The Curse of Defective Concrete (Mica, Pyrrhotite, etc.) in Donegal homes - Read Mod warning Post 1

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118242936#Comment_118242936

Where are you getting the information that, "most of these houses are on family land" from?

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243084#Comment_118243084

How do you get to the 92% figure? I haven't heard the detail of the scheme. Is demolition covered? Is renting another property whilst out of your house covered? Foundations? Storage of belongings? Boundary walls? Detached garages? All these things weren't covered by the previous '90/10' scheme which is why the 100% redress campaign started. Eminently fair? Not in my opinion.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118242578#Comment_118242578

Emotional and dramatic maybe but perhaps this is a man like alot of others are at the end of their tether. Being a considered and informative speaker hasn't done much over the last ten to fifteen years and that is not a reflection on Michael Doherty who is brilliant I agree.

Only for Paddy being emotional and dramatic we would still be listening to empty promises from Government and local representatives.

Cant believe how many people on this forum and others are blinded by the 420,000 statement when the sq/ft details don't work.

The governments spin doctors are doing a brilliant job at feeding the trolls and hoping to divide and conquer.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243037#Comment_118243037

1 - it's not €420k. It's €420k minus all manner of deductions and loopholes.

2 - you have some odd ideas of house value if you think €420k will buy a palace for a family of 10. My house is a 1900 sq ft bungalow and my house insurance rebuild estimate is €320k. A friend has Mica in his 3k sq foot house (not a family of 10, just 7) and he has been estimated €650k to replace like for like.

3 - it doesn't matter if it is palace fit for a family of 10. If someone built that palace with their hard earned money and sh*tty soft touch government regulation means that it's now falling down, then it should be replaced like for like. If you crash a Porsche the insurance company don't tell you to replace it with a Fiesta because "sure it's grand, it'll get from A to B".

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243165#Comment_118243165

I get that, like I said in my original post, that passion is the only reason that this is under discussion now and he should be commended.

But the same fire and anger that brought this to the fore can just as quickly derail the whole thing if Paddy leads the charge to bring Dublin to its knees.

You're right the the government are doing a great job of turning public opinion against the campaign. But Paddy and others of that mindset are feeding directly into that by impacting on ordinary innocent Dubs rather than the government who caused this mess.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243178#Comment_118243178

If you crash a 10 year old Porsche they don't give you a new Porsche though.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118242936#Comment_118242936

Conspiracy Forum --->

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118242531#Comment_118242531

Because life's a bitch and then you die... and the age old principle of buyer beware. Nobody owes YOU a living, the state (other taxpayers) taxpayers are NOT responsible for poor decisions that YOU made as regards builders, architects, engineers and suppliers. That's on your head.

WE may have sympathy for you and as I've outlined a reasonable offer would be housing in state built modest family homes or a long term loan scheme if you insist on repairs to existing properties.

That would be more than sufficient.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243603#Comment_118243603

Thanks, you've made exactly the point.

None of this is due to homeowners making bad decisions.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243664#Comment_118243664

It is entirely down to homeowners - who purchased or built the houses. And you know it.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243677#Comment_118243677

No it's not. But you know that anyhow.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243677#Comment_118243677

How is this due to me making bad decisions?

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243191#Comment_118243191

I get your point, but what other options are left. Desperate people do desperate things and these home owners are past the point of desperation. I think the homeowners have acted impeccably so far considering all the times the government have not met their said dates for a decision on this. People can only take so much.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243474#Comment_118243474

Why who crashed a house. Ffs.

No fault of homeowners, and you are well aware of this.

Concrete Cavity Block

If I bought a shite car I wouldn't expect the tax payer to pick up the tab for me to replace it...

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243877#Comment_118243877

Welcome to the forum. You're not equating like for like. My house wasn't shíte when I bought it. It is now.

cruizer101

Actually it was, you didn't know it at the time but it was, similar to if you bought a car with some unknown underlying issue that later raises it head.

In the case of a car the manufacturer would be responsible.

In the case of a house it is more complicated, is it the developer/builder or the supplier of blocks and are they still in business, that is where the compensation should be coming from.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118244242#Comment_118244242

It's much more complicated than that. The main supplier of defective blocks was operating a block yard without planning permission. DCC and therefore government are implicated in this.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243877#Comment_118243877

Troll account permanently banned

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243677#Comment_118243677

Yeah you lost all credibility there. 8/10 for effort, 3/10 for execution.

Larbre34

Well there it is now in black and white.

420k per unit cap and 145 sq/ft. Ye may take it or leave it.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118244537#Comment_118244537

Where in black and white? Nothing confirmed yet AFAIK?

Larbre34

RTÉ reporting the figures agreed at Cabinet this morning.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118244698#Comment_118244698

Just seeing that now. No official announcement yet though.

DrPhilG

Is it still a 90/10?

Aside from those with bigger houses being shafted, how does this pan out in terms of actual cost bearing in mind that the previous deal worked out more like 60/40 once the exclusions were accounted for.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118244835#Comment_118244835

The devil will be in the detail. Is the sqft cap index linked? That's only for starters. No word on demolition costs, storage, rent, etc., etc.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118244349#Comment_118244349

What on earth does planning permission for the yard have to do with anything?

I hear the owner also mitched from school, need to get the school board involved also then, right?

Larbre34

Well, the demand was 150, based on recent Donegal CoCo project costs.

145 out of 150 is 96.7/3.3

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118244852#Comment_118244852

If the council had closed them down for operating illegally then they wouldn't have been able to supply the blocks.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118244864#Comment_118244864

Oh come on, you simply have to be better than this!

If the owners parents hadn't met the owner wouldn't have been born, you want them to get involved in redress too then?

SBourgaize

Quick googling and use of the scsi rebuild calculator tells me my house (1259sqft) will be about 173,000 to rebuild, €137/sqft. But that doesn't include demolition, removal of materials, accommodation, if the foundation is safe and needs repoured, etcetc.

I'm waiting for the full scheme details, I'd imagine we'll get heavily ripped off some other way and won't have the money to avail of it.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118244901#Comment_118244901

I guess it will depend on how its implemented.

It its like an insurance payout for example, you would be "free" to use the 173K as you wished. The ancillary costs might mean that you can only spend 150K on the rebuild.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118244877#Comment_118244877

Lol, what the bollix are you on about?

Cassidys were operating illegally, not complying with government issued planning regs, not complying with government issued quality requirements, and the government looked the other way.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118245158#Comment_118245158

So why did you, others or builders buy blocks from them???? People are responsible for their own actions. It is quite extraordinary that the state has agreed to this degree of payoff. Those who are following this around the country are aghast.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118244852#Comment_118244852

A supplier of defective blocks doesn't have planning permission or insurance but supplies government bodies? Doesn't sound kosher to me.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118244856#Comment_118244856

€145 for the first 1000sqft. €110 for the rest. Works out at 85% for me.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118244877#Comment_118244877

Facetious much?

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118245219#Comment_118245219

Because nobody knew at that point, except (allegedly) the local council. If someone buys from Cassidys now, I'd agree that it's on their own head because its widely known that they're scoundrels. But 20 years ago this was unheard of.

Do you go into a pub and ask for a copy of their license before ordering a pint? If you go to hospital do you ask the doc for a copy of his/her degree and CV?

No, you have faith in the system of regulation that is meant to ensure that they are qualified and/or licensed to operate in that capacity. If I went and had treatment in hospital and it later turned out that Joe the cleaner had snuck in and performed the procedure, would that be my own fault or would the hospital get sued inside and out?

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118245271#Comment_118245271

Personal responsibility much?

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118245158#Comment_118245158

What the bollix does their planning permission or lack thereof have to do with the quality of their blocks?

Perhaps their canteen also didn't meet the FSAI requirements, maybe their HR policies wouldn't pass muster with the WRC, is any of that relevant to defective blocks in your opinion?

Do you have any evidence that anyone in the government "looked the other way"?

firemansam4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118245219#Comment_118245219

Ahh ffs here we go again blaming everybody who became victim to this scandal.

People had no way of knowing at the time these blocks were not up to standard and would most likely not have known about other business irregularities involving Cassidys.

What about people who bought houses affected by this where structual surveys could not have picked these things up at the time, is it there fault as well?

You may say people around the country are aghast at the remediation scheme, but anyone I have met outside Donegal bar just one person fully supports what people in Donegal are fighting for on this.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118245319#Comment_118245319

When you hired your builder, did you check his previous work or just take his word on it?

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118245403#Comment_118245403

I didn't hire a builder. I'm not a victim.

However what is your point? Builders were not the issue. The blocks were. But they didn't become an issue for 10, 15, 20 years. So if someone had gone and looked at other houses built using Cassidys blocks they would have been none the wiser.

The only way people could have avoided this would have been for them to take samples of the blocks to be used, had them tested and the high Mica levels would have shown up.

The problem is, that was not their job. And if you think a single person in the country has EVER done this outside of the last 5 years, you're in cloud cuckoo land.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118245352#Comment_118245352

How do you think personal responsibility comes into play in this situation?

SBourgaize

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118245677#Comment_118245677

Clearly we should have spent 6k to test the house for mica as part of the buying process.

Come to think of it, I didn't check any of the internal timber to make sure the moisture level was okay.

Oh no! I didn't even test the paint for lead!

Oh for goodness sake! I DIDN'T DO A 6 MONTH SURVEY FOR RADON.

El Tarangu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118245717#Comment_118245717

If someone bought a house and it emerged that (for example) the timbers in the roof were rotten or otherwise compromised, do you think the government should be on the hook for the cost of these repairs as well?

SBourgaize

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118245818#Comment_118245818

Were the timbers classes under a specific regulation regarding moisture? Were the regulations self certified by the supplier? Have you already taken the supplier to court and been unable to recoup any losses due the supplier having inadequate insurance?

SBourgaize

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118245833#Comment_118245833

More than this, the timbers in the roof are visible, and would be covered by a structural surveys before purchase.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118245833#Comment_118245833

What if your architect wasn't actually qualified, or your builder had never built a thing in his life...who is at fault there?

Did anyone in your process actually ask to see the certifications from the block supplier?

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118245515#Comment_118245515

Do I take this reply to mean you have no evidence that anyone in the gov was "looking the other way"?