe next time you find yourself in a polling booth don't vote for the parties responsible

Regulated by the state. State wasn't supplying the material. The state also investigate restaurants if you get a bad meal does the tax payer pay up ? This is private business not public funded.

handlemaster

The comparison to Priory Hall is different. The state took over the whole site. Are the private home owners going to hand over the keys and their property to the government ?

firemansam4

handlemaster wrote: »

Regulated by the state. State wasn't supplying the material. The state also investigate restaurants if you get a bad meal does the tax payer pay up ? This is private business not public funded.

Ffs now we are compaing a bad meal in a restaurant to people loosing homes...

jj880

"Put an Irishman on the spit and you can always get another Irishman to turn him."

Never been more true.

MrMusician18

RandomViewer wrote: »

"Used materials regulated by the state", these blocks weren't shipped in from China they were approved for use by a State agency, instead of complaining about the victims maybe next time you find yourself in a polling booth don't vote for the parties responsible

The materials aren't regulated by the State, at least in the way you think they are. They weren't approved for use by any State agency.

MrMusician18

firemansam4 wrote: »

I've never been one to play the poor rural victims card, but on this issue its obvious.

You can look up google hits all you like but I remember the priory hall coverage and It was big news back then. I think most people in the country probably would have heard about it. But I wouldn't say that as many people know about this mica issue which is affecting a far far larger amount of people.

I stand by my assertion that if this had of been mainly affecting people in Dublin it would have been much bigger news.

An assertion which doesn't stand up to scrutiny. The amount of mentions which the mica Donegal issue generates on Google is not a million miles off the long running pyrite one.

Look back on this thread you see phrases like Leinster Government and Dublin media, pejoratives of the neglected rural Ireland trope. The truth of the matter is that this current scheme will cost €1bn over ten years, which iirc is four times as much as the pyrite scheme.

The state has stepped in and stood up, but the ask is literally for the state to write a blank cheque. And that cannot happen.

handlemaster

firemansam4 wrote: »

Ffs now we are compaing a bad meal in a restaurant to people loosing homes...

The only difference is the pricing. Both are private transactions.

handlemaster

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The materials aren't regulated by the State, at least in the way you think they are. They weren't approved for use by any State agency.

To simplistic. People are allowed to disagree on how their tax money should be sent. So you want the public to pay for repairs is the bottom line here. But why ? Why should my money go to pay for someone's unfortunate circumstances? I would rather see my money for public services. What about poor workmanship from for example a roofer a tiler etc where does the demands stop ?

muffler

handlemaster wrote: »

Why? If I build a house and use faulty material should my neighbour partly fund the next build ?

So you loose your job or you become a criminal and get sent to jail or you get very sick and spend time in the hospital etc etc etc. Should your tax paying neighbour partly fund your dole, your incarceration, your hospitalization? Catch yourself on FFS

Mod/ You know very well that people were completely unaware of "faulty material" so if you come here to troll I hope you enjoyed your stay. Any more comments like that and I'll remove your access.

muffler

handlemaster wrote: »

To simplistic. People are allowed to disagree on how their tax money should be sent. So you want the public to pay for repairs is the bottom line here. But why ? Why should my money go to pay for someone's unfortunate circumstances? I would rather see my money for public services. What about poor workmanship from for example a roofer a tiler etc where does the demands stop ?

Just seen this

handlemaster

muffler wrote: »

So you loose your job or you become a criminal and get sent to jail or you get very sick and spend time in the hospital etc etc etc. Should your tax paying neighbour partly fund your dole, your incarceration, your hospitalization? Catch yourself on FFS

Mod/ You know very well that people were completely unaware of "faulty material" so if you come here to troll I hope you enjoyed your stay. Any more comments like that and I'll remove your access.

Again this a private transaction thst has gone wrong. Why should the public foot the bill ?

MrMusician18

handlemaster wrote: »

Again this a private transaction thst has gone wrong. Why should the public foot the bill ?

In theory it shouldn't have to. In practice however there is a strong common good and social solidarity argument for at least some state assistance.

My contention is that the scheme, while not offering over 100% compensation is both fair and reasonable. The state ends up covering a majority of the cost and resolution of a problem it didn't create.

muffler

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The state ends up covering a majority of the cost and resolution of a problem it didn't create.

The people whose houses are falling down around them didnt create the problem either. Under the constitution the state is legally obliged to protect its citizens.

muffler

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The state ends up covering a majority of the cost and resolution of a problem it didn't create.

You have blown that trumpet in every other post. No more please as frankly Im fed up reading the same repetitive trolly comments

MrMusician18

muffler wrote: »

The people whose houses are falling down around them didnt create the problem either. Under the constitution the state is legally obliged to protect its citizens.

It's legally obligated to protect its citizens but it isn't obliged to indemnify them when they've used substandard building materials, unwittingly or not.

Reading an uncomfortable truth doesn't make it trolling. It is not trolling to have an opinion that the current scheme is an adequate amount of assistance for the State to give to assist with the resolution of a problem that it didn't create. There is not just one view on Mica.

Penfailed

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The state has stepped in and stood up, but the ask is literally for the state to write a blank cheque. And that cannot happen.

No one has literally asked for the state to write a blank cheque.