The Curse of Defective Concrete (Mica, Pyrrhotite, etc.) in Donegal homes - Read Mod warning Post 1

Colin Clarke

NIMAN wrote: »

The sad thing about all this for me is that in the end, there will be zero accountability.
No-one will be held responsible. And the taxpayers are on the hook again.

If I had my way, any quarry owners who knowingly supplied crap materials and made huge profits, should have all their assets seized by the state. Their homes, their cars, their bank accounts. Jail time should happen but won't. Should this debacle cost the state 2bn, 5bn, 10bn...it'll cost the quarry owners not one cent. They will remain wealthy for the rest of their lives.

Any council management who has covered up any dodgy practices, behind the scenes deals, signing off big contracts with suppliers who they know were supplying bad materials, should be sacked immediately. Told they no longer have a job with the state. Again of course, not a single person whose signatures are all over this mess will suffer any comeback. It's the way we do things here.

And any government minister in charge who hasn't ordered immediate quality tests on EVERY SINGLE IRISH QUARRY material, should have to answer for any future failings, because more will come out, that much is nearly guaranteed. Why had no-one asked "so Micheal, I assume you are testing all the blocks coming out of Irish quarries now?"

Oh I so do agree with you, but my main concern for now is to help all these families have a safe solid home to live in. I live in Dublin and have witnessed how they where able to sort out the PYRITE problem here with little or no fuss. Why can't we look after our citizens in the west the same way. Go after the quarries if you want but don't let this hold up the job of resolving this problem now and as quickly as possible.

jj880

A worthwhile read on all aspects of this scandal:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/irelands-growing-mica-pyrite-quarry-scandal-turning-crisis-maye

The Mica / Pyrite debacle is now rightly being described as a Humanitarian Crisis by some commentators. Having given the issue much thought, I felt compelled to provide some perspective on the background, the issue of redress, where responsibility lies, who should pay and how political parties that have been in Government down through the years, have been complicit in creating the crisis and should of themselves be held accountable.

babybuilder

NIMAN wrote: »

The sad thing about all this for me is that in the end, there will be zero accountability.
No-one will be held responsible. And the taxpayers are on the hook again.

If I had my way, any quarry owners who knowingly supplied crap materials and made huge profits, should have all their assets seized by the state. Their homes, their cars, their bank accounts. Jail time should happen but won't. Should this debacle cost the state 2bn, 5bn, 10bn...it'll cost the quarry owners not one cent. They will remain wealthy for the rest of their lives.

Any council management who has covered up any dodgy practices, behind the scenes deals, signing off big contracts with suppliers who they know were supplying bad materials, should be sacked immediately. Told they no longer have a job with the state. Again of course, not a single person whose signatures are all over this mess will suffer any comeback. It's the way we do things here.

And any government minister in charge who hasn't ordered immediate quality tests on EVERY SINGLE IRISH QUARRY material, should have to answer for any future failings, because more will come out, that much is nearly guaranteed. Why had no-one asked "so Micheal, I assume you are testing all the blocks coming out of Irish quarries now?"

Spot on. I'm baffled that they haven't closed every single quarry subject to strict testing nor have they set up independent labs to test the materials. It beggars belief. Only conclusion is that they are giving time for vested interests to cover their tracks. No one can deny the whiff of corruption that lingers in the air especially anything related to the construction industry.

Thargor

The last few pages make for horrifying reading tbh, they should be suspicious of any block produced in the same geographic region nevermind the same fecking quarry! Is there actually no testing regime in place? And why is it 6k a test? I run way more precise tests all day long on HPLC machines and it costs about €25 a run.

Minister for Housing Darragh O'Brien won't give a straight answer to that very simple question.

jj880

My opinion is there should be no entertaining this working group until 100% redress is agreed upon first. Protest again if required to get this fundamental agreement. Any meetings after that should be about the best and quickest way to roll out the scheme to start rebuilding the worst homes and ramp up from there.

I hope I'm wrong but I feel engaging with the Housing Agency on their terms is going nowhere fast. They are taking the p!ss and there are people trying to remain in control of this campaign who have failed miserably over the last 9 years to get a workable redress scheme in place. Ive heard that its "different" this time because there's facetime with civil servants. That is farcical. Paddy Diver is a leader. The government see this. He is being sidelined and shut down. A few more of these meetings then the Summer break and everyone will be wondering what the hell went wrong after the Dublin protest.

Like I say I hope Im wrong but before we know it it will be Christmas and we will still be talking meetings and spoofing.

MrMusician18

jj880 wrote: »

2.5 hours of pure waffle is what I heard it was. Introductions and a history lesson. Sure we get that every time Charlie McConalogue opens his mouth. Paddy Diver is not happy with it and rightly so. Its a shame the election is so far away. It could turn into a long drawn out battle. I wasnt aware 31 July is to be the working group reporting back to O'Brien. I see it now in the Oireachtas.ie records for 15 June. Signs are not good. They have started trying to stall already.

I'm pretty sure there was a post on this thread (since deleted) quoting a Facebook post from the group that met O'Brien that said the meeting was very productive.

jj880

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there was a post on this thread (since deleted) quoting a Facebook post from the group that met O'Brien that said the meeting was very productive.

I could post on facebook that your posts in this thread are productive. Doesnt make it true does it. Im not engaging with you any more.

MrMusician18

jj880 wrote: »

I could post on facebook that your posts in this thread are productive. Doesnt make it true does it. Im not engaging with you any more.

I thought the group that mets O'Brien said the meeting was productive. Surely they'd know, since they were there.

jj880

jj880 wrote: »

My opinion is there should be no entertaining this working group until 100% redress is agreed upon first.

You have nothing the government wants or needs so by not engaging you're only hurting yourself.

jj880

whatnow! wrote: »

You have nothing the government wants or needs so by not engaging you're only hurting yourself.

If there's 100% redress agreed before the end of the year via this working group I will happily admit I was wrong. Not a problem.

RandomViewer

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there was a post on this thread (since deleted) quoting a Facebook post from the group that met O'Brien that said the meeting was very productive.

I'm guessing he produced many doughnuts which he promptly scoffed

JustAThought

Colin Clarke wrote: »

Oh I so do agree with you, but my main concern for now is to help all these families have a safe solid home to live in. I live in Dublin and have witnessed how they where able to sort out the PYRITE problem here with little or no fuss. Why can't we look after our citizens in the west the same way. Go after the quarries if you want but don't let this hold up the job of resolving this problem now and as quickly as possible.

I agree re the solution for Donegal mortgage-owners and on what you say about the quarries. But - and as a disturbing precedent for Mica affected families - the pyrite issue was not ‘easily sorted out’. It took class action suits by HUNDREDS of families and several stomach churning years through the courts - that financially ruined some families with the legal costs - that lead to the mediocre ‘solution’ - which was NOT the one the homeowners wanted and not one appartment dwellers wanted.

The FF/FG/Labour left farce left in change then based the even more mediocre pryite remediation board on a far watered down than the one that the several humdred families who took the class action accepted. And they accepted it only because the judge said that if they held out and continued fighting (for their rights) that there would be no money left to pay out with.

The same shambolic collection of boyos left in Leinster house then REDUCED the amount of ‘works’ pyrite families could obtain and INCREASED the threshold for acceptance into the remediation ‘scheme’ - meaning that the houses or apartments would have to be in an even worse state with all the nightmare stress and living conditions this entails before they could even apply to be considered for the scheme.

It seems human misery of Irish families who pay their way and the catastrophic stress causes is inconsequential to them - so long as the pittance offered can be deferred and delayed and the families made suffer for as long as possible.

Maybe the next time the politicians cosy up for PR for mental health and Pieta house fundraisers voters might remember the devestating stress they are willing to put people under and prolong. As you might imagine the government don’t issue press releases when they reduce support for houses or apartments with pyrite. Nor do they announce that they extend the criteria so that a house or apartment has to be a nightmare visible crumbling mess now before it can begin to qualify - and thats the same boys that Donegal families are meeting now.

I wonder if they wern’t all so ligtheaded from the no questions asked annual tax free 60k+ annual handout for unvouched ‘expenses’ that they might just start to understand the value of money and that people are literally hanging on by their fingertips and clinging to survive financially.

And that annual tax free 60+k is ON TOP of their annual salary of 90+K & housing/office/petrol/sitting on committees allowance that they add to all of that.

Small wonder O’Brien & his cohorts have little sympathy or empathy for the people they masquerade as representing. It’s an absolute disgrace.

In the meantime they are retrofitting some blocks of appartments in Dublin at an estimated cost of 2 BILLION for inter generational wasters the majority of whom have never paid a penny in tax in their life and who never have and never will work. This as well as block buying at 500k + EACH penthouse apartments in the city centre beside google to hand for life to the great unwashed on housing lists - over 25% in one council are for non-irish europeans and over 35% non even europeans. The great housing rush seems to cover all and sundry except hardworking Irish mortgage owners who pay their way and put their hand into their pocket to sullort their families and not be a burden on society. It seems there is a basic policy deficit that excludes non commercial family single home mortgage owners from being included in any of the plethora of ‘human rights’ or tax relief issues they apply to everyone else - in what seems to be a highly undemocratic and unbalanced system that discriminates against the only people they are actually paid to represent and protect.

malinheader

Meetings about previous meetings and representatives from government who when in power don't give a toss about the people they represent, Charlie has definitely confirmed this.I think that this is going to turn into a long drawn out fiasco hoping that your term in government is over and someone else can sort it out. I have always thought it would take something very bad to happen before this is really acted upon. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

I believe the average cost to repair a house under the Pyrite repair scheme is close to €70,000.

What do you think that figure will be under a 100% mica redress scheme?

muffler

whatnow! wrote: »

I believe the average cost to repair a house under the Pyrite repair scheme is close to €70,000.

What do you think that figure will be under a 100% mica redress scheme?

Where are you getting that figure from?

MrMusician18

muffler wrote: »

Where are you getting that figure from?

I can't speak for whatnow! But that figure was quoted by Martin in the Dail. He also said that the existing scheme for Mica would have grant payments that are on average twice that i.e. €140k.

muffler

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I can't speak for whatnow! But that figure was quoted by Martin in the Dail. He also said that the existing scheme for Mica would have grant payments that are on average twice that i.e. €140k.

I thought I read that the pyrite scheme was capped at 70k. Probably wrong.

I doubt if anyone can state a genuine and accurate average cost in the current climate for the redress scheme

€70,000

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/over-1-000-pyrite-homes-repaired-under-state-scheme-1.3445921

€65,000 from a more recent source with a larger sample.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/amp/ireland/cost-of-mica-redress-scheme-already-over-a-billion-euro-minister-says-1139452.html

NIMAN

I'm hearing Paddy Diver's 3rd video is online.
Haven't seen it yet myself.

malinheader

NIMAN wrote: »

I'm hearing Paddy Diver's 3rd video is online.
Haven't seen it yet myself.

Any chance you could put up a link if possible as I don't do Facebook.

jj880

malinheader wrote: »

Any chance you could put up a link if possible as I don't do Facebook.

chris_ie

Was reading through some of the thread here. Kinda same boat as some of you. House was built in 2007, there are a few long horizontal hairline cracks externally. Few odd short vertical ones. Initially the only one I was a bit concerned with was the stair stepped crack under an upstairs window, doesn't seem to have gotten worse. I wasn't initially concerned about mica, but when you start hearing more and more stories of people saying they thought they had settlement cracks but it was mica, does start to concern you!

I've taken photos a while back, must do the same again and just do a comparison. Had a look at the test there, €6,000 for full test?! Talk a bout steep (I say that not knowing the process though..)

I'd be skeptical of an initial consult as I'd imagine they'd just seen any cracks and tell you you need the full test....

NIMAN

I heard talk last week after the initial meeting that tests might be reduced in price dramatically.

Heard a figure of €400 mentioned.

DrPhilG

NIMAN wrote: »

I heard talk last week after the initial meeting that tests might be reduced in price dramatically.

Heard a figure of €400 mentioned.

That would be great, but it also raises a question.

If it can be done for €400, why the feck have people been paying 15 times that until now?

chris_ie

DrPhilG wrote: »

That would be great, but it also raises a question.

If it can be done for €400, why the feck have people been paying 15 times that until now?

Thinking the same myself! Anyone any idea of how you could figure out who supplied the blocks for the house? Not sure who built this house (we bought in 2012).

NIMAN

I think the rest is being subsidised by council.

It came out of the 1st meeting, apparently to allow more people who can't afford initial coring test cost to get into the scheme.

Also think I read that they didn't want to set it at zero, otherwise every single person with a small line on their plaster would be looking for a test done.

jj880

NIMAN wrote: »

I think the rest is being subsidised by council.

It came out of the 1st meeting, apparently to allow more people who can't afford initial coring test cost to get into the scheme.

Also think I read that they didn't want to set it at zero, otherwise every single person with a small line on their plaster would be looking for a test done.

Fair enough but it should be if you dont have mica you lose the 400 but if you test positive for mica you get your 400 back.

NIMAN

jj880 wrote: »

Fair enough but it should be if you dont have mica you lose the 400 but if you test positive for mica you get your 400 back.

I think to be fair if you pay 400 there's a fair chance you are worried, and you're likely to be worried because the signs are there.

Plus, if you were to be told you're grand, you have no Mica, it would be be best 400 you ever spent!

RandomViewer

NIMAN wrote: »

I think to be fair if you pay 400 there's a fair chance you are worried, and you're likely to be worried because the signs are there.

Plus, if you were to be told you're grand, you have no Mica, it would be be best 400 you ever spent!

I would think that anyone buying a house in Donegal will be looking for a test before bidding,