The Curse of Defective Concrete (Mica, Pyrrhotite, etc.) in Donegal homes - Read Mod warning Post 1

kippy

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Can someone clearly explain why joe taxpayer is on the hook to pay for the reimbursement???

The bill is far too big to cover for any other grouping without significant implications.

Frozen Veg

trixi001 wrote: »

Supposedly not, as its over 10 years old.

Any scheme that doesn't provide a full 100% plus 100%testing fee, plus accommodation & storage costs need to make sure that everyone has access to low cost loans for anything not funded so that everyone can have a safe liveable home

There should be a scheme already whereby people can borrow the €6000 required for the testing at a very low, not for profit interest rate, with no affordability tests, no age exclusions etc.

Company supplied defective products. Bill should be with their insurance company. I'm sure the issues were reported within ten years of build.

Frozen Veg

Btw fully supportive of those affected and they should receive redress.

But it's the insurance companies that should be footing the bill. Should be taken through the courts.

jimmycrackcorm

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

My comment on Leo was purely because he basically said people shouldn’t be building such large houses and my point still stands, the size of it is irrelevant as it’s the cost that matters and that cost is less than what a new semi-D costs in Dublin. We all live in the one country, we all pay the same taxes, we’re all ruled by the same government so the comparison is entirely justified.

Equally justified to make the comparison to the pyrite scheme and say the same money spent on it should be spent on Mica. i.e. an average 70k per property.

The whole basis for the state to apply uncapped redress seems very weak to me.

intellectual dosser

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Equally justified to make the comparison to the pyrite scheme and say the same money spent on it should be spent on Mica. i.e. an average 70k per property.

The whole basis for the state to apply uncapped redress seems very weak to me.

Its not a like for like comparison, although the precedent for redress is, perhaps.

Pyrite was a repair, Mica is (in most cases) a complete rebuild.

Cherry Blossom

Allegedly there’s going to be some sort of mica announcement during the prime time show which starts on rte 1 now. It’s a rumour I heard, don’t know if there’s any truth in it or not.

<ETA> The minister for housing had nothing new to add.

NIMAN

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Btw fully supportive of those affected and they should receive redress.

But it's the insurance companies that should be footing the bill. Should be taken through the courts.

Hopefully the government will follow up on this. I think this is why Taoiseach was chatting to the AG.

kippy

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Company supplied defective products. Bill should be with their insurance company. I'm sure the issues were reported within ten years of build.

Nowhere near as straightforward as that unfortunately.

Cee-Jay-Cee

jj880 wrote: »

Talks about Inishowen being the epicentre of this crisis only days after he takes the Taoiseach to a house nowhere near Inishowen. A FF mercenary in a suit. Charlie McHaugheylogue.

He would have been lynched if he went to inishowen. Instead he went to Raphoe to a house riddled with mica to see it’s effects. The house in question is owned by one of the first people to raise this issue nearly 10 yrs ago. It was entirely appropriate to visit there for security reasons.

I agree about McConalogue though, a toothless puppet at best and one who deserves to lose his job and be made a pariah in Donegal for his utter failure to speak up for the very people that voted for him.

Beechwoodspark

kippy wrote: »

The bill is far too big to cover for any other grouping without significant implications.

So pile it up on the backs of the Irish taxpayers?

I live the far end of the country from Donegal. I love Donegal as a county and I Have sympathy for the ppl with this problem but WHY should public funds be used to sort this?

Insurance companies? The builders who used the blocks? The block supplier??

whisky_galore

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

They shut down businesses and put people out of work.

Because pulling a Sweden would be a great move.

kippy

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

So pile it up on the backs of the Irish taxpayers?

Have sympathy for the ppl with this problem but WHY should public funds be used to sort this?

Insurance companies? The builders who used the blocks? The block supplier??

Well for one, the builders and block suppliers cannot cover the figures involved simply and have many options available to get out of overing it - so nothing will happen there.
The insurance companies have a number of outs I believe and in fairness may not even be able to cover the figures involved without major issues and/or major loading on all insurances.

Again, this is not a straightforward situation.

muffler

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

So pile it up on the backs of the Irish taxpayers?

I live the far end of the country from Donegal. I love Donegal as a county and I Have sympathy for the ppl with this problem but WHY should public funds be used to sort this?

Insurance companies? The builders who used the blocks? The block supplier??

You're probably better off putting that question to the government. The poor peasants here couldn't give you an answer.

MrMusician18

muffler wrote: »

You're probably better off putting that question to the government. The poor peasants here couldn't give you an answer.

Why would he put that question to government? The people asking the State to pay should have that answer.

100% redress is unfair on everyone else in the State. If the rebuild costs beyond the grant are unaffordable then the State should be taking equity or offering low interest loans.

Anyone see Prime Time? Really good report and Sarah gave Darragh O Brien a good going over, even if she wouldn’t let him speak too much.
Good one about the family who tried to sue the block supplier and got a letter saying they had no insurance for the blocks supplied so a dead end for them. Crazy lack of regulation and what’s worse the company is still operating! I’d love to see the government go in and say that’s it, you’re finished.
Delighted the protest went well today, hopefully these people will get what they deserve. I’d rather see my taxes going to this than to higher TD salaries.
One thing is for sure though, we haven’t seen the half of this yet.

muffler

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Why would he put that question to government? The people asking the State to pay should have that answer.

100% redress is unfair on everyone else in the State. If the rebuild costs beyond the grant are unaffordable then the State should be taking equity or offering low interest loans.

yada yada yada. Have you actually anything constructive and NEW to add? Heard that line dozens of times now. Your posts are very repetitive.

screamer

Feel sorry for them, but when is this “put your hand out to the government” aka screw the tax payer going to end????? No way there should be government redress schemes for faulty products produced by private companies.
I’m fed up of the tax payer getting lumped with paying for all sorts of things, this is just another joke, there’ll be more than block crumbling to nothing if they don’t stop haemorrhaging money for everything.

Johnny Jukebox

listermint wrote: »

Note we don't all pay the same taxes. I pay more LPT than folks in Dublin and less tax spend per head. Than Dublin and Donegal.

We certainly don't...

"The citizens of Donegal pay the least of any county in the country, with the average person aged over 15 living in Donegal paying €4,474.62 a year."

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/revealed-which-countys-residents-pay-the-most-tax-and-which-pay-the-least-36653502.html

and

"Donegal has the highest rate of tax defaulters in Ireland over the past five years, according to an analysis of figures from the Revenue Commissioners."

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/revealed-the-worst-county-for-tax-defaulters-in-past-five-years-36487889.html

NIMAN

screamer wrote: »

Feel sorry for them, but when is this “put your hand out to the government” aka screw the tax payer going to end????? No way there should be government redress schemes for faulty products produced by private companies.
I’m fed up of the tax payer getting lumped with paying for all sorts of things, this is just another joke.

Did you happen to see either the 9 o clock news or prime time tonight?

Do you know just how badly affected these homes are?

If your answer is yes to these questions, and you still think the homeowners deserve not a cent or any help to fix the problem, then you need to seriously assess your morals.

trixi001

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

So pile it up on the backs of the Irish taxpayers?

I live the far end of the country from Donegal. I love Donegal as a county and I Have sympathy for the ppl with this problem but WHY should public funds be used to sort this?

Insurance companies? The builders who used the blocks? The block supplier??

It was said on primetime that the insurance company of the blocks supplier won't cover this.

One couple said they covered every angle going and tried to claim from every possible source..and the cost of taking a case against Cassidys would be €50,000, and they don't have insurance for this issue, so pursuing it is basically pointless.

And what happens if you pursue the builders.. there would be no builders left in Donegal..so no-one to do the do the repairs and rebuilds required..

The government can reclaim what they can from Cassidys - but the issue is that the houses are falling apart now..funding is needed now, not in another 5 years, when court cases could finally be settled

The state is responsible, because they have admitted that they were responsible before in the case of defective bricks, in the Pyrite scheme, they set a precedent.

The state and county council also had minimal regulations, and allowed companies to self check that allowed this to happen, that allowed substandard blocks to be used.

There is 3 issues here:

1. Make peoples houses safe or get them somewhere safe to live
2. Establish how this happened and stop it happening again.
3. Have somesort of system so that there is a non statefunded redress for when something similar does happen again

I still believe a government backed homebond type scheme is the way forward, paid for by developers and also a contribution made by anyone self building to cover defects in materials only..

These issues could only be the tip of the iceberg, who knows what other defects are lurking out there..

screamer

NIMAN wrote: »

Did you happen to see either the 9 o clock news or prime time tonight?

Do you know just how badly affected these homes are?

If your answer is yes to these questions, and you still think the homeowners deserve not a cent or any help to fix the problem, then you need to seriously assess your morals.

Morals nothing to do with it. I said I feel sorry for them, there’s plenty of people/ causes I have sympathy for. Doesn’t mean i should have to pay for everyone’s problems. Self building is still too unregulated, people can get absolute cowboys to build houses, there’s no checking of the qualifications of the workers or quality of the raw materials. It’s all signed off by engineers and banks pay out hundreds of thousands in mortgages to build these houses. Perhaps the engineers should be sued against their indemnity insurance. For sure the tax payer should not be on the hook here.

NIMAN

screamer wrote: »

Morals nothing to do with it. I said I feel sorry for them, there’s plenty of people/ causes I have sympathy for. Doesn’t mean i should have to pay for everyone’s problems.

Unfortunately for you, you can't get to pick and choose what your tax is spent on. Our elected representatives do that. And thankfully they think these people's homes are worthy of taxpayers money.

NIMAN

screamer wrote: »

Morals nothing to do with it. I said I feel sorry for them, there’s plenty of people/ causes I have sympathy for. Doesn’t mean i should have to pay for everyone’s problems. Self building is still too unregulated, people can get absolute cowboys to build houses, there’s no checking of the qualifications of the workers or quality of the raw materials. It’s all signed off by engineers and banks pay out hundreds of thousands in mortgages to build these houses. Perhaps the engineers should be sued against their indemnity insurance. For sure the tax payer should not be on the hook here.

This anti self build angle has already been covered.

There was no shoddy workmanship. It's the raw materials that are at fault, not the builders. Self builds weren't involved in council owned housing estates, hospitals libraries, council offices, schools....yet they are crumbling too.

You are right about the raw materials but the government have obviously decided they are at fault for not regulating this properly.

screamer

NIMAN wrote: »

Unfortunately for you, you can't get to pick and choose what your tax is spent on. Our elected representatives do that. And thankfully they think these people's homes are worthy of taxpayers money.

We shall see. I hope you know where magic money trees grow BTW. We’ll need a lot to pay for every issue that people come whinging with.
I’m fully prepared to leave Ireland if things get much worse. Tax payers are finite resources, problems are never ending, we can’t pay for everyone’s issues, if you think we can you’re in la la land.

trixi001

Johnny Jukebox wrote: »

We certainly don't...

"The citizens of Donegal pay the least of any county in the country, with the average person aged over 15 living in Donegal paying €4,474.62 a year."

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/revealed-which-countys-residents-pay-the-most-tax-and-which-pay-the-least-36653502.html

and

"Donegal has the highest rate of tax defaulters in Ireland over the past five years, according to an analysis of figures from the Revenue Commissioners."

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/revealed-the-worst-county-for-tax-defaulters-in-past-five-years-36487889.html

They pay the least tax because they earn the least..which is why they also can't afford to pay massive contributions to any redress scheme

NIMAN

screamer wrote: »

We shall see. I hope you know where magic money trees grow BTW. We’ll need a lot to pay for every issue that people come whinging with.
I’m fully prepared to leave Ireland if things get much worse. Tax payers are finite resources, problems are never ending, we can’t pay for everyone’s issues, if you think we can you’re in la la land.

Cheerio.

Send us a postcard.

screamer

NIMAN wrote: »

Cheerio.

Send us a postcard.

Wouldn’t waste my money on you, or anymore time either. Free for all brigade thataway——>

screamer

screamer wrote: »

Wouldn’t waste my money on you, or anymore time either. Free for all brigade thataway——>

Good luck to you. I hope you end up in a country that looks after citizens that were wronged.

Fann Linn

screamer wrote: »

We shall see. I hope you know where magic money trees grow BTW. We’ll need a lot to pay for every issue that people come whinging with.
I’m fully prepared to leave Ireland if things get much worse. Tax payers are finite resources, problems are never ending, we can’t pay for everyone’s issues, if you think we can you’re in la la land.

The auld I'll leave Ireland if the taxes increase cry. Heard it so often now I'm surprised there's anyone left here.

NIMAN

Fann Linn wrote: »

The auld I'll leave Ireland if the taxes increase cry. Heard it so often now I'm surprised there's anyone left here.

He's probably a fan of Ray Darcy....makes similar claims. Never follows through on them.