Women who are "not maternal" having kids

professore

This is one I've seen a lot. Women who say they aren't maternal having kids. Why would you have kids if you're not maternal? At least for a man who isn't paternal he doesn't have to go through 9 months of pregnancy etc and often will do it for his wife's sake because she wants kids. And while dads are important despite what we like to think the mother has a huge influence on her kids, that can't be replaced. So putting them last is very damaging.

Do non maternal women do it for other people's sake? Is it pure animal desire to reproduce? Or what is the reason?

Hector Bellend

professore wrote: »

This is one I've seen a lot. Women who say they aren't maternal having kids. Why would you have kids if you're not maternal? At least for a man who isn't paternal he doesn't have to go through 9 months of pregnancy etc and often will do it for his wife's sake because she wants kids. And while dads are important despite what we like to think the mother has a huge influence on her kids. So putting them last is very damaging.

Do non maternal women do it for other people's sake? Is it pure animal desire to reproduce? Or what is the reason?

Wheel a pram into a room full of women and see who isnt "maternal"


The vast majority will cream their undies

professore

Bluestone100 wrote: »

Perhaps fear of being forgotten, of being old and lonely and irrelevant.

The thing is if you are cold to your kids you won't be forgotten - you'll be resented and quite possibly shunned when they grow up.

.......

professore wrote: »

Do non maternal women do it for other people's sake? Is it pure animal desire to reproduce? Or what is the reason?

Up to recently abortion was illegal in Ireland and no contraception is 100% effective.

Edgware

....... wrote: »

Up to recently abortion was illegal in Ireland and no contraception is 100% effective.

Abortion is still illegal

professore

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Wheel a pram into a room full of women and see who isnt "maternal"


The vast majority will cream their undies

True but some women(a small minority but not insignificant, I know a few of them) have no interest in babies and are horrible to their kids, they see them as a hindrance to their social life. Maybe it's just mental illness.

professore

....... wrote: »

Up to recently abortion was illegal in Ireland and no contraception is 100% effective.

I don't buy that, some of the women I know consciously had several children.

Hector Bellend

professore wrote: »

True but some women(a small minority but not insignificant, I know a few of them) have no interest in babies and are horrible to their kids, they see them as a hindrance to their social life. Maybe it's just mental illness.

But they have kids.

Why didnt they pack rubber so to speak

.......

professore wrote: »

I don't buy that, some of the women I know consciously had several children.

My mother didnt want kids, her mother didnt, maybe I come from a long line of women who didnt want kids and Im the first to be able to exercise enough control over my body AND be accepted in society for not having them.

Contraception wasnt widely available in Ireland until the 90s and even then some doctors wouldnt prescribe the pill unless you were married.

No abortion, no roles for women in society if they werent wives and mothers.

I look around now and see it changing, I dont have kids, nor do some of my friends (not all by choice), but women certainly have choices now that they didnt have even 25 years ago.

silverharp

professore wrote: »

True but some women(a small minority but not insignificant, I know a few of them) have no interest in babies and are horrible to their kids, they see them as a hindrance to their social life. Maybe it's just mental illness.

i'd know a lot of couples but i never got the impression that any of the mothers saw their kids as a problem. what kind of poor schmucks are they with? from the male perspective if you are going to settle down and create a family wouldnt you screen out women who you guage would not make good mothers

DaeryssaOne

Probably because even though they're not maternal they feel a pressure from society / family / husband that having kids is the next 'box to tick' so to speak.

I'm not pushed about having kids myself but can also feel the pressure where I am the only one left of a big group of friends that's not and it can almost feel like you're stagnating if you don't take the next step and have a family.

By the way in response to that (disgusting) comment above about a pram being wheeled into a room - I would try to find the exit if I'm honest. Now....bring a kitten or puppy into a room and that's very different!

sbsquarepants

professore wrote: »

Do non maternal women do it for other people's sake? Is it pure animal desire to reproduce? Or what is the reason?

Some do it to get a house and a good night out every 1st Tuesday of the month:)

PlaneSpeeking

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Wheel a pram into a room full of women and see who isnt "maternal"


The vast majority will cream their undies

Thankfully not all of us!

Said at 14 I didn't want kids. Put up with decades of "ah you'll change your mind"; "don't you want one of those ?"; "it's not natural to not want kids".

Etc etc

Hate kids, don't want em and don't want to be around them. People who don't want them should stand their ground and not have them.

I don't see a plus in having an unwanted child.

professore

....... wrote: »

My mother didnt want kids, her mother didnt, maybe I come from a long line of women who didnt want kids and Im the first to be able to exercise enough control over my body AND be accepted in society for not having them.

Contraception wasnt widely available in Ireland until the 90s and even then some doctors wouldnt prescribe the pill unless you were married.

No abortion, no roles for women in society if they werent wives and mothers.

I look around now and see it changing, I dont have kids, nor do some of my friends (not all by choice), but women certainly have choices now that they didnt have even 25 years ago.

So socal acceptance. I get that. However there are still some having kids and it's far more socially acceptable now, and plenty of contraception available.

professore

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Thankfully not all of us!

Said at 14 I didn't want kids. Put up with decades of "ah you'll change your mind"; "don't you want one of those ?"; "it's not natural to not want kids".

Etc etc

Hate kids, don't want em and don't want to be around them. People who don't want them should stand their ground and not have them.

I don't see a plus in having an unwanted child.

See this would be the sensible attitude IMO.

PlaneSpeeking

DaeryssaOne wrote: »

Probably because even though they're not maternal they feel a pressure from society / family / husband that having kids is the next 'box to tick' so to speak.

I'm not pushed about having kids myself but can also feel the pressure where I am the only one left of a big group of friends that's not and it can almost feel like you're stagnating if you don't take the next step and have a family.

By the way in response to that (disgusting) comment above about a pram being wheeled into a room - I would try to find the exit if I'm honest. Now....bring a kitten or puppy into a room and that's very different!

Actually had a situation years ago where a colleague brought her newborn in and one of the other staff brought his Weimeraner puppy in.

12 one way - me the other!!!!!

professore

It appears to me like a box ticking exercise, I have the house with the big mortgage and the kitchen island , the husband with a sensible career, and two kids that match the decor, I've got it made!

That's what I see mainly. If the kids do well in school it's bragging rights but there is no love or affection there.

seamus

"Not maternal" just means that taking care of children doesn't come naturally to them. It doesn't mean that they don't like or want kids.

For the most part, women who are "maternal" just have experience of it; they've experience in younger years of minding kids.

PlaneSpeeking

seamus wrote: »

"Not maternal" just means that taking care of children doesn't come naturally to them. It doesn't mean that they don't like or want kids.

For the most part, women who are "maternal" just have experience of it; they've experience in younger years of minding kids.

It's not as black and white as that.

You cannot speak for all women. I could easily take care of a child, I simply have zero desire to.

You are doing a disservice to many women by saying that when we say we don't like children we are lying and the real reason is we're not up the job.

Shame on you.

seamus

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

It's not as black and white as that.

You cannot speak for all women. I could easily take care of a child, I simply have zero desire to.

You are doing a disservice to many women by saying that when we say we don't like children we are lying and the real reason is we're not up the job.

Shame on you.

I...didn't.

Maybe re-read my post and you'll see that this terrible insult isn't there?

.......

professore wrote: »

So socal acceptance. I get that. However there are still some having kids and it's far more socially acceptable now, and plenty of contraception available.

Agreed.

I see far more men who had no interest in children having them and being quite miserable disinterested fathers - for the first few years anyway.

neonsofa

I have found that a lot of people really want a baby. They are broody for a cute baby but kind of ignore the fact that the baby is a developing human.

PlaneSpeeking

seamus wrote: »

I...didn't.

Maybe re-read my post and you'll see that this terrible insult isn't there?

I'm looking right at the post and it very much is.

"... doesn't come naturally to them... rather than "don't like or want kids".

How hard is it to accept many women do not like children ?

PlaneSpeeking

neonsofa wrote: »

I have found that a lot of people really want a baby. They are broody for a cute baby but kind of ignore the fact that the baby is a developing human.

Ah the "I want a little princess to dress up" or "I want a little soldier to be just like me".

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

pickarooney

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I'm looking right at the post and it very much is.

"... doesn't come naturally to them... rather than "don't like or want kids".

How hard is it to accept many women do not like children ?

He also didn't say that 'non-maternal' women do want kids. If you're picking that up it's more on your interpretation or predisposition to find offence than anything explicit in the text.

seamus

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

How hard is it to accept many women do not like children ?

I didn't say otherwise.

The OP questioned why a "not maternal" woman would have children. I'm simply saying that just because a woman is "not maternal", doesn't mean she doesn't want kids.

There are lots of women who are "maternal", great with kids and child-rearing comes naturally to them, who have no interest in having kids of their own.

"maternal" and "not maternal" when used to describe someone's character, is nothing to do with whether someone wants kids, and I've never heard it used that way.

Malayalam

seamus wrote: »

"Not maternal" just means that taking care of children doesn't come naturally to them. It doesn't mean that they don't like or want kids.

For the most part, women who are "maternal" just have experience of it; they've experience in younger years of minding kids.

Yeah, i agree with that. I am the oldest of a big family, always maternal due to conditioning probably, raising kids since I was 4. But I think some of the mothers being cold to their kids is post facto. It's not that they have children despite being 'not maternal', like ticking off some box or other - its that they have children without thinking too much about it and then afterwards discover that squelching their own selfishness or grumpiness or controlling personalities is too much of an effort and they just don't do it and are non maternal post facto. It's also part of a narcissistic generation/culture where some - post childbirth - find it hard to shift the focus off themselves and onto a dependent child for the years required to raise them. Pity for the kids who have to vie for attention with the black scrying mirror of a smart phone.

Malayalam

neonsofa wrote: »

I have found that a lot of people really want a baby. They are broody for a cute baby but kind of ignore the fact that the baby is a developing human.

Thats true too. When the cute baby develops a contrary will it brings up a lot of subconscious animus in some mothers.

Girlfriend hates kids and while she liked her nephew at 6 months, she can't be arsed with him now at a year and a half. She loves him but doesn't like babysitting him at all. I'm much the same and am glad it will never happen since we found out she can't anyway.

Shenshen

My best guess is social pressure. And to some extend, living in denial.

I'm mostly basing that on my own mother, to be honest. She grew up with the notion that to have a good life as a woman, you marry and have children. And then you'll be happy.
She fully internalised that, I don't think she ever questioned this narrative until much, much later in her life. At which point she already had 3 children, but the promised happiness was just not materialising.

I don't believe that she at any point took enough time for herself to reflect that maybe she wasn't maternal, and maybe having children wouldn't increase her happiness in life, let alone that it may be detrimental to the children themselves. It certainly doesn't help that anytime you mention not particularly liking kids, the response you'll get from most people will be "Ah, but that'll be different once they're your own!". Of course, by the time you find out that they're talking out their arses, you already have the children. And children are non-returnable.

I believe many women to this day fall for the same fairy-tale that we have repeated at us ad nauseam until we exit child-bearing age.

neonsofa

Malayalam wrote: »

Yeah, i agree with that. I am the oldest of a big family, always maternal due to conditioning probably, raising kids since I was 4. But I think some of the mothers being cold to their kids is post facto. It's not that they have children despite being 'not maternal', like ticking off some box or other - its that they have children without thinking too much about it and then afterwards discover that squelching their own selfishness or grumpiness or controlling personalities is too much of an effort and they just don't do it and are non maternal post facto. It's also part of a narcissistic generation/culture where some - post childbirth - find it hard to shift the focus off themselves and onto a dependent child for the years required to raise them. Pity for the kids who have to vie for attention with the black scrying mirror of a smart phone.

This is very true. I never realised just how difficult and overwhelming parenting can be until I did it myself. I love minding kids, especially babies, but being fully responsible for a person without being able to hand them back to someone else is an entirely different thing, and some people just don't realise that until they are in it. Also, after a few years of that constant responsibility you can just become jaded. I feel the need to add that I am a loving parent despite how the above sounds :pac:

Lorelli!

It could be any reason. Maybe they said they're not maternal and changed, maybe they were always maternal but just said that in conversation, maybe they werent in the situation were they felt they could have a child but then their circumstances changed and they reconsidered, maybe contraception failed them or they didn't use it in the moment and are now happy to continue the pregnancy, maybe they did succumb to what they felt were social pressures etc.

Malayalam

neonsofa wrote: »

This is very true. I never realised just how difficult and overwhelming parenting can be until I did it myself. I love minding kids, especially babies, but being fully responsible for a person without being able to hand them back to someone else is an entirely different thing, and some people just don't realise that until they are in it. Also, after a few years of that constant responsibility you can just become jaded. I feel the need to add that I am a loving parent despite how the above sounds :pac:

Haha yeah, it's a big ask to be a parent. What you feel is normal. I think people should really seriously think about it first - which I admit I didn't! I had my children very young and totally got submerged in rearing them, and I truly loved the whole thing. But I could not do it again. Nuh-huh, no way, it would be impossible to contemplate. It's incredibly tiring, yes you become jaded from it. You are never done with the worrying for them (and that doesn't stop ever). You have to put them first, you are responsible for this entirely dependent human life. And I'm far, FAR, far too selfish for all that now

valoren

Time.

We men don't pay attention to it. We can have physically have children into our old age.

For women, time becomes a factor. If a woman has no maternal instincts at all she would implicitly know that if she ever wanted children then there is a limited biological window in which to do so. I've always thought that intelligence is the ability to change. So while a woman in her 20's might not feel maternal or even like children, when she eventually reaches her 30's and early 40's the menopause is encroaching and once it happens that's it. There is that biological finality, that implicit cut-off point that may sway non-maternal women to override their instinctive attitude and just get it done while having the ability to do so. Who knows? They might even change and love it after all.

Edgware

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Wheel a pram into a room full of women and see who isnt "maternal"


The vast majority will cream their undies

So that's why the chairs are sticky after my aunts visit

Bredabe

Edgware wrote: »

Abortion is still illegal

We'll see today, how much longer it will be illegal in statute too.

Cleopatra_

I never felt the remotest urge to have kids until the last year or so. I just turned 30 recently. I feel a bit broody but I have a wife who has no interest whatsoever and a body that's most likely too ill to get pregnant or carry a child and even if I had one, there's a high chance I wouldn't see it live to adulthood and there's a risk of passing on my defective genes.

Maybe that's why I have these broody feelings now, because I know it's an impossible fantasy. I definitely have those notions about what it would be like to be pregnant or to have a little baby. Though toddlers and kids just sound like a complete nightmare.

Then again I think about how I can have a lie in whenever I want, go on a date or holiday with the missus whenever, all of the freedom and lack of responsibility. No tiny person hanging off me screaming and crying and growing up to hate and resent me one day.

PlaneSpeeking

Oh I will say that should one of the lovely gay couples I'm pals with want to use the old uterus - they're welcome!

denismc

While I can understand people not wanting kids, I don't get people that say they hate children.
Children are people like everyone else, o.k they scream and shout and poop in their pants but they really can't help this.
To say you hate or dislike children suggests a lack of empathy to me, we were all kids once!

Minderbinder

Lorelli! wrote: »

It could be any reason. Maybe they said they're not maternal and changed, maybe they were always maternal but just said that in conversation, maybe they werent in the situation were they felt they could have a child but then their circumstances changed and they reconsidered, maybe contraception failed them or they didn't use it in the moment and are now happy to continue the pregnancy, maybe they did succumb to what they felt were social pressures etc.

Definitely if a couple are finding it hard to conceive, it’s a lot easier for them to say they’re not bothered about kids rather than face repeated questions about when they’re going to have a baby.

Some couples probably find it offensive to be asked when they’re going to have kids.

I don’t think that simply stating one is not maternal is necessarily proof of it though. I’ve seen some women who say they are maternal but they just don’t look like a mother in the sense that we think of it. But often the really natural mother types may not be very good at raising a child to be independent and successful adults, and rather their parental style is instinctively selfish in terms of raising the child to love its mother above all else, ensuring that the child will look after its mother in old age.

.......

denismc wrote: »

While I can understand people not wanting kids, I don't get people that say they hate children.
Children are people like everyone else, o.k they scream and shout and poop in their pants but they really can't help this.
To say you hate or dislike children suggests a lack of empathy to me, we were all kids once!

I dont like being around kids.

I will go for adult only hotels away, I try to holiday at times when children are in school and generally speaking I would avoid places where there might be a lot of kids.

Its nothing to do with empathy. I would help a lost child or an injured child or whatever. I simply prefer to holiday in peace and to be in places where Im not being disturbed by kids screaming all the time.

Bredabe

Before I got my kids I was under immense pressure to marry my partner(or not) and pop out beautiful babies(partner was Pearse Brosnan look alike) coming from a long line of business women who didn't want to be married let alone have kids forced on them, I could see it wasn't for me, far far too adventurous to have to be home for this and that or cook every single day, forced to do these things I knew I would end up as ratty and dissatisfied as my mother had been.

The names I was called and the comments made in my hearing over this topic were just unreal and possibly cruel. As the ppl saying these things didn't know if there was an underlying reason for my apparent childlessness. Like the other poster said when a baby arrives into where I am, only good manners make me stay and comment on how like granny/daddy/the dog the child is.

I occasionally have children from difficult home situations stay with me for a few weeks timetable allowing, that satisfies any maternal craving that is part of my protective streak. Lots of ppl should just get on with their lives and not be bothered about other ppls child related status.

When I work in Ireland, I dread the questions about children and the comments about how I'm going to be lonely when Im old' etc, when I work in London, most don't ask and if they do, no one comments.

Lorelli!

Minderbinder wrote: »

Definitely if a couple are finding it hard to conceive, it’s a lot easier for them to say they’re not bothered about kids rather than face repeated questions about when they’re going to have a baby.

Some couples probably find it offensive to be asked when they’re going to have kids.

I don’t think that simply stating one is not maternal is necessarily proof of it though. I’ve seen some women who say they are maternal but they just don’t look like a mother in the sense that we think of it. But often the really natural mother types may not be very good at raising a child to be independent and successful adults, and rather their parental style is instinctively selfish in terms of raising the child to love its mother above all else, ensuring that the child will look after its mother in old age.

ye like I said it could be a number of reasons but i am not dismissing that some women are not maternal and will never want or have children either and thats fine.

Best to take people at face value with what they say and if they seem to do a 180 on that, then unless there are some sort of valid concerns, there's no need to pry.

BuboBubo

When I was in my twenties I thought having children was something I would want when I got older (also thought when you get older, you'd suddenly like Irish country music, sure all the older wans do - I still loathe it!)

If people are pushing out babies because that's what society wants, that's very sad. I know kids who aren't particularly wanted - it's not nice to witness, and must be psychologically dreadful for the kids themselves.

I'm happily childfree, married, in my mid 40's, and feel I've dodged a major bullet parent-wise.

If someone presents a baby to me, I just act polite, but distant, no big "oooh it's soooo cute" act etc. I have zero interest. They equate to sh1tty nappies and hardship imo.

pickarooney

....... wrote: »

I dont like being around kids.

I will go for adult only hotels away, I try to holiday at times when children are in school and generally speaking I would avoid places where there might be a lot of kids.

Its nothing to do with empathy. I would help a lost child or an injured child or whatever. I simply prefer to holiday in peace and to be in places where Im not being disturbed by kids screaming all the time.

Yeah, exactly. That's not hating kids. People tend to say 'I hate kids' as shorthand for 'I hate mess, noise, constant interruption, the overwhelming sense of having to be on guard at all times etc.' which is perfectly normal. Very few people mean it literally, but it's a turn of phrase that we don't accept when used for other groups of people.

Except students. And lawyers.

pickarooney

Bredabe wrote: »

The names I was called and the comments made in my hearing over this topic were just unreal and possibly cruel.

For a minute I thought you'd actually been brought to trial for the crime of not wanting beautiful babies. I was thinking it was a little harsh!

Shenshen

denismc wrote: »

While I can understand people not wanting kids, I don't get people that say they hate children.
Children are people like everyone else, o.k they scream and shout and poop in their pants but they really can't help this.
To say you hate or dislike children suggests a lack of empathy to me, we were all kids once!

And we all grew out of it. Well, most of us.
I don't find it that hard to believe that people dislike the noise, mess, smell and general drain on your energy that comes with children. Some people prefer not to be around that.

I can't imagine they would mean them harm, they just don't want any interaction with them.

And to say that children are just people like adults seems to be naive at best. They're not, nor should they be, to be honest.

seamus

....... wrote: »

I dont like being around kids.

I will go for adult only hotels away, I try to holiday at times when children are in school and generally speaking I would avoid places where there might be a lot of kids.

That's not unreasonable. Most parents probably feel the same

I think the man below is talking about people who claim to "hate" kids though. The kind of people who'll roll their eyes if a family appears in their vision or will go online to rant about children in public places.

It's like people who claim to "hate" certain animals. Being afraid of them is fine, being somewhat "meh" about them is also fine. But "hate" is such a bizarre and strong feeling to have about something non-specific, like children.

denismc wrote: »

While I can understand people not wanting kids, I don't get people that say they hate children.
Children are people like everyone else, o.k they scream and shout and poop in their pants but they really can't help this.
To say you hate or dislike children suggests a lack of empathy to me, we were all kids once!

Malayalam

Bredabe wrote: »

Before I got my kids I was under immense pressure to marry my partner(or not) and pop out beautiful babies(partner was Pearse Brosnan look alike) coming from a long line of business women who didn't want to be married let alone have kids forced on them, I could see it wasn't for me, far far too adventurous to have to be home for this and that or cook every single day, forced to do these things I knew I would end up as ratty and dissatisfied as my mother had been.

The names I was called and the comments made in my hearing over this topic were just unreal and possibly cruel. As the ppl saying these things didn't know if there was an underlying reason for my apparent childlessness. Like the other poster said when a baby arrives into where I am, only good manners make me stay and comment on how like granny/daddy/the dog the child is.

I occasionally have children from difficult home situations stay with me for a few weeks timetable allowing, that satisfies any maternal craving that is part of my protective streak. Lots of ppl should just get on with their lives and not be bothered about other ppls child related status.

When I work in Ireland, I dread the questions about children and the comments about how I'm going to be lonely when Im old' etc, when I work in London, most don't ask and if they do, no one comments.

That's really mean of people to say or even think bad things about your decisions, people can be real assholes. That's horrible for you. Ignore them completely. It's amazing the crap that comes out of some people's mouths. People say horrible stuff about loads of things, though - I have been called autistic more than once as a purposeful insult to my face because I am introverted and have different interests than usual. Or weird. Or away with the fairies. Etc. Some people say mean crap, God love them, they cannot be happy in themselves - avoid those particular eegits.

LAZYIRISH

seamus wrote: »

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

How hard is it to accept many women do not like children ?

I didn't say otherwise.

The OP questioned why a "not maternal" woman would have children. I'm simply saying that just because a woman is "not maternal", doesn't mean she doesn't want kids.

There are lots of women who are "maternal", great with kids and child-rearing comes naturally to them, who have no interest in having kids of their own.

"maternal" and "not maternal" when used to describe someone's character, is nothing to do with whether someone wants kids, and I've never heard it used that way.

My best friend is how you described she is our local Mary poppins haha mighty with kids and kids adore her ! She works in childcare also but has no desire to have any of her own . As for me I was always around young children growing up from age 11 I was minding my cousins, a 6month old and 2 year old albeit my aunt was around but she had work on the farm and at weekends I'd stay over so my uncle&aunt could go to the local &yes I did change ****ty nappies at that age too was well able !

BarryD2

Bluestone100 wrote: »

Perhaps fear of being forgotten, of being old and lonely and irrelevant.

Except that in the modern world, families are more likely to live distantly and it is quite possible that parents will be old & lonely. And we'll all certainly be irrelevant.