The Curse of Defective Concrete (Mica, Pyrrhotite, etc.) in Donegal homes - Read Mod warning Post 1

CastorTroy

Did others here get an email about stage 1 applications? Was in my junk folder, so check there if you haven't seen one.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119923010#Comment_119923010

Yep. It was in my Junk Folder too. I then got another email from my engineer expressing great concern about what this will mean...

jj880

Im not in the scheme. My faith in Donegal County Council is less than zero. I'm guessing they are blackmailing homeowners and their engineers to accept / sign off on whatever offer is made. And if you dont you get to deal with the housing agency. Am I far off?

jj880

Just a bit of background on whats going on regarding engineers here. At the recent conference Ambrose McCloskey took the opportunity to discuss the Council's approach to the scheme with his engineering colleagues. The Council is trying to make engineers sign off on nonsense remediation half assed jobs i.e. trying to shift liability/blame onto engineers for totally unfit fixes for homes. Something to keep in mind in the coming months when talking to your engineer because this farce is not their fault. The council are failing everyone in Donegal.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119924928#Comment_119924928

Pretty much.

jj880

Just read the Councils response letter to MAG and Paddy Diver. Apart from the usual not answering anything I was amazed to read all the crying and moaning about Council members being named on social media.

1. They are not doing their jobs.

2. Any time theres is any funding awarded for anything or the opening of anything they are all over social media naming themselves.

You cant have it both ways.

There are videos of some Council members standing smirking while families begged for alternative accommodation or the 15k funding to be released to buy a caravan. They put on their sad faces when they realised they were being filmed. This was 1 of the most shameful things Ive ever seen for so called public representatives.

On the legal front there is Coleman legal but also there will be some foundations suite c results published next week. Specifically exact % results for pyrrhotite and other sulphides. The first time it has been done to my knowledge.

Bernie138

Two possibly dumb questions for you guys who are further along the 'mica journey' (God help us) than me.

I have several rapidly developing, suspiciously placed hairline cracks in my render. No window / door gaping or obvious render bossing as yet.

1) I'm assuming there is no benefit from getting a structural assessment until the cracks are significantly wider? I read that the new scheme won't look at you till the cracks are 1.5cm anyway. My plan was to fill them in the spring and wait to see.

2) Now this might be really stupid - can you stay in the house if they are just replacing the outer leaf? I'm guessing not (sigh).

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119967751#Comment_119967751

If you're going to do any repairs or filling, I'd take plenty of 'before' photos. The proper assessment is done by taking and sampling cores. It's very expensive, especially if it turns out that defective blocks aren't the cause.

As far as I know, you can stay in the house for an outer leaf replacement.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119967751#Comment_119967751

Fill your cracks in. Try and keep moisture out of your blockwork as long as you can.

Only my opinion but I would not leave cracks open in the hope of getting something from the Council / Housing Agency schemes (90/10 or "enhanced"). Judging by what we are seeing from the Council recently I dont think I need to go into that. It's pretty obvious what their plan is. They are a disgrace. The Housing Agency will be no better.

As for outer leaf replacement. I wouldnt accept that at all but I'm pretty sure it will be all that will be offered to a lot of home owners eventually on a take or leave it basis.

The quicker someone gets into court and gets a settlement/judgement the better as its clear now thats the only way home owners will get what they are owed including compensation.

muffler

Im open to correction on this (and playing devil's advocate to a degree) but DCC arent responsible for some if not all of the delays. This scheme has been devised by the Dept in Dublin and is being facilitated by the council. DCC don't have the money for the scheme, All funds are coming from central government who call the shots. I'm surprised at the level of hostility directed at local council officials given the fact that decisions are being made by DoE officials.

On a separate note and something I alluded to earlier in this thread but Paddy Diver shouldnt be the voice or the face of a campaign. I cringe when I see or hear him giving an interview.

Bernie138

Thanks jj880 and Penfailed.

Photograph and fill in come better weather is my plan then watch and wait.

Still kidding myself on and off that it's not mica, but I seriously doubt it given the placement of the cracking.

It's only a building and worse things are happening all around the world. It's still not easy to get your head round the concept that the home you've worked all your life to pay for is basically a pile of rubbish worth less than the fencing around it!

jj880

The Council have been working hand in glove with central government to frustrate and delay a proper scheme to fix all the causes (not just mica) of defective concrete. Blaming each other when it suits them to do so. Why has the scheme been stalled for over a year? "Clarifications?" I dont think so. <SNIP> Why shouldn't the council house the worst affected families who are living in condemned houses? There seems to be plenty of money available for other housing when its needed no problem. Im not 1 bit surprised at the level of hostility. The council are not representing the people of Donegal. Its all about protecting central funds instead of fixing this scandal properly and I think most people know that at this stage. For the love of Christ why arent the Council testing quarries properly yet? Im surprised there isn't more hostility.

NIMAN

Does anyone know how many people have had their homes 'fixed' yet under the scheme?

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119980209#Comment_119980209

Last figure I heard was 14 in Donegal.

NIMAN

14!

And they reckon there could be 7,000 or 8,000 homes affected.

Embarrassing.

If I was cynical, I'd say the government are stalling until SF get into power, then throw the blame on them.

Bernie138

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119980093#Comment_119980093

I have been told (so this is hearsay and I will be glad if it is denied) the council has a disaster plan to urgently respond to a house collapse.

If true, the callousness and abject stupidity of that is stunning.

Horses ....stable doors .....

Why is anyone in 21st century Ireland and Europe forced for lack of money to remain in a house which can damage their health or is at risk of collapse?

And they are providing counselling for hundreds of children whose mental health is affected by homes with substandard blocks????

That's like not changing a light bulb, but having a 'Living with Darkness Support Group'.....

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119980093#Comment_119980093

Mod/ Please be careful with what you post. Unproved accusations is something we really dont want to see.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119980093#Comment_119980093

But most of what you're saying is speculative and / or personal opinions. My point is that the DoE is ultimately responsible for any and all compensations schemes. The council have a part to play, mainly administration, but the strings are being pulled by Dublin. I just think that some house owners are taking their anger out on the wrong people.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119980758#Comment_119980758

You can snip all you want. The emails were published which proved it. <SNIP> This is the Council you are saying people should now not be angry with.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119980793#Comment_119980793

Theyve been caught out now several times with evidence to back it up e.g. buying houses they knew were defective in Buncrana. So no what Im saying is not speculation/opinion. If this is really the line you are going to take in this thread then you may threadban me now.

babybuilder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119980927#Comment_119980927

The level of hostility from the political elites on this matter is for everyone to see. Not having a independent inquiry on this scandal indicates the malfeasance at the core of the issue. Particularly FF the longest serving party in government.<SNIP> In most European countries protests just wouldn't end at the council's offices. What a mild mannered people we are.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119980927#Comment_119980927

You are going to have to provide a link to an article of some sort where I can read for myself about letters/emails being buried.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119981004#Comment_119981004

I have previously asked people not to post allegations of corruption. No more of this please.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119981080#Comment_119981080

Letter:

https://www.donegallive.ie/news/news/648231/donegal-mica-redress-chair-defends-his-role.html

He revealed he had received Dr McCloskey's letter on February 23. He said the doctor asked for his insight because of his history and involvement with the mica redress scheme with the council so he could pass it on to his colleagues.

"I sent that one to the executive of the council and was sent a very comprehensive answer which I sent on to Dr McCloskey from a personal letter to me. I think it is very unfair to say I didn't pass it on to anyone else."

There you have it. McCloskey has since stated it is ridiculous that a councillor is stating a letter sent to a public representative is private/personal. The same letter was sent to Mayo Council and campaign groups yet McDermott tried to say it was a personal letter to him. Farcical. McDermott is chair of the Council's mica committee. This letter should have been brought into those committee meetings and shared with his colleagues and the public.

Edit: some details on McCloskeys letter available here: https://highlandradio.com/2021/06/29/engineer-threatens-to-withdraw-from-register-unless-mica-redress-scheme-is-changed/. Pretty obvious to see why it was hidden as what McCloskey stated is only being brought into the scheme now 18 months later (Council are now saying they'll "consider" evidence of other deleterious materials besides mica) which should give demolition to homeowners with these sulphides. So extra expense to the government. Council are being deliberately reactive and dragging their heals at every turn.

5 Houses Purchased in Buncrana:

https://www.donegallive.ie/news/local-news/917254/gardai-probe-councils-purchase-of-mica-houses.html

On 4 March 2021, the council sought approval for the drawdown of the funds for the purchase. As part of its submission process, the council stated on a form provided to the department that the houses were of ‘good condition, improvement works required’ which the council believed was consistent with its assessments carried out in 2019 and 2020.

“However, BDO believes that this statement could have been qualified by reference to the geological tests that had been conducted in 2019. The Department of Housing approved the purchase of the five houses, conditional upon the council being satisfied as to their condition.

Council tested the houses in 2019 and 2020. Council applied for the funds in 2021. The "independent" BDO report that cost the tax payer 20,000 euro states: no corruption but it would have been nice if the Council did tell the Dept Of Housing that the houses were defective 😂😂😂. Its absolutely ridiculous. This is the Council we are now asked to trust to have our best interests at heart for this scheme. It's tragic in all honesty.

muffler

Honestly, Im not seeing anything to back up your claim. The Highland radio link is something completely different and the Donegal Live link doesnt allow me to view it unless I register on the site which I dont intend doing. The headline in that paper gives no indication of documents having been buried and the quotes supplied make no sense.

Im not being awkward here but if you make certain allegations then it is my job to ensure that proof showing the allegations to be true is available to the wider public.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119981865#Comment_119981865

You can stop the Donegal live pages loading before the registration gate appears. The Highland Radio link clearly states the purpose McCloskeys letter if you read it. The quotes Ive posted are in the articles. If you still dont think its proof then Ive no idea what the proof threshold is for boards.ie. Maybe I need recorded testimonies.

Bernie138

Anyone on this forum have proven defective blocks from a company other than Cassidy?

If so, is naming them against site policy?

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997039#Comment_119997039

...

NIMAN

I remember a few years back a guy in Inishowen saying his house had Mica and he didn't get his blocks from Cassidys, but from XXXXX.

Then afterwards it was discovered that during the boom, when some of the suppliers were struggling to meet demand, they'd often buy extra blocks from Cassidys, who were able to supply in bigger quantities.

So it's not 100% that if your builder got blocks from elsewhere, that they are not Cassidys after all.

dollylama

It's clear looking across the West coast that defective blocks were not exclusive to Cassidys ... plenty of examples in Mayo, Clare and Limerick

What doesn't make sense to me however... block manufacturers in Ireland didn't suddenly happen upon mica and pyrite in their quarries during the boom. These minerals have been present in the ground since Adam was a boy and have been known to be deleterious for decades.

So what really changed with block manufacturing, particularly on the West coast, during the 2000's / 2010's? While it's highly likely that manufactures started cutting corners, reducing cement and other additives... I would wager that this cavalier attitude would have been more prevalent in the lean and unregulated 70's / 80's yet blocks from that era are, by all accounts, perfectly fine. So I do wonder what else was at play? Did cement on the Irish market change, did manufacturers start using a bad additive?

I'm not for a minute insinuating that manufacturers are not culpable, they absolutely are but it seems to me there's more to it than simply mica and messing with manufacturing

Bernie138

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997299#Comment_119997299

Interesting...

A house near me has been repaired due to mica.

Rumour has it that there seemed to be 2 different types of block in the walls.

A builder also told me that he had done a repair on a house taking out and replacing part of a wall only. That wasn't blamed on mica, but there was no obvious reason like water damage for the problem.

That might be explained by suppliers buying from Cassidy or other affected quarries when they were not keeping up with demand.

I fear that the grossly affected houses we have seen already are only the first ripples of an oncoming wave.

(Luckily, I know nothing about it!)