The Curse of Defective Concrete (Mica, Pyrrhotite, etc.) in Donegal homes - Read Mod warning Post 1

Penfailed

handlemaster wrote: »

To simplistic. People are allowed to disagree on how their tax money should be sent. So you want the public to pay for repairs is the bottom line here. But why ? Why should my money go to pay for someone's unfortunate circumstances? I would rather see my money for public services. What about poor workmanship from for example a roofer a tiler etc where does the demands stop ?

Do you know how much money is spent on overseas aid? Your money goes in that direction too. I'm happy enough to pay for that. Do you begrudge it?

Penfailed

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It's legally obligated to protect its citizens but it isn't obliged to indemnify them when they've used substandard building materials, unwittingly or not.

Reading an uncomfortable truth doesn't make it trolling. It is not trolling to have an opinion that the current scheme is an adequate amount of assistance for the State to give to assist with the resolution of a problem that it didn't create. There is not just one view on Mica.

If it doesn't work for everyone, it's not adequate. People can't even get onto the scheme because they can't afford the testing fees.

RandomViewer

Penfailed wrote: »

Do you know how much money is spent on overseas aid? Your money goes in that direction too. I'm happy enough to pay for that. Do you begrudge it?

Mod snip ... Comment removed as it has absolutely no relevance to this thread.

muffler

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It's legally obligated to protect its citizens but it isn't obliged to indemnify them when they've used substandard building materials, unwittingly or not.

Reading an uncomfortable truth doesn't make it trolling. It is not trolling to have an opinion that the current scheme is an adequate amount of assistance for the State to give to assist with the resolution of a problem that it didn't create. There is not just one view on Mica.

I asked you to desist but you refused. See you in a week.

Oh, if there is any repeat the next ban will be permanent.

salonfire

salonfire wrote: »

What the mica protest might end up doing is encouraging young people in Dublin to organise and take to the streets in protest against rents and housing in Dublin, thus overtaking the voice of mica protests if it gathers momentum.

Donegal is already lost to Sinn Fein. The government would be trying to limit their losses in the capital due to the housing issues there.

If they had half an ounce of common sense, they'd realise that they're very likely to lose the remaining two seats in Donegal over the Mica issue.


Dublin seats alone wont be enough to see them re-elected....

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If they had half an ounce of common sense, they'd realise that they're very likely to lose the remaining two seats in Donegal over the Mica issue.


Dublin seats alone wont be enough to see them re-elected....

McHugh doesn't know whether he should have Weetabix or Cornflakes for breakfast without someone telling him, waste of a seat, McConnellogue is a charmless man with no redeeming qualities ,won't be a loss, the worst thing about it is the replacement for McHugh is the infamous John O Donnell and FF don't even have the smell of a replacement for McConnellogue thanks to his antics with previous contenders

RandomViewer

RandomViewer wrote: »

McHugh doesn't know whether he should have Weetabix or Cornflakes for breakfast without someone telling him, waste of a seat, McConnellogue is a charmless man with no redeeming qualities ,won't be a loss, the worst thing about it is the replacement for McHugh is the infamous John O Donnell and FF don't even have the smell of a replacement for McConnellogue thanks to his antics with previous contenders

Neither of the two would be any loss, imo.
John O'Donnell wouldn't be any gain either.... though he seems to have quite a few fans in his own area. I'm told he works hard for his constituents. I wouldn't know - I've never asked him for anything - and wont!



Ive been unhappy with both of the main political parties for some time, but whereas they might have gotten a low preference on a least worse basis, from here on, they will get absolutely nothing unless they buck their ideas up!


Im not affected by Mica, thankfully, but I support 100% redress wholeheartedly, and my voting preference in the next election will reflect that.


Out of respect to Muffler, and Boards, I wont say anything inflammatory about the situation, except I find the whole thing very, very suspicious.


A full public enquiry is needed - after 100% redress is paid.


Sending two public representatives out to commit political suicide wont cut it - not by a long shot...

Penfailed

I heard the Claire Byrne Show on RTE covering the crisis earlier. It's good that the national broadcaster is actually speaking about it now. They named Cassidys and had more realistic figures of 8,000 people at the protests a couple of weekends ago.

NIMAN

Highland radio has a story from an affected home owner every morning around 1030am, until the protest on the 15th.

NIMAN

Listened back to the mica piece on the Claire Byrne radio show today.

To be fair to them, it was pretty good. Decent length too.

Cee-Jay-Cee

NIMAN wrote: »

Listened back to the mica piece on the Claire Byrne radio show today.

To be fair to them, it was pretty good. Decent length too.

Hopefully they’ll do a piece on her TV show too!

NIMAN

2min video coverage of one family's Mica ridden house over a 10yr period, covered by a Derry website.

https://www.derrynow.com/video/news/639813/watch-a-heartbreaking-story-of-how-the-mica-building-scandal-in-inishowen-has-affected-one-family.html

NIMAN

Another good piece on The Claire Byrne radio show just now.

Getting plenty of coverage this week, with a cabinet meeting today about the subject. Will be interesting to see if we get any extra concessions out of it.

A statement made by a homeowner on the piece just finished, and one I would totally agree with, is that this figure of 5000 homes is going to turn out to be wildly inaccurate. When you see the number of homes built here in the last 25+ years, I don't think 5000 is going to cover it. And also don't forget all the public buildings, council offices, libraries, school, hospitals etc. The guy interviewed said he would think it would be closer to 20,000 buildings, and you would have to say he might not be far wrong.

This is going to be the biggest scandal or crisis I the state, except for maybe the bank bailout. It really needs to be the no1 topic of discussion on the news etc. Otherwise the state is just burying it's head in the sand.

Thepoet85

Starting to see people on Facebook saying they are getting emails saying their parking for the day has had to be cancelled. Who or why would someone want to do this?

Edit: In relation to parking for the planned protest in Dublin next week.

Car99

The suppliers of the mica blocks are they not liable for the debts? I see cassidys are still in business with obviously sizeable assets why are they not held accountable? Were there other suppliers?

Thepoet85

Car99 wrote:

The suppliers of the mica blocks are they not liable for the debts? I see cassidys are still in business with obviously sizeable assets why are they not held accountable? Were there other suppliers?

They changed ownership a number of years back I believe. So they are legally a different business to that which provided the defective blocks. As far as I know people have no legal basis of taking the current business to court. Again, this is my understanding, maybe someone can clarify.

They have closed their doors as of this week too I believe.

As far as I know, no other suppliers have been involved in the production of defective blocks.

Car99

Thepoet85 wrote: »

They changed ownership a number of years back I believe. So they are legally a different business to that which provided the defective blocks. As far as I know people have no legal basis of taking the current business to court. Again, this is my understanding, maybe someone can clarify.

They have closed their doors as of this week too I believe.

As far as I know, no other suppliers have been involved in the production of defective blocks.

I did read that the blocks they made were within spec at time of manufacture and the regulations were changed in 2013 to prevent a repeat of mica blocks. It just seems strange that a private company supplies a defective product and the state picks up the tab. Terrible situation for any affected homeowners. Paying a mortgage for a worthless asset while living in rented accommodation elsewhere must be devastating for families.

Ace2007

NIMAN wrote: »

This is going to be the biggest scandal or crisis I the state, except for maybe the bank bailout. It really needs to be the no1 topic of discussion on the news etc. Otherwise the state is just burying it's head in the sand.

Do you think that this is bigger then Mother and Baby Homes or CervicalCheck cancer scandal?

It's a big issue for a certain cohort of people - but it's not of the government making and doesn't really affect that many people in Ireland, so to say that this is the biggest scandal or crisis in the state is OTT.

jimmycrackcorm

Penfailed wrote: »

If it doesn't work for everyone, it's not adequate. People can't even get onto the scheme because they can't afford the testing fees.

I'm curious how people would feel, if in exchange for 100% redress, that the government gets shared equity in their property to be recovered if they sell or the house passes as an inheritance? This principle is already ensconced both in the Affordable Purchase Shared Equity scheme and the fair deal scheme for nursing homes.

jj880

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I'm curious how people would feel, if in exchange for 100% redress, that the government gets shared equity in their property to be recovered if they sell or the house passes as an inheritance? This principle is already ensconced both in the Affordable Purchase Shared Equity scheme and the fair deal scheme for nursing homes.

How would you feel?

RandomViewer

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I'm curious how people would feel, if in exchange for 100% redress, that the government gets shared equity in their property to be recovered if they sell or the house passes as an inheritance? This principle is already ensconced both in the Affordable Purchase Shared Equity scheme and the fair deal scheme for nursing homes.

So it will apply to the pyrite houses in Dublin too?

malinheader

Ace2007 wrote: »

Do you think that this is bigger then Mother and Baby Homes or CervicalCheck cancer scandal?

It's a big issue for a certain cohort of people - but it's not of the government making and doesn't really affect that many people in Ireland, so to say that this is the biggest scandal or crisis in the state is OTT.

I'm sure if you and your young family were having to move out of your home or your elderly parents were still living in a crumbling house or your just a parent watching how this has changed your children's and grandchildrens lives over the past years you might have a different view of this being OTT.

Ace2007

malinheader wrote: »

I'm sure if you and your young family were having to move out of your home or your elderly parents were still living in a crumbling house or your just a parent watching how this has changed your children's and grandchildrens lives over the past years you might have a different view of this being OTT.

It's OTT in the way that the poster reported it being the "biggest scandal or crisis I the state" When you consider what has gone before - how people died in the state and it's being covered up. That's on a totally different level that the mica issue.

Do you think that the mica issues is worse than the Mother and Baby and the Cervical cancer scandal?

Remember it's not the government doing, every video doing the round mention one company all the time, yet it's been left to the government to set up a redress scheme - but no matter what the government offer - not everyone will be happy.

The cost of say the pyrite scheme was i think 125m on latest figures. How much would mica cost to fix - 10 times that, 20 times? Could you even put a figure on it?

When someone mention the bail out -the government got stake in the banks - so it wasn't just free money, but would you want the government holding equity in any redress scheme?, given it's a brand new house to be built (which is where it differs to the pyrite issues)

RobMc59

What's the point of having building regulations if companies can change their name and escape responsibility?Also,if the regulations are supposed to be a safe guard/guarantee that materials 'are fit for purpose',surely the buck stops with the regulatory body?

NIMAN

Paddy Diver on with Matt Copper tonight on tv, think it's around 10pm.

I didn't listen to the Last Word but I heard Matt gave the housing minister a tough interview.


As for me stating it's a massive scandal and one of the biggest, I wasn't thinking of the mother and baby , admittedly it might not be as big as that.
But let's be honest, this is going to be big. Properly big. You folk well away from Donegal have no idea of the extent of this. It has been ongoing since 1996, which is the earliest property now showing signs of mica. That's 25 years of defective blocks being supplied.

They weren't just being supplied to homeowners, but to many public buildings as well.

Mica was known about in the early 2010s, but the company was able to continue supplying poor quality blocks, to sites being signed off by engineers, and the local council continued to use that same company and councillors were told to say nothing. That's the perfect definition there of a scandal and if it was any other issues, there would be a guaranteed public inquiry for sure. Yet there are no plans to have one. Why?

The final cost of this is totally unknown at this stage, even with the current redress scheme. So yes it is a massive issue for the state, whether it affects you or not. The mother and baby and cervical scandals didn't affect me, doesn't mean I didn't find them shocking and would want the government to do all in their power to sort issues out for those affected.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Ace2007 wrote: »

It's OTT in the way that the poster reported it being the "biggest scandal or crisis I the state" When you consider what has gone before - how people died in the state and it's being covered up. That's on a totally different level that the mica issue.

Do you think that the mica issues is worse than the Mother and Baby and the Cervical cancer scandal?

Remember it's not the government doing, every video doing the round mention one company all the time, yet it's been left to the government to set up a redress scheme - but no matter what the government offer - not everyone will be happy.

The cost of say the pyrite scheme was i think 125m on latest figures. How much would mica cost to fix - 10 times that, 20 times? Could you even put a figure on it?

When someone mention the bail out -the government got stake in the banks - so it wasn't just free money, but would you want the government holding equity in any redress scheme?, given it's a brand new house to be built (which is where it differs to the pyrite issues)

The government introduced regulations which were not followed or enforced. The government also allow ridiculous laws to exist where a perfectly viable and highly profitable business can be wound up overnight and a new company set up the following day using the same premises, trucks, quarry etc and start trading and the other company can get away scott free and with no financial implications for their actions.

If this had happened in Dublin there would be far more happening with it and it would get far more government attention.

RandomViewer

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

The government introduced regulations which were not followed or enforced. The government also allow ridiculous laws to exist where a perfectly viable and highly profitable business can be wound up overnight and a new company set up the following day using the same premises, trucks, quarry etc and start trading and the other company can get away scott free and with no financial implications for their actions.

If this had happened in Dublin there would be far more happening with it and it would get far more government attention.

Laggan did it in Dublin, lots of the developers did it and walked without losing a penny, the best the Taoiseach of the time could come up with was "We are where we are"

NIMAN

And let's not forget that several property developers were allowed to run up debts of hundreds of millions, and more.

And then allowed to walk away scotfree while the taxpayer picked up the tab. Some of these guys are back in business spending tens of millions again like they did no wrong.

It's time this country got a handle on the ability of people to carry on this way. This new scandal now in Donegal will cost billions and has caused thousands of homeowners and businesses untold pain, but I can guarantee you, not a single person will be called to account.

Donegalforever

NIMAN wrote: »

And let's not forget that several property developers were allowed to run up debts of hundreds of millions, and more.

And then allowed to walk away scotfree while the taxpayer picked up the tab. Some of these guys are back in business spending tens of millions again like they did no wrong.

It's time this country got a handle on the ability of people to carry on this way. This new scandal now in Donegal will cost billions and has caused thousands of homeowners and businesses untold pain, but I can guarantee you, not a single person will be called to account.

Not only did property developers walk away, a number of them got well paid employment with NAMA.........you could not make it up !

jimmycrackcorm

jj880 wrote:

How would you feel?

I'd be ok with it.

RandomViewer wrote:

So it will apply to the pyrite houses in Dublin too?

Will it cost the same?

The government gives various grants for things such as SEAI improvements with no obligation of equity, but it doesn't hand over council housing for free to tenants either.