NEW 2018 Assistant Principal Officer Competition

Sir Ophiuchus

runawaybishop wrote: »

There are avenues to get leadership experience outside of work that you can take if you can't get it in work.

That's what seems to be the problem. It seems like they're looking at a lot of applications and dismissing them because 'doesn't manage people? okay, no leadership experience'. That's the basis of my complaint.

I've taught university courses, organised large-scale charity events and managed a group of volunteers to do it, and covered my AP's work for six months, in addition to coordinating a national project.

But I'm being told I have insufficient leadership/management experience, which is leading me to believe that nothing other than managing staff will ever be enough.

runawaybishop

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

That's what seems to be the problem. It seems like they're looking at a lot of applications and dismissing them because 'doesn't manage people? okay, no leadership experience'. That's the basis of my complaint.

I've taught university courses, organised large-scale charity events and managed a group of volunteers to do it, and covered my AP's work for six months, in addition to coordinating a national project.

But I'm being told I have insufficient leadership/management experience, which is leading me to believe that nothing other than managing staff will ever be enough.

Agree, that seems shortsighted if they are disregarding the above experience

RiseToMe

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

That's what seems to be the problem. It seems like they're looking at a lot of applications and dismissing them because 'doesn't manage people? okay, no leadership experience'. That's the basis of my complaint.

I've taught university courses, organised large-scale charity events and managed a group of volunteers to do it, and covered my AP's work for six months, in addition to coordinating a national project.

But I'm being told I have insufficient leadership/management experience, which is leading me to believe that nothing other than managing staff will ever be enough.

It's not managing of staff they are looking for either as I manage 45 tutoring staff and I am lacking in the area.

I lecture in a university, have sole responsibility for the design delivery and content of 6 qualifications, run qualifications online via distance learning with a main goal being bringing the students together as a team as they won't meet in real life and keeping them organised and motivated and to a weekly timetable on top of their full time time jobs as well as organise and run workshops, liase directly with a variety of stakeholders etc.

So I'm at a loss as what specific aspect of Management and leadership they are seeking

dar100

I think most of us that did not get called or pass the first round will find some issue to complain about, irregardless of the realities. My bone of contention, the baseline to go to round 2 shortlisting. My situation:

First time ever applying to CS, didn't practices for the assessments, just done them. Was confident of scoring well in verbal (47) and situational (55), thought that I would fail numerical (I guessed all answers).

Passed all three tests, however total score of 102, so not brought forward. Now, you may argue that I did not meet the standardised requirement (and that is fair enough), nor did others for one reason or another (no management experience etc). So, we all have different issues, but all issues relate to standards not met, be those tests or competencies.

However, I've lots of other experience:

A degree and a masters degree in leadership and management

10 years experience in non-profit sector

5 years managing teams of up to 12 people

I believe I can do this job well, however, numerical is an area I am really bad at. I've not much motivation presently to change this, we will see going forward.

So, overall maybe I can do the job well, and have lots of different experience accept numerical...

Should someone such as me be called forward in the same manner as an AO or such with no management experience? perhaps, perhaps not.

Goodluck to all

dar100

RiseToMe wrote: »

It's not managing of staff they are looking for either as I manage 45 tutoring staff and I am lacking in the area.

I lecture in a university, have sole responsibility for the design delivery and content of 6 qualifications, run qualifications online via distance learning with a main goal being bringing the students together as a team as they won't meet in real life and keeping them organised and motivated and to a weekly timetable on top of their full time time jobs as well as organise and run workshops, liase directly with a variety of stakeholders etc.

So I'm at a loss as what specific aspect of Management and leadership they are seeking

Do you line manage 45 tutors? i.e sit down with them formally each month or so? develop work plans? motivate them? offer developmental opportunities? performance manage them etc. Or are you just responsible for their work and delegate tasks? they are both very different methods of 'managing' people.

RiseToMe

dar100 wrote: »

Do you line manage 45 tutors? i.e sit down with them formally each month or so? develop work plans? motivate them? offer developmental opportunities? performance manage them etc. Or are you just responsible for their work and delegate tasks? they are both very different methods of 'managing' people.

Line manage and quality assure their work (as is required by our accrediteding body), host sessions for feedback from their students and senior tutors, responsibile for all their training needs, leave, sickness etc.

dar100

RiseToMe wrote: »

Line manage and quality assure their work (as is required by our accrediteding body), host sessions for feedback from their students and senior tutors, responsibile for all their training needs, leave, sickness etc.

Why are you looking to leave? I assume you are in an IT or university at lest on senior lecturer scale which would be more that AP.and better leave?

RiseToMe

dar100 wrote: »

Why are you looking to leave? I assume you are in an IT or university at lest on senior lecturer scale which would be more that AP.and better leave?

University but in the UK, young family here so want to be at home more for obvious reasons. I'm in a fortunate position to not have money be a main motivation factor, what I earn goes more a less straight into savings.

dar100

RiseToMe wrote: »

University but in the UK, young family here so want to be at home more for obvious reasons. I'm in a fortunate position to not have money be a main motivation factor, what I earn goes more a less straight into savings.

Yes quality of life is important.

I hope you get your move. Keep your eye out on other PS jobs, im sure you are aware of other roles of a transfarability nature

Megidje

dar100 wrote: »

I think most of us that did not get called or pass the first round will find some issue to complain about, irregardless of the realities. My bone of contention, the baseline to go to round 2 shortlisting. My situation:

First time ever applying to CS, didn't practices for the assessments, just done them. Was confident of scoring well in verbal (47) and situational (55), thought that I would fail numerical (I guessed all answers).

Passed all three tests, however total score of 102, so not brought forward. Now, you may argue that I did not meet the standardised requirement (and that is fair enough), nor did others for one reason or another (no management experience etc). So, we all have different issues, but all issues relate to standards not met, be those tests or competencies.

However, I've lots of other experience:

A degree and a masters degree in leadership and management

10 years experience in non-profit sector

5 years managing teams of up to 12 people

I believe I can do this job well, however, numerical is an area I am really bad at. I've not much motivation presently to change this, we will see going forward.

So, overall maybe I can do the job well, and have lots of different experience accept numerical...

Should someone such as me be called forward in the same manner as an AO or such with no management experience? perhaps, perhaps not.

Goodluck to all

Just curious if anyone in the first 100 or so didn’t make shortlisting? As recent posts are referring to the long hours an AP works - are they on the clock?

The_Conductor

Megidje wrote: »

Just curious if anyone in the first 100 or so didn’t make shortlisting? As recent posts are referring to the long hours an AP works - are they on the clock?

APs and higher aren't on the clock- and don't have access to Flexi. HEO/AO and lower- are on the clock- and have access to flexi.

quad_red

Megidje wrote: »

Just curious if anyone in the first 100 or so didn’t make shortlisting? As recent posts are referring to the long hours an AP works - are they on the clock?

I was in just over 100 in OOM. I know someone in low seventies on OOM who wasn’t called. And I know someone over 500 on OOM who was called.

gruenlichrosa

At the risk of asking a silly question, but: how is one to "clearly set out the action/decision" to be reviewed in the form? How specific does it have to be?

Sir Ophiuchus

gruenlichrosa wrote: »

At the risk of asking a silly question, but: how is one to "clearly set out the action/decision" to be reviewed in the form? How specific does it have to be?

I was pretty specific, but I doubt you need to be.

I said 'the decision that I did not have the necessary experience at the expected level in [X]'. And then I said it again for the second category they excluded me on.

Perhaps a little petty on my part, but it feels like they look for excuses to disregard your review.

timaru89

Megidje wrote: »

Just curious if anyone in the first 100 or so didn’t make shortlisting?

60s on OOM and not shortlisted

Loudboy

44 on OOM and rejected

Doubtitdub

Interesting to see if anyone is successful in appealing the decision made, some people rejected that should 100% be capable of the position.

Kjh100

Did any EO's get through the shortlisting process?

HannahR31

Kjh100 wrote: »

Did any EO's get through the shortlisting process?

Yes - although Acting HEO a while now.

gagsvonbuten

HannahR31 wrote: »

Yes - although Acting HEO a while now.

1 other at least, at eo level 3 years, no higher grade acting but previous mgmt exp.in.private industry

Veledan22

Does anybody know how many people got through the shortlisting?

tigger123

It may have been mentioned on this thread already, but heard from a good source that HR Units throughout the Civil Service were quite disappointed with the standard of candidates appointed in the 2016 competition, and expressed this to DPER in the strongest terms.

May go some way to explain why the shortlisting is cutting all but the top candidates.

Doubtitdub

Did anyone that appealed the decision made at shortlisting receive a response that the appeal had been received or a response to the actual appeal?

Addle

Surely the interview process should cut all but the top candidates?

timaru89

Doubtitdub wrote: »

Did anyone that appealed the decision made at shortlisting receive a response that the appeal had been received or a response to the actual appeal?

Received a response to request saying actual response would issue by 8th Dec

TaurenDruid

timaru89 wrote: »

Received a response to request saying actual response would issue by 8th Dec

So nearly a month to review? Given that if the appeal is successful you'd still need notice to attend for supervised tests, they're presumably running those all the way into mid December, then...

quad_red

timaru89 wrote: »

Received a response to request saying actual response would issue by 8th Dec

I didn’t receive any response. I’m worried now.

Going to try and call them at lunch.

tea and coffee

If you took a career break then does this exclude you from the Interdepartmental?

ahnowbrowncow

tea and coffee wrote: »

If you took a career break then does this exclude you from the Interdepartmental?

Not as far as I'm aware

franklyon

Apologies for derailing the thread but does anyone know when the first secretary tests will commence?