The Curse of Defective Concrete (Mica, Pyrrhotite, etc.) in Donegal homes - Read Mod warning Post 1

1874

1874 wrote: »

ok, but who authorises or test the blocks conform to a standard, or is there a standard?
Surely the block manufacturers insurance should be on the hook here for a significant amount and not just the taxpayer?

Product liability insurance is not mandatory to have unfortunately.

Swindled

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I really don't see why you need to make this so personal. There is no one else hounding other posters to the same extent here that you are simply because they have a different opinion.

You keep adding that I've posted several technical inaccuracies. I haven't. Mica in concrete can be compensated for (at least to a point) by using extra cement. Mica causes workability problems because it creates water demand. In order to get a workable mix something had to be done and if water was added to the mix it would've reduced the strength of the blocks further. If you want to continue to use this line of attack on me I suggest you take it to PM because the ins and outs of mix design do not make for thrilling reading. I also haven't posted any technical "advice" either.

Yes it was my feeling that homebond should've covered the pyrite defects. The guarantee they provided was a structural one and the problems were structural. While I can't care to go into the details of how they got out of it, they did.

Yes taxpayers pay Varadkars wages, but after they are handed to him, what he does with it is his business.
Victims are entitled to ask any question they like of me, just as I'm entitled to address those in whatever way I like.

As I said, there is no need to make this so personal.

You came in making remarks about Donegal road accidents, then claims about blank cheques, then false claims about the mica and cement content, etc. etc. it's all on the thread. As are your mod warnings, and the mod warning about your technical points. You were the one that claimed you were a construction professional, all you have been asked is what role you played in the construction industry, as YOU brought it up, as that certainly effects the claims you are making. There is nothing personal requested.

Swindled

whatnow! wrote: »

I've previously asked you to quote any post, mine or anyone elses, which blamed the victims for their predicament. Still waiting for one.


Of course you can decide to accept or refuse an offer but the offer that will be made is conditional on what the government can afford to offer as the rest of the country are not willing to pay more in tax or give up what little services they currently get.

The question can be asked in another way where the number of people that would agree with some cold caller on the phone would be well under 50% so wouldn't hang your hopes on the red c poll.

I've reported you allegations and the post concerned to the mods, I'm not going over it here, as much as you would like to derail the thread.

1874

Swindled wrote: »

You are free to accept whatever you like, but what now experienced victims of the construction industry accept should be up to them and not dictated to by those who think we should have everything and anything but what we paid for. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. The % of one off builds is the same as anywhere else in regional Ireland. In the towns the houses are in estates, and lots of estates are effected, outside the towns it's the usual rural housing you see anywhere else in Ireland. We are not some strange planet in outer space.

We are taxpayers too, we don't want taxpayers paying for this or for us to have to pay over the odds. The government, as per the other scandals in Ireland, should look to be recovering as much as possible form those responsible and those getting away with it.

I dont know what the answer is then, I dont think there is anything on offer yet, but it was mentioned the company are still making blocks, this surely needs to be contained and they should not be allowed sell blocks until they have samples tested from each production batch.
Unless they are mitigating against it now by a different manufacturing process, in which case that would suggest a different situation.

Swindled

Swindled wrote: »

I've reported you allegations and the post concerned to the mods, I'm not going over it here, as much as you would like to derail the thread.

Report away. I've not said anything wrong.

I've seen you use the term victim blaming numerous times in the thread.

I would be annoyed to see anyone tell someone affected it's their own fault when almost nobody who builds their house even thinks about the possibility of the blocks being defective.

You have replied to me more than once that I'm victim blaming along with random stuff about bankers and now something to do with the house bought by Leo Varadkar partner. It's hard to keep track of the random things you are coming out with and stay on point.

I'm asking you to point out exactly where this occured.

1874

1874 wrote: »

I dont know what the answer is then, I dont think there is anything on offer yet, but it was mentioned the company are still making blocks, this surely needs to be contained and they should not be allowed sell blocks until they have samples tested from each production batch.
Unless they are mitigating against it now by a different manufacturing process, in which case that would suggest a different situation.

You would probably want to verify this elsewhere.

Swindled

whatnow! wrote: »

Report away. I've not said anything wrong.

I've seen you use the term victim blaming numerous times in the thread.

I would be annoyed to see anyone tell someone affected it's their own fault when almost nobody who builds their house even thinks about the possibility of the blocks being defective.

You have replied to me more than once that I'm victim blaming along with random stuff about bankers and hepatitis c.

I'm asking you to point out exactly where this occured.

As I said the posts are there, highlighted and reported. I'm not here to be your mod. You seem to think that victims of this scandal should accept everything and anything but what we actually paid for and owned, and allegations about blank cheques and no caps. We won't. We don't want anything more, we don't want anything less.

Swindled

whatnow! wrote: »

You would probably want to verify this elsewhere.

Where ?

I understand what you want.

The problem is those responsible can't afford to do this.

Do you want help? If so then realise that we are choosing to help and act accordingly.

Swindled

whatnow! wrote: »

I understand what you want.

The problem is those responsible can't afford to do this.

Do you want help? If so then realise that we are choosing to help and act accordingly.

Do you think you're the government now ?
Who is "we" ? We are citizens taxpayers and voters as well. 71% nationwide.
We also paid huge amounts of taxes on the construction of our houses, and we continue, and will continue to pay our taxes.

You're really hung up on that poll.

You will receive government assistance far in excess of the taxes you paid upon construction/purchase of your house.

Swindled

whatnow! wrote: »

You're really hung up on that poll.

I'm "hung up" on the actual truth, reality and facts of the situation, deal with it.

This is not some thread game for the victims concerned.

Swindled

whatnow! wrote: »

You're really hung up on that poll.

You will receive government assistance far in excess of the taxes you paid upon construction/purchase of your house.

Will I ? A lot of it is going to go right back on taxes, so is all the labour and material taxes, profit taxes, etc. and into the Irish economy, and so will all the taxes I and my family will pay the rest of our lives Are you on other forums complaining about what the state pays people vs what taxes they pay ?

MrMusician18

Swindled wrote: »

I'm "hung up" on the actual truth, reality and facts of the situation, deal with it.

This is not some thread game for the victims concerned.

One truth you've failed to mention is that the current live scheme will have an average payout of €140k, over 20 times the annual tax contribution of the average working couple in Donegal. For its flaws, and it has some - the scheme is an expensive bailout. While the right thing to do, the response hasn't been acknowledged at all that this is serious support provided by the rest of the country to the families affected.

You're absolutely right though, this is not a game. This is a very serious liability for the State we are talking about.

I understand you're very emotional about this which is a why you are rambling about unrelated issues and unwillingness to to see the situation from any point of view that doesn't result in your house being rebuilt as it was intended without another euro being spent by you. If I was in your shoes it is what I would want of course.

Your annoyance and sense of being swindled has made you angry and anything other than the world being made right again is unacceptable.

You're not in a place where you can see a compromise that is anything less than what you demand so you can't enter a discussion with anyone that does not agree fully with you.

The problem is that you are not in court where a judge can render a judgement against a private company so compromise will likely have to be made.

I can see you are not there yet but you will likely have to get there at some point to be able to bring this to a conclusion and move on with your life.

Swindled

MrMusician18 wrote: »

One truth you've failed to mention is that the current live scheme will have an average payout of €140k, over 20 times the annual tax contribution of the average working couple in Donegal.

You're absolutely right though, this is not a game. This is a very serious liability for the State we are talking about.

So justice and law and order depends on what county you live in and how much tax you pay ?

In terms of justice, what county/townland/street/road someone happens to live in, where they are from, and how much tax a victim has paid should be irrelevant. But of course it's never been to you.

So according to your figures, in just PAYE alone, even by us pathetic working Donegal peasants who paid and worked all their lives for their own homes, it will be paid back in just 20 years, never mind all the VAT, construction profit taxes, development charges, Vat and taxes on professional fees and earnings, materials, profits, fuel etc. (for the second time round after all the taxes paid on the first house).

I can guarantee that's a hell of a lot more tax proportionally than the extremely wealthy pay in Ireland, and who can avail from every tax loophole and scheme going, with no such complaint.

Indeed it is a very serious liability the state have here, time they started putting measures in place to prevent such future liabilities and disasters here and elsewhere in Ireland, instead of continuing to buy the blocks off the very same manufacturer, from the very same quarry source, as we speak for social housing. But nah, don't ever question that or them. Just concentrate on the victims taxes and see if you can hamper justice and restoration for them as much as possible.

muffler

Go to your beds people.

I'm locking this thread until I get a chance to read some of these posts tomorrow..

muffler

Im opening this up again but before I do I have a couple of comments.

@ whatnow! - You cant dictate how people are feeling as you stated in your last post. Thats just baiting and flaming so you will get a card for that.

@ Swindled - If you have issues with any posts then report them but leave it at that. Stating publicly that you intend to / have reported them is merely provoking a reaction so a card also for that.

@ Everyone here. Please take heed of the warning given by Cherry Blossom a bit earlier and play nice. No more sniping.

Swindled

Latest development, serious concerns from some of the IS 465 registered Chartered Engineers about the outer leaf option.

Dr Ambrose McCloskey, Chartered Structural Engineer, and a specialist in concrete, (not just general Civil Engineering) and not based in Donegal :

https://www.highlandradio.com/2021/06/29/engineer-threatens-to-withdraw-from-register-unless-mica-redress-scheme-is-changed/

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40324640.html

Summary of some of his points

"Dr McCloskey fears unless affected properties are completely demolished, further structural deterioration will occur.

He says several other Register Engineers have similar concerns around the scheme.

He has also stated that the financial cap of the scheme needs to be removed

He believes that at is currently stands, homeowners will be left with a dwelling with a blighted value and a question over the structural integrity that they can only hope will last another 15-20 years without significant deterioration.

Calls were made also for authorities to ensure robust measures are in place to control the quality of the blocks used in remedial works to ensure the same issues does not occur again.

Dr McCloskey finished his letter by saying unless things change he will not be taking on any more clients and will withdraw from the Register where possible and believes there will be a severe shortfall in Engineering and construction manpower to carry out the scheme when work starts."

ednwireland

claire byrne show this morning , peopel in clare and limerick calling to be included in the scheme !

Swindled

ednwireland wrote: »

claire byrne show this morning , peopel in clare and limerick calling to be included in the scheme !

Hardly surprising seeing as nothing has been put in place to prevent the suppliers in Donegal and elsewhere in Ireland continuing as normal. They are still happily supplying the state and others with blocks from the same quarry sources for social housing, new houses and outer leaf replacement. No effects for them. No one from the state had or is doing anything about it in reality to prevent or mitigate against it. Lord knows what other structural material manufacturers are at and getting away with on a mass manufacturing scale for entire regions/nationwide, and what else is coming down the the line, but sure as long as the CIF and their politicians are happy, and it does not negatively effect anyone in Leinster, and only the victims are being asked any questions and held to account, that's the main thing.

John_Rambo

Was there any march or protest at the brick manufacturing plant that's still supplying bricks? And where is it based?

NIMAN

John_Rambo wrote: »

Was there any march or protest at the brick manufacturing plant that's still supplying bricks? And where is it based?

The initial march in Buncrana marched up to the block suppliers quarry entrance.

NIMAN

I see there is another thread on MICA REDRESS started in the POLITICS section, but I'm bowing out of that now as I don't like the way its headed.

Swindled

NIMAN wrote: »

The initial march in Buncrana marched up to the block suppliers quarry entrance.

Their lorries have been and will continue to be blockaded where possible by the public from supplying sites, but some supplies are still getting through to sites. Many more homes will continue to be affected down the road.

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

I see there is another thread on MICA REDRESS started in the POLITICS section, but I'm bowing out of that now as I don't like the way its headed.

I expect the poll results to be skewed now you have drawn the attention of a very biased group to it.

NIMAN

whatnow! wrote: »

I expect the poll results to be skewed now you have drawn the attention of a very biased group to it.

I didn't even notice the poll tbh. But thanks for pointing it out to me, voted!;)

Its a rubbish poll anyway, its 100% or no other option.
So are the people who vote "NO" saying they don't want the homeowners to get a cent?

malinheader

Does anyone know or have any information if the Government or Donegal county council have put a stop on these quarries producing blocks until the quality or more to the point the quantity of mica and cement that is in the blocks is tested.
Surely at this stage some quarries should be being tested for quality of blocks. And probably all quarries should have blocks tested.

The percentage of people who don't want anyone to get a cent is very small. I don't know anyone with that opinion.

NIMAN

malinheader wrote: »

Does anyone know or have any information if the Government or Donegal county council have put a stop on these quarries producing blocks until the quality or more to the point the quantity of mica and cement that is in the blocks is tested.
Surely at this stage some quarries should be being tested for quality of blocks. And probably all quarries should have blocks tested.

This is the main question that I can't find an answer to either.

With the news of damaged houses in Limerick now, surely it is so important now that the Gov ensure that any block leaving any quarry now is fit for purpose.

If not, and its found that they allowed this to continue, they will have to account for their actions.

Having said that, the authorities knew about Mica blocks in 2013/14 and still we have had probably 6 or 7 years of buildings put up with potentially defective blocks.