The Curse of Defective Concrete (Mica, Pyrrhotite, etc.) in Donegal homes - Read Mod warning Post 1

firemansam4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117660276#Comment_117660276

Im really not sure yet, I will need to find out a lot more information first.

But I guess im still thinking or maybe hoping I dont have a mica problem. I would hope maybe I could find out without paying thousands then if its confirmed I do have it I would have to go down the proper route via the scheme.

md23040

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117659959#Comment_117659959

Its not overly scientific but was told if you can drive a good sized nail into the block and it bends then you are fine, if it goes in with enough ease you may have a Mica issue. Dont take at the base with dampness but half way a the wall.

NIMAN

I see a couple of members of the Mayo action group have also withdrawn, claiming no progress is being made I think.

This is worrying, but perhaps as expected. Gov stalling and trying to push another 90/10 scheme apparently.

However, the 2 days protests being touted are not a good idea imho. Blocking it slowing traffic on the m50 at rush hours will only anger the population not affected, not get them on your side. If this is what's planned, I don't plan to be a part of it.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117675068#Comment_117675068

Very hard one this for me. I agree totally with you about turning people against the issue by targeting traffic but on the other hand unless some kind of real reactive stance is made to show the government the people mean business I think the government we have will be quite happy to keep up bullsihting people about being serious about resolving the issue.

malinheader

Donegal county council are now threatening to pull out of the mica redress scheme because of abuse towards their staff.

chris_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117659959#Comment_117659959

I'm still trying to get an engineer. Contacted a few who said they couldn't take on more work. I 'm kinda leaning towards a possible subsidence issue here now. The concrete pavement around the house has 2 or 3 cracks now too. We spotted one before but there are 2 more. So thats leading me to think that could be the issue.

Cracked floor tiles, window warping etc sounds like it could be subsidence also. Do you notice any other signs?

firemansam4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678982#Comment_117678982

It could well be another issue like subsidence, but I did read that issues with windows and doors are a sign of mica as well.

The cracks are not that bad at the moment, my worry with mica is it could just be the early stages. Also 9 other houses on the street are showing issues as well.

Sounds like I may have to wait to get hold of an engineer for quite a while from the sounds of it...

firemansam4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117662280#Comment_117662280

Might have to give that one a try and see what haopens.

Someone was telling me to try drilling into the wall and if it drills in very easy that could also be a strong sign.

NIMAN

Indo story saying looks like some homeowners are going to be left out of pocket.

Unfortunately its behind a paywall so not sure what details are.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/mica-hit-homeowners-could-be-left-out-of-pocket-40708103.html

Teena56

I hope everyone who thinks they have a MICA house registers with Donegal County Council for the Scheme it costs nothing for stage 1 but you are on board Do a search on Defective Blocks Grant Scheme it will give you the link then. Also I hope you have all joined the 100%RedressNoLess!! Facebook page also the Mica Action Group Facebook page. You will be kept up to date with everything that is going on

Penfailed

There's going to be a mica protest tomorrow afternoon at the west end in Buncrana from 2pm for an hour or so.

jimmycrackcorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678853#Comment_117678853

It's not fair abusing the staff who are simply trying to follow the rules of the scheme, no more, no less. I was just up in Donegal and I got first hand information about what's going on and there are some applicants really trying to take the piss. If that information was made public then there will be no public support for the 100% redress.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117725500#Comment_117725500

I completely agree not fair on staff - but it's not the applicants fault either that it's taking up to a year to get through stage 1 of the scheme. Nevermind stage 2. Scheme needs completely overhauled. Months of being asked week after week to provide 1 more piece of information each week. e.g. pictures of cracks in walls that have been proven to have a strength of 2Newton. Being asked to provide copies of original planning permission that is already on council records. It's complete nonsense so dont accuse applicants of taking the p!ss when the scheme is bollox to begin with.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117725500#Comment_117725500

I would be disappointed if applicants were taking the p1ss. I'd say most just want their homes fixed, and aren't in it to screw the scheme.

Can you give us an example of what you heard had happened?

jimmycrackcorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117726108#Comment_117726108

One person put through an application hoping an additional floor being included in the rebuild that wasn't in the original planning permission would go unnoticed. It's not the only example of "additions" included.

jimmycrackcorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117725550#Comment_117725550

A lot of it is actually down to sloppiness in the applications, Like engineers submitting their reports and not bothering to include the photos of the damage.

Also, the engineers don't want to take responsibility and are simply saying rebuild in cases when the evidence points more to an outer leaf fix for example. I can't say for certain, but I'm under the impression the issue about asking for original planning permission is linked with what's being submitted for rebuilds. I was told there were applications that have sailed through because everything was provided correctly and there are others, like the example you give where the pictures are supposed to be included in the report but for the laziness of the engineer getting paid 6k.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117729660#Comment_117729660

But surely applicants shouldn't have to submit new plans, when it's already been agreed the house would be rebuilt as it was, and DCC hold the original plans on file.

Or am I missing something?

dzer2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117729898#Comment_117729898

From my experience on new builds especially the one offs, there would be a lot of changes from the plans that were submitted. Even in housing estates the were different options available to the buyer. One house we were involved in had the roof pitch changed to allow a third floor in the attic. This I would say was never documented and if the house had to be rebuilt today the cost would be a lot different to the expected cost of the one on the plans.

jimmycrackcorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117729898#Comment_117729898

Apparently, some are submitting new plans that differ from the original.

NIMAN

Piece on RTE radio 1 now about houses around Skerries which are crumbling. Someone interviewed says they are hearing homes in Lusk also affected.

Been tested and not Mica or pyrite.

Homeowners saying they are hoping minister sorts it, as it's his constituency!

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732063#Comment_117732063

Then surely the answer would be for the council to say, " don't worry about submitting plans, we have them on file ".

babybuilder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732187#Comment_117732187

The report said that at least one test indicated mica but others did not detect it. Important to remember some labs are owned by the industry. This is why Donegal mica tests are being sent to England.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117725500#Comment_117725500

I live I Donegal and see what is happening first hand. Where did you get this information from. Was it from an official source or just a passing comment. The only people taking the pis* here is the government, people who should of been regulating and inspecting and the said companies who supplied the products.

Big statement to say the %100 should not be supported . I wonder how you would feel reading this if you were in one of these homes.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736030#Comment_117736030

In fairness he said that if people are abusing staff then the 100% wouldn't be supported, not shouldn't.

I can see the point. Same was said about the stupid notions of blocking the roads around the airport etc. It would not help with public opinion or support.

That said, the vague comment about getting first hand information looks like nothing more than sh*t stirring.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736203#Comment_117736203

What I take from the post is that if it was made public that people were taking the pis# by claiming for more than they had before then the 100% redress would not be supported.

Hopefully they will post again to clarify where this information came from.

Definitely a certain crowd are taking the pis# but it's not the homeowners.

babybuilder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736380#Comment_117736380

Agree. This is classic muddying the waters or misinformation. Trying to vilify the campaign. Leaving the 100% redress campaign why will the authorities not instigate a independent investigation into the mica block scandal. What are they trying to hide? It beggars belief that the offending quarries haven't been closed.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736609#Comment_117736609

Definitely. Be interesting to find out where the information about home owners trying to get more than they already have came from.

jimmycrackcorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736030#Comment_117736030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736203#Comment_117736203

I'm from Donegal. People can choose to think I am ****-stirring, but my long posting history on boards since 2003 doesn't suggest that. It's a small world and it's not that hard to believe that someone posting here, from Donegal, isn't directly connected to someone at the source of the information. It's vague for the same reason that I don't know who you people are either.

Reread my post. I did not say that if people are abusing staff that the 100% redress wouldn't be supported, I said that if some of the obvious attempts to abuse the scheme were made public, then there wouldn't be public support, because it would make all applications seem like scams. That certainly is very plausible. Because I live in Dublin and see the housing situation here and it would not go down well for public MICA marches if the public here cottoned on to people looking for rebuilds including an additional dormer floor that wasn't in the original plans.

How would I feel If I was affected? I previously posted that Redress is necessary because the core of society is that in a crisis situation, the government, representative of the people, must lift the burden from people where it's impossible for them to do on their own. Where I differ from some is in pointing out that it's not the government's fault either. If some believe the government failed in their duty to ensure the regulations for concrete blocks were up to standard then I'd suggest they tell Paddy Diver to stop wasting time marching and instead, take the government to court. My own IANAL opinion of that is, being around since 1949 and nobody complained, it won't go far.

I don't support 100% redress simply because the argument that it's not their fault does not imply the government should give a completely free pass. I don't like it because it's trying to take as much from me as possible as a taxpayer. Why do the proponents ignore the simple fact that they want 100% redress to give them a brand new kitchen that they won't contribute to? Why should that be when the government isn't giving me money to replace my 20-year-old kitchen? The government gives energy grants, but people have to contribute.

jimmycrackcorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736609#Comment_117736609

There is no "classic" muddying the waters or misinformation in my posts. If you believe that, then you also believe that every whiplash car accident claim is 100% genuine. Of course, it's obvious that some people will try to take advantage, that's human nature. But these are also exceptional cases. There are far more that I was told are really heartbreaking.

As for an independent investigation into the scandal - what's the point? we've topped 1bn in tribunals over the years' Tribunal costs set to break €1bn barrier - Independent.ie. What have we gotten from them?

It's a goldrush for lawyers and very easy to call for when it's not your own money you are spending.

babybuilder

If it was truly a 90% redress scheme imo there would be no problem. But it isn't. This is where the problem is. It works out at 247k or thereabouts for the max draw down on a demolition job and rebuild. So if your house (and shed or garage) costs 500k to rebuild including using your old kitchen, doors, windows etc you're out to borrow 250k plus. Anyway a bank may not and probably won't give you this amount. I've registered with the DCC scheme and I know a fair amount of details of how it works.