NEW 2018 Assistant Principal Officer Competition

Enova

Oh yes, sorry, showing my confidence there re. the form!
Yes, assuming candidates get through the form stage the rest applies.

Sbibii121

Good luck everyone going forward

Didn't get through this time failed the numerical below 40 (spent too long on answers). got 59 on situational and 50 on verbal ...

The experience has stood to me as I'm in the AO competition and just did a EO supervised n & v and etray. Massive difference in pay grades but glad I've tried out.

Out of interest do they run AP competitions every year or once the panel runs it course in 2020?

Sbibii121

Good luck everyone going forward

Didn't get through this time failed the numerical below 40 (spent too long on answers). got 59 on situational and 50 on verbal ...

The experience has stood to me as I'm in the AO competition and just did a EO supervised n & v and etray. Massive difference in pay grades but glad I've tried out.

Out of interest do they run AP competitions every year or once the panel runs it course in 2020?

Good luck all.

ammg

Got 113. Hanging in for Galway Mayo stage 2. Failed the interview the last time.

Max Mustermann

norahcam wrote: »

Sfc1895 you may have missed this cut but there will be alot weeded out in shortlisting. I didn't do as well as I thought on situational although I have feedback from staff and manager that my interpersonal and leadership skills are strong. So hopefully the bar will drop a bit and will get chance to demonstrate this at interview. I reckonanyone over 100 should be in with an even chance.

I'm not so sure that they will get down to 100 given that they only got to the 1500s OOM in 22 months on the 2016 competition. That would be a score of 107 or maybe 106 on this competition. Unless there's a greater number of vacancies, I don't see why they would need to process a greater number of candidates. I'm a few points below 106/ 107 myself and I don't want to dash anyone's hopes so Im hoping to be convinced otherwise.
Congratulations and best of luck to all that were called to Stage 2.

RiseToMe

116 and in the 700s and Dublin was 1st choice so we'll see if I make it through shortlisting. With those figures I can't imagine a placement coming through tho!

tigger123

Max Mustermann wrote: »

I'm not so sure that they will get down to 100 given that they only got to the 1500s OOM in 22 months on the 2016 competition. That would be a score of 107 or maybe 106 on this competition. Unless there's a greater number of vacancies, I don't see why they would need to process a greater number of candidates. I'm a few points below 106/ 107 myself and I don't want to dash anyone's hopes so Im hoping to be convinced otherwise.
Congratulations and best of luck to all that were called to Stage 2.

The process is different this time round though.

It seems they'll be shortlisting candidates based upon their application form before Stage 2. This means that those who have a high score but lack the relevant experience will be knocked out sooner, meaning that lower scored candidates will be bumped up.

AGC

tigger123 wrote: »

The process is different this time round though.

It seems they'll be shortlisting candidates based upon their application form before Stage 2. This means that those who have a high score but lack the relevant experience will be knocked out sooner, meaning that lower scored candidates will be bumped up.

But that doesn’t mean that they go lower down the OOM for the next batch to be called if they are going to call another batch.

Out of the 900 odd called in batch 1 I would expect they have a quota on how many will be called to the etray/re tests?

The_Conductor

nazzy wrote: »

I've 115. OOM is 816 Open and 516 Inter-D.

So I'd say 114 on Inter D is around 590s?

I got 113- and I'm 606 on the Interdepartmental (and 961 on the open).

So there are 145 people on 113 or 114 on the open, and 90 on 113 or 114 in the interdepartmental.

If there is a similar spread across both panels- it infers roughly 2/3 of open candidates are serving civil servants- and 1/3 from the private sector- which is a big jump on private sector applications from the last time round.

tigger123

AGC wrote: »

But that doesn’t mean that they go lower down the OOM for the next batch to be called if they are going to call another batch.

Out of the 900 odd called in batch 1 I would expect they have a quota on how many will be called to the etray/re tests?

I would interpret that it does mean they'll go lower down the OOM than they did on the last competiton. The reason being that the shortlisting based on the application form didn't happen until a later stage in the previous competition (if it happened at all).

But this time, the shortlisting seems to be happening after Stage 1. So it's quite conceivable that someone finished ahead of you (or I) in the OOM, their application form will be examined and found to be not up to the sufficient standard and they're eliminated from the competition. This then increases your chances of being called to Stage 2.

Am open to correction!

WAW

The_Conductor wrote: »

I got 113- and I'm 606 on the Interdepartmental (and 961 on the open).

So there are 145 people on 113 or 114 on the open, and 90 on 113 or 114 in the interdepartmental.

If there is a similar spread across both panels- it infers roughly 2/3 of open candidates are serving civil servants- and 1/3 from the private sector- which is a big jump on private sector applications from the last time round.

Could be a mix of private sector and other public service non CS either, couldn't it? I wonder how many private sector apply. The whole starting at the first point on a scale for all external candidates is really, really unfair.

Sir Ophiuchus

The_Conductor wrote: »

If there is a similar spread across both panels- it infers roughly 2/3 of open candidates are serving civil servants- and 1/3 from the private sector- which is a big jump on private sector applications from the last time round.

Yep, but don't forget to account for civil servants who haven't hit the two-year mark (like myself), who are just in the open competition but wouldn't be private sector applicants.

ammg

Anyone else interested in positions in Galway and Mayo. There were about 5 locations I'd consider but the limit of 2 is a pain.

bobbysands81

ammg wrote: »

Anyone else interested in positions in Galway and Mayo. There were about 5 locations I'd consider but the limit of 2 is a pain.

The limit of 2 counties makes no sense at all.

You should also be able to change your preferences and even update your form such are the changes that can take place in someone’s personal and professional life over the two year period of any competition.

Addle

The location of actual positions should be advertised!
I've said it about other competitions, but in what other sector are applicants made apply for jobs that may never exist?!

nazzy

Addle wrote: »

The location of actual positions should be advertised!
I've said it about other competitions, but in what other sector are applicants made apply for jobs that may never exist?!

With it lasting 2 years and being across departments, it can't be specific. So many pending retirements and transfer requests, it would be impossible.

I do agree though, it's so frustrating! Most people are repeat applicants and that shows how long it can take to progress.

Addle

nazzy wrote: »

So many pending retirements and transfer requests, it would be impossible.

But exactly. Surely there's some sort of forward planning by HR units with regard to pending retirements. They should know the age profile of their staff, at the very least.

AndrewJRenko

There are a good number of AP posts (maybe 1 to 3 posts each week) being advertised internally as open for secondment by existing APs for 2 years or 3 years. I've no idea why these are only available as secondments.

nazzy

Addle wrote: »

But exactly. Surely there's some sort of forward planning by HR units with regard to pending retirements. They should know the age profile of their staff, at the very least.

But they have to work from maybe four separate panels and do them in rotation. Departments have their own internal panels, their own open panels, then there is open and interdepartmental with PAS and then transfer lists. There could be specialist roles to contend with too. There could be staff mobility changes so departments move geographical location.

In the last 18 months, in my own department, there have been huge changes and new sections formed and some sections lost.

A vacancy could be filled from any number, so they can't promise to fulfil it from any one panel. It's general recruitment, not specific. I've seen plenty of specific recruitment at the top grade, but there would be a much smaller pool of applicants making this possible.

If the civil service was ALL recruited by PAS, it might be easier. But with depts doing their own, it isn't feasible.

I'm already on an open AP panel and was offered Wexford last week. It didn't suit me, but it might have suited the colleague next to me. In fact, she is on a different internal panel and would have taken it, if offered. (we didn't have to give a location preference).

It is hugely frustrating for any of us that are restricted location wise. I'm very much waiting on one location. But the two locations definitely doesn't make sense but it must just be for administration and handiness. Certainly flawed.

Gickyk

For anyone interested, I scored 114 and am placed 563 & 891 on order of merit.

Doubtitdub

Any idea when the shortlisting process will be done?

The_Conductor

Doubtitdub wrote: »

Any idea when the shortlisting process will be done?

Give them a couple of weeks- I'm sure that they have to get people in to do the shortlisting- probably the same folk who do the interviews- a cohort of them come in and short list the CVs at this stage.

Max Mustermann

tigger123 wrote: »

I would interpret that it does mean they'll go lower down the OOM than they did on the last competiton. The reason being that the shortlisting based on the application form didn't happen until a later stage in the previous competition (if it happened at all).

But this time, the shortlisting seems to be happening after Stage 1. So it's quite conceivable that someone finished ahead of you (or I) in the OOM, their application form will be examined and found to be not up to the sufficient standard and they're eliminated from the competition. This then increases your chances of being called to Stage 2.

Am open to correction!

Thanks tigger123, that's a good point. There was no shortlisting in the 2016 comp which meant that candidates who didn't have a great form still got through to interview stage and potentially onto a panel. In this competition there could be some great candidates who don't have a great form and therefore don't get shortlisted, meaning PAS will need to push further down the OOM to get the same numbers on the panels. Not sure how big a factor this would be though.

tigger123

Max Mustermann wrote: »

Thanks tigger123, that's a good point. There was no shortlisting in the 2016 comp which meant that candidates who didn't have a great form still got through to interview stage and potentially onto a panel. In this competition there could be some great candidates who don't have a great form and therefore don't get shortlisted, meaning PAS will need to push further down the OOM to get the same numbers on the panels. Not sure how big a factor this would be though.

It's significant enough that they're changing the process to address it. They obviously felt people were getting through before that realistically (based on their experience) weren't able to cut it.

It's the right decision too, otherwise it's a waste of everyone's time.

Addle

Same thing happened with current HEO competition.

PhoenixParker

I can't really see shortlisting cutting much off the proportion who make it through interview into the panel.

It'll cut people pre-interview, but I'd hazard that 90%+ of those cut at shortlisting wouldn't have made it through interview anyway.

Roughly the same proportion of people will make it to the panel at the end of the day.

I'd love to be wrong, but I don't think shortlisting first has any impact beyond reducing the numbers to be interviewed.

The_Conductor

tigger123 wrote: »

It's significant enough that they're changing the process to address it. They obviously felt people were getting through before that realistically (based on their experience) weren't able to cut it.

It's the right decision too, otherwise it's a waste of everyone's time.

DPER are on the record expressing 'extreme disappointment with the calibre of staff who applied for the AP competition' (this related to the 2016 competition). This would appear to be a direct attempt to address this perceived deficit at as early a stage as possible (and it has the happy effect of making the interview process more manageable for the 2-3 interview boards who are going to have conduct however many hundred interviews following the shortlisting exercise).

Sir Ophiuchus

The_Conductor wrote: »

DPER are on the record expressing 'extreme disappointment with the calibre of staff who applied for the AP competition' (this related to the 2016 competition). This would appear to be a direct attempt to address this perceived deficit at as early a stage as possible (and it has the happy effect of making the interview process more manageable for the 2-3 interview boards who are going to have conduct however many hundred interviews following the shortlisting exercise).

To be fair, as an interviewer it's probably excruciating having to do a full formal interview with someone if you can tell just by looking at their CV that they clearly don't have anything like the required experience / demonstrated competencies.

SJ.

The_Conductor wrote: »

DPER are on the record expressing 'extreme disappointment with the calibre of staff who applied for the AP competition' (this related to the 2016 competition)..

Source please? Sounds like nonsense to me.

Addle

SJ. wrote: »

Source please? Sounds like nonsense to me.

Makes sense to me.
I know of completely inappropriate candidates who will fly through the online tests.
Hopefully shortlisting and interview will sieve them out.