Players from other countys that would make Dublin first 15

blowitupref

blanch152 wrote: »

A Hail Mary option off the bench instead of O'Gara might be an option. Then again, O'Gara scored 2-2 against Roscommon. Comer got 2 points against Roscommon, and the starting Galway forward line only managed 9 points from play against them.

Not comparing like for like in fairness as Roscommon's defending in the Connacht final was just slightly more focused than that dead rubber game against Dublin.

Stoner

I would, the main thing going for Mannion etc is his ability to track back, tackle and still score.

TBH I'm not sure how to rate that in a forward, but take everything else away Clifford etc, that does help Mannion start over other Dublin players so why not over any other players.

There use to be arguments about Gooch being a luxury player


Yet McManus takes two men to mark him. It's possibly similar to tracking back.

He'd start, but so would a fit B Brogan and neither track back a lot

Brogan does now because lads like Mannion and O'Callahan do and they took his place.

Loads of room for McManus

I think you have to track back and be a defender in this Dublin team. So M Murphy would be a better fit IMO,

He'd replace Rock, take frees, track back, the occasional drift option for a kick out, he is the ultimate Gavin player imo.

AGC

blanch152 wrote: »

Is that instead of Mannion, Kilkenny or O'Callaghan?

This season he’d be in ahead of mannion and O’Callaghan at times, if you are talking HF line he’d be ahead of scully.

Fr Tod Umptious

blanch152 wrote: »

That is an urban myth.

For the first kickout, there was wrestling. Kilkenny got a black card.

For the second kickout, there were three free Mayo men on one side of the pitch. Clarke kicked it out over the sideline on the other side.

Watch it again.

No chance.

BonnieSituation

Stoner wrote: »

I would, the main thing going for Mannion etc is his ability to track back, tackle and still score.

TBH I'm not sure how to rate that in a forward, but take everything else away Clifford etc, that does help Mannion start over other Dublin players so why not over any other players.

There use to be arguments about Gooch being a luxury player


Yet McManus takes two men to mark him. It's possibly similar to tracking back.

He'd start, but so would a fit B Brogan and neither track back a lot

Brogan does now because lads like Mannion and O'Callahan do and they took his place.

Loads of room for McManus

I think you have to track back to be a defender in this Dublin team. So M Murphy would be a better fit IMO,

He'd replace Rock, take frees, track back, the occasional drift option for a kick out, he is the ultimate Gavin player imo.

I'd love to see him take charge of the Intl Rules team down under enxt year and run the rule over Murphy and McManus.

Stoner

BonnieSituation wrote:

I'd love to see him take charge of the Intl Rules team down under enxt year and run the rule over Murphy and McManus.

They'd knock the life out of us again imo

The Talking Bread

Jimmy Hyland................




; )

Stoner

The Talking Bread wrote:

Jimmy Hyland................

I nearly put him down, he'd be in the development side with Cooke , fantastic player, but you have have to see him with seniors

He needs 5 games at half back first !

DickSwiveller Returns

David Clifford
Mattie Donnelly
Colm Boyle
Mick Murphy
Paddy McBrearty

BonnieSituation

Stoner wrote: »

They'd knock the life out of us again imo

They hardly did last time out and McManus was man of the series.

Glenbhoy

People have focussed on the top teams, my guess is there are many players around the country who could perform to the same or similar standard as many in the Dublin team. Someone pointed out Chrissy McKaigue for example, what about Quinlivan from tipp? Big Murphy from Carlow, Sweeney from tipp to name but a few?
For me, Dublin have an extremely talented squad, but the buy-in from the players is the key thing, i think there are many around the country wko could do the job equally as well.

Maybe another way of looking at it would be what Dublin player moving on his own to a non div1 team (we'll take the 8 who started this year as the sample) would make the most difference?? Or would they just take one look at the set-up and say fcuk this, ye'll never get near
the dubs and head the states, concentrate in the club or whatever, which appears to be happening on a large scale countrywide?

corny

Dublin players.

1. Cluxton
2. Cooper
5. McCarthy
7. McCaffrey
8. Fenton
11. CK
12. Howard
15. Mannion

mixed with

3. Wylie
4. Harrison
6. Harte
9. Donnelly (although i wouldn't quibble with MDM, Moran or Parsons)
10. McHugh
13. McManus
14. Murphy or O'Shea

I'd have Jamie Clarke coming off the bench too.

Strabanimal

STB. wrote: »

Tiernan McCann - are you having a laugh.

Paddy Mc Brearty and McManus no problem.

You can keep Harte. The pitch is maintained by a groundsman and won't need any adjustments. We don't need cynical fouling and gamesmanship in Dublin football. We can play the game skillfully and win without any cheating.

Besides we have a manager that has won more silverware in the last 5 years than Harte has won in his 20 plus SFC career.

This just proves what's so funny to me - you are so bitter about ourselves you post this responding to me saying nothing bad about the Dublin team, simply suggesting 5/6 ways they could improve.

Yet we care nothing for your team. This isn't a rivalry for us. It's not a "can any team in Ireland take down Dublin" sort of scenario for ourselves like with other teams. It's an All Ireland final which is the big deal, the opposition rarely comes up amongst Tyrone fans.. You're not even close to being our rivals.

The_Honeybadger

Too many to mention tbh. Another way to ask the question is what Dublin players are the best in the game in their position at this stage. Off the top of my head I’d say McCarthy, McCaffery, Fenton and Kilkenny for sure, and maybe Mannion.

Dubs won’t agree, but a lot of the others are debateable, I think beggan is probably better than Cluxton now. Harrison is better than either Dublin corner. McManus is absolutely better than Rock etc. in fact if I was naming an All Ireland forward line Kilkenny would be the only Dublin player definitely on it tbh. I’d have to think about Mannion when you have McManus, Murphy, Mcbrearty, Clifford and others to pick from.

It’s the incredibly slick and seamless system Dublin play that makes them greater than the sum of their parts. There are lots of individual players on other teams that would improve the Dublin team if you brought them in.

rebel girl 15

The sly digs against other counties teams stops now please. This is a thread that could have some great discussion, but keep it on track please

Stoner

That not really the case Mickey imo

We are not talking about the best team in Ireland, just who'd make it into the Dublin team, not everyone fits in.

If you sub in too many players it's not a Dublin team anymore and this exercise would be to pick the top 15 players in their position in Ireland


Cluxton vs Beggan

Before we had Cluxton vs Clarke

This is partly due to people being sick of hearing about Cluxton, That's understandable.

But I don't hear anyone comparing Beggan to Clarke (the current two time all star)

Why not ?

People have substituted Beggan for Clarke not Beggan for Cluxton.

But neither is better for this Dublin team imo.

when teams try the pressure play on other keepers they've cracked too. Morgan vs Donegal and Clarke himself for the last 15 minutes of the AI. It's new territory for them, not all of them can handle being the center of attention. The situations teams have placed Cluxton in, no other keeper has had that focus on them

So Beggan might make 31 teams in Ireland ahead of Cluxton, but not this Dublin team as per the OP

You've made a standard Kerry type point around Dublin players being good system players rather than good footballers, I'd counter

That's a standard response to try to suggest that the Dublin players are just athletic, lacking skill.

Mannion, McManamon, Costello, O'Callahan, Kilkenny, Flynn, Brogan all have enough football in them to make the Kerry panel even within Kerry's system based on their football skill.

Indeed Mannion would fit in very well, Kerry would suit him more, Costello too imo

Would Dean Rock make another top 4 team if he couldn't take frees?
So to make Dublin better could you simply sub in a better free taker than Rock?

blanch152

Stoner wrote: »

That not really the case Mickey imo

We are not talking about the best team in Ireland, just who'd make it into the Dublin team, not everyone fits in.

If you sub in too many players it's not a Dublin team anymore and this exercise would be to pick the top 15 players in their position in Ireland


Cluxton vs Beggan

Before we had Cluxton vs Clarke

This is partly due to people being sick of hearing about Cluxton, That's understandable.

But I don't hear anyone comparing Beggan to Clarke (the current two time all star)

Why not ?

People have substituted Beggan for Clarke not Beggan for Cluxton.

But neither is better for this Dublin team imo.

when teams try the pressure play on other keepers they've cracked too. Morgan vs Donegal and Clarke himself for the last 15 minutes of the AI. It's new territory for them, not all of them can handle being the center of attention. The situations teams have placed Cluxton in, no other keeper has had that focus on them

So Beggan might make 31 teams in Ireland ahead of Cluxton, but not this Dublin team as per the OP

You've made a standard Kerry type point around Dublin players being good system players rather than good footballers, I'd counter

That's a standard response to try to suggest that the Dublin players are just athletic, lacking skill.

Mannion, McManamon, Costello, O'Callahan, Kilkenny, Flynn, Brogan all have enough football in them to make the Kerry panel even within Kerry's system based on their football skill.

Indeed Mannion would fit in very well, Kerry would suit him more, Costello too imo

Would Dean Rock make another top 4 team if he couldn't take frees?
So to make Dublin better could you simply sub in a better free taker than Rock?

Is there a better free-taker than Rock? You could pick six other forwards that might be better than Rock, but a better free-taker? I don't see one. If you are in the last minute of the All-Ireland final and you have one free to win the game for say Galway, do you want Clifford or Rock or McManus or O'Connor? Everytime I think about it, I come up with Rock.

Ditto Cluxton. Last minute of the All-Ireland final, you are a point down, you have to win the kick-out. Who do you want to take it? We already know Clarke choked in that situation, based on Sunday, I believe Beggan would too. Who are you left with? Cluxton again.

With forwards in general, Kilkenny, Costello, Mannion, Brogan, McMenamin, Connolly, Andrews, can all score off both feet. To get a place in the forward line, you have to be able to regularly score points off both feet. How many of the mooted replacements can do that?

The_Honeybadger

Stoner wrote: »

That not really the case Mickey imo

We are not talking about the best team in Ireland, just who'd make it into the Dublin team, not everyone fits in.

If you sub in too many players it's not a Dublin team anymore and this exercise would be to pick the top 15 players in their position in Ireland


Cluxton vs Beggan

Before we had Cluxton vs Clarke

This is partly due to people being sick of hearing about Cluxton, That's understandable, I was sick listening about Gooch.

But I don't hear anyone comparing Beggan to Clarke (the current two time all star)

Why not ?

IMO Beggan is better than Clarke.

People have substituted Beggan for Clarke not Beggan for Cluxton.

But neither is better for this Dublin team imo. Cluxton no longer takes long distance frees so that's not that much of a hole in Dublins game

The thing is that all the modern keepers are experiencing huge pressure on them, why ? because teams that want to beat Dublin decided to target the keeper, to a degree it worked.

People know that deep down, they are just dick to their teeth reading about Cluxton.

when teams try this on other keepers they've cracked too. Morgan vs Donegal and Clarke himself for the last 15 minutes of the AI. It's new territory for them, not all of them can handle being the center of attention. The situations teams have placed Cluxton in, no other keeper has had that focus, no other keeper was seen to be the key to a teams success.

So Beggan might make 31 teams in Ireland ahead of Cluxton, but not this Dublin team as per the OP

Beggan is the best long distance free taker I've ever seen.

You've made a standard Kerry type point around Dublin players being good system players rather than good footballers, I'd counter

That's a standard response to try to suggest that the Dublin players are just athletic, lacking skill. The Borg.

Mannion might not be a Michael Murphy, but neither are any of the Kerry forwards, Clifford looks great but again it's his first year we'd need to see his work ethic, however he looks like the real deal.

Mannion, McManamon, Costello, O'Callahan, Kilkenny, Flynn, Brogan all have enough football in them to make the Kerry panel even within Kerry's system based on their football skill.

Indeed Mannion would fit in very well, Kerry would suit him more, Costello too. Where as Paul Murphy would suit Dublin's style more etc. Moran suits Kerry football, and at the top of the scale so does Clifford.

Not everyone fits a style. McCaffery wouldn't fit some teams expectations at half back.

Would Dean Rock make another top 4 team if he couldn't take frees?
So to make Dublin better could you simply sub in a better free taker than Rock?

I think you are overthinking what I wrote tbh. There are a lot of players out there that would be very worthy of a spot on the Dublin team / panel is all I am saying. You can argue that certain lads might suit one team over the other and that’s fine, we’ll never know because we’ll never see it happen. If players like McHugh, Keegan, Geaney etc were from Dublin would a spot not be found for them? I think it almost certainly would.

On the system thing, I honestly wasn’t having a dig and I didn’t say they were system players rather than footballers.I think most of the starting Dublin 15 are among the top players in their positions but only a few are the out and out best. You can be an excellent footballer and still play to a system, it doesn’t have to be one or the other.

I do think it’s the coaching and system they use is what really separates them and makes them truly great as a team and I stand by that statement. The way Dublin attack and defend in numbers, use the wings to break down defences, refuse to run into tackles or give turnovers, only take high probability shots etc. has clearly taken years of meticulous coaching and work on the training ground.

Honest question. Do you think you’d be going for four in a row if you had an average manager who just did more or less what every other team is doing?

blanch152

mickeyk wrote: »

I think you are overthinking what I wrote tbh. There are a lot of players out there that would be very worthy of a spot on the Dublin team / panel is all I am saying. You can argue that certain lads might suit one team over the other and that’s fine, we’ll never know because we’ll never see it happen. If players like McHugh, Keegan, Geaney etc were from Dublin would a spot not be found for them? I think it almost certainly would.

On the system thing, I honestly wasn’t having a dig and I didn’t say they were system players rather than footballers.I think most of the starting Dublin 15 are among the top players in their positions but only a few are the out and out best. You can be an excellent footballer and still play to a system, it doesn’t have to be one or the other.

I do think it’s the coaching and system they use is what really separates them and makes them truly great as a team and I stand by that statement. The way Dublin attack and defend in numbers, use the wings to break down defences, refuse to run into tackles or give turnovers, only take high probability shots etc. has clearly taken years of meticulous coaching and work on the training ground.

Honest question. Do you think you’d be going for four in a row if you had an average manager who just did more or less what every other team is doing?

It is not just work on the training ground. It is the skill to kick off either foot, it is the innate intelligence on the football pitch. Most of that can't be taught.

The_Honeybadger

blanch152 wrote: »

Is there a better free-taker than Rock? You could pick six other forwards that might be better than Rock, but a better free-taker? I don't see one. If you are in the last minute of the All-Ireland final and you have one free to win the game for say Galway, do you want Clifford or Rock or McManus or O'Connor? Everytime I think about it, I come up with Rock.

Ditto Cluxton. Last minute of the All-Ireland final, you are a point down, you have to win the kick-out. Who do you want to take it? We already know Clarke choked in that situation, based on Sunday, I believe Beggan would too. Who are you left with? Cluxton again.

With forwards in general, Kilkenny, Costello, Mannion, Brogan, McMenamin, Connolly, Andrews, can all score off both feet. To get a place in the forward line, you have to be able to regularly score points off both feet. How many of the mooted replacements can do that?

Rock is the best free taker in football but he wouldn’t be worth carrying in a first 15 just for that if you have the likes of McManus and Mcbrearty to choose from. Agree that he is the man I’d want to kick a winning free in any situation.

Most top forwards can score off both feet and several of the lads you’ve listed there don’t even start for Dublin now. I can’t agree that there aren’t better forwards out there than some of them at this stage because there absolutely are. As fans we tend to put our own players on pedestals, especially when they are as successful as some of the above.

The_Honeybadger

blanch152 wrote: »

It is not just work on the training ground. It is the skill to kick off either foot, it is the innate intelligence on the football pitch. Most of that can't be taught.

Most good inter county footballers can kick off both feet, it’s not unique to Dublin.

Yes you have intelligent footballers but so do other teams. Gavins meticulousness on the training ground is well documented. One former player called it an ‘obsession’ after ye got caught by Donegal in 2014. It’s a massive factor in the current teams success and something to be proud of rather than take offence to.

PARlance

I'm fairly sure I could take O'Gara's spot.

GalwayLurker

No mention of Ian Burke, probably the most intelligent player in the game at the moment.

The_Honeybadger

GalwayLurker wrote: »

No mention of Ian Burke, probably the most intelligent player in the game at the moment.

Agreed. Would make any team in the country, as would Shane Walsh

aidan24326

GalwayLurker wrote: »

No mention of Ian Burke, probably the most intelligent player in the game at the moment.

Surprised it took so long for anyone to mention him. He is one of the few forwards that would have the skill and composure to fit into this Dublin team and actually be an addition. I think he'd excel.

McManus is a class footballer but Rock already kicks the frees and with Dublin he wouldn't always be the go-to guy like he is for Monaghan.

Stoner

mickeyk wrote:

Honest question. Do you think you’d be going for four in a row if you had an average manager who just did more or less what every other team is doing?

No

If the thread was named

Pick the top 15 football players in Ireland

Would you have approached it any differently?

You are naming lads like Geaney
He might be very good but he might also not be the best for Dublin. I don't think he'd improve Dublin significantly even though he might make the top 15 team ahead of Dublin starters
Morley might improve Dublin more.

M Murphy would knock Rock right out of the team and he'd be a massive improvement and you'd keep your free taking ability and add in tackling, fielding etc

For example Kerry could do with McCarthy more so than Mayo.

And Mannion would suit Mayo's style more than Kerry's

Anyway I'm off on a long drive now, I'll leave it at that

The_Honeybadger

Stoner wrote: »

No

If the thread was named

Pick the top 15 football players in Ireland

Would you have approached it any differently?

You are naming lads like Geaney
He might be very good but he might also not be the best for Dublin. I don't think he'd improve Dublin significantly even though he might make the top 15 team ahead of Dublin starters
Morley might improve Dublin more.

M Murphy would knock Rock right out of the team and he'd be a massive improvement and you'd keep your free taking ability and add in tackling, fielding etc

For example Kerry could do with McCarthy more so than Mayo.

And Mannion would suit Mayo's style more than Kerry's

Anyway I'm off on a long drive now, I'll leave it at that

Thread title is players from other counties that would make the Dublin first 15, so I really don’t see what is wrong with what I’m saying.

I also don’t see why Geaney wouldn’t suit Dublin. He does a lot of the things Andrews and O’Gara do and would be a a lot more prolific around the D off both feet. Dubs can scoff and say you can keep him and whatever, but fans don’t pick the team and I happen to think Gavin would have him every day if the week.

There are lots of others you could argue for and against as well, you have named a lot of them yourself a few pages back I think, and it’s ok that we might have different views on certain players.

The Talking Bread

Give it two years and a bit of maturity and Daniel Flynn will be worthy of at least a squad place

Kevin Feely ditto

Not that I'm in anyway bias !!

Heffoman

AGC wrote: »

Brody?! Why?

Just because a fella is noticed because he starts trying to run the pitch does not make him a good keeper. 50 minutes of publicity against Dublin would also not warrant him to be a better keeper than cluxton.

He is a good keeper and will only improve but wouldn’t be in the Dublin starting 15.

As a Dub I would have a fit McBrearty all day long. Class act.

This is a problem with people only seeing the top teams and not the other smaller games. Graham Brody is probably the best keeper this year but very little have seen him.

His display against Monaghan was one of the best goal keeping displays in years.

Gael85

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Give it two years and a bit of maturity and Daniel Flynn will be worthy of at least a squad place

Kevin Feely ditto

Not that I'm in anyway bias !!

Daniel Flynn has similar attributes to Connolly. Comfortable on ball and can kick with both feet. Decision making be poor at times but he will improve on that.

Squareball

Stoner wrote: »

dobman88 wrote:

That kick was to draw the game. I was only 14 but i was at it with my Dad, down in the opposite corner but seeing the ball just drop over was a beautiful sight. Remember Vinny Murphy coming on for the Dubs and giving the entire team and support a massive lift. After being up by loads, we got out of jail that day.

You are 100% correct.

All the old Northsiders came on!


Sherlock fed Vinnie (he'd very fast hands, great passer in the box)

The old guys pulled it out of the fire

I think Na Fianna were county champions but couldn't get a starting place on the team for silly reasons

Everyone knew Kerry would win the replay, infairness to BS it was really a loss

Silly reasons??........All their good players were from outside Dublin.

AGC

Heffoman wrote: »

This is a problem with people only seeing the top teams and not the other smaller games. Graham Brody is probably the best keeper this year but very little have seen him.

His display against Monaghan was one of the best goal keeping displays in years.

I’ve seen him quite a bit of Brody this year and as I said he is a good keeper and will be a very good keeper but he is still not at Cluxton levels.

Will be nominated for an all star but won’t win.

FrancieBrady

AGC wrote: »

I’ve seen him quite a bit of Brody this year and as I said he is a good keeper and will be a very good keeper but he is still not at Cluxton levels.

Will be nominated for an all star but won’t win.

TBH that guy while a good enough keeper is a disaster waiting to happen and probably in a critical game.

Our own goalie does it too (Beggan) and it is white knuckle time when he does.

keeponhurling

If eligibility for the Dubs team was opened up to all,

Dubs that would certainly keep their place on the team: Cooper, McCaffrey, Fenton, Kilkenny

Dubs that might keep their place: Cluxton, O'Sullivan, McCarthy, Rock, Mannion

Certainties to get on the team: Keegan, M.Murphy, McManus

It's quite subjective.
McBrearty, McHugh, Cavanagh, C.O'Connor, Harte, Beggan, Moran and more could all make a strong case.

Danjamin1

keeponhurling wrote: »

If eligibility for the Dubs team was opened up to all,

Dubs that would certainly keep their place on the team: Cooper, McCaffrey, Fenton, Kilkenny

Dubs that might keep their place: Cluxton, O'Sullivan, McCarthy, Rock, Mannion

Certainties to get on the team: Keegan, M.Murphy, McManus

It's quite subjective.
McBrearty, McHugh, Cavanagh, C.O'Connor, Harte, Beggan, Moran and more could all make a strong case.

You lost me at C. O’Connor. He’s a bottler and a dirty fecker to boot.

Say Your Number

Rory Grugan from Armagh, Gary Brennan from Clare and Niall Murphy of Sligo would have a decent chance of making it.

Heffoman

AGC wrote: »

I’ve seen him quite a bit of Brody this year and as I said he is a good keeper and will be a very good keeper but he is still not at Cluxton levels.

Will be nominated for an all star but won’t win.

He wont have a hope of winning because frankly he hasnt been in enough televised games and little have seen of him.

He has been better than Cluxton this year in my opinion. He has been immense for Laois. In the game against Monaghan alone he made 5-6 exceptional saves which is probably more saves than Cluxton has made in the entire championship this year due to Dublin dominence.

Stoner

PARlance wrote:

I'm fairly sure I could take O'Gara's spot.

You'd curse us

Hulk Hands

ProudDUB wrote: »

Damien Comer? Not a chance.

The others are all good shouts.

Has an opposing player caused Dublin as much bother as Comer in recent years? Directly accountable for 6 points in the league final (3 scored, 3 tap over frees), and 1-1 the last day while also winning a penalty and a scored free, so potentially 8 points. Accounted for another 2 in the 20 mins he played in the game in Salthill. All this off very little and limited ball put into him. It's not the same as whether he'd make the team, personally I think he'd walk on but someone like Ian Burke would suit the Dubs style of play far better. Not sure Philly will forget about Comer for a while however

seligehgit

Danjamin1 wrote: »

You lost me at C. O’Connor. He’s a bottler and a dirty fecker to boot.

Pretty mean spirited post.

There is some quantity of what you judge to be bottlers considering there can be only one ultimate winner.Truly hope he proves the naysayers wrong some day.

No doubting he has a significant disciplinary problem like others but does every post have to throw him under the bus re same.

Reverting back to the topic at hand,on current form he certainly wouldn't make the first 15.

Danjamin1

seligehgit wrote: »

Pretty mean spirited post.

There is some quantity of what you judge to be bottlers considering there can be only one ultimate winner.Truly hope he proves the naysayers wrong some day.

No doubting he has a significant disciplinary problem like others but does every post have to throw him under the bus re same.

Reverting back to the topic at hand,on current form he certainly wouldn't make the first 15.

Nothing mean spirited at all, I don’t rate Cillian O’Connor and consider him a dirty player. Same for his brother Diarmuid. I’d take Lee Keegan in my team no bother. Don’t particularly like him but can’t argue with his talent. Not sure who he’d displace but he’d certainly be pushing for a place.

ProudDUB

Cillian O'Connor wouldn't make it. We already have a pretty decent free taker & a more reliable one at that. We don't need another one. He doesn't really bring any other notable attributes to the table (especially pace) to merit inclusion.

Joe Don Dante

Fran Jordan