NEW 2018 Assistant Principal Officer Competition

gruenlichrosa

quad_red wrote: »

I didn’t receive any response. I’m worried now.

Going to try and call them at lunch.

I didn't receive a response either. Did you call?

Subutai

gruenlichrosa wrote: »

I didn't receive a response either. Did you call?

Informal reviews are supposed to be responded to in time to allow people to request a formal one if neccessary. The deadline for that closes at close of business today.

It would probably be best for anyone who thinks they may want a formal review to get in under that wire.

delricyo

franklyon wrote: »

Apologies for derailing the thread but does anyone know when the first secretary tests will commence?

Did they definitely say that there will be tests? They may use other methods as well or instead

RiseToMe

Subutai wrote: »

Informal reviews are supposed to be responded to in time to allow people to request a formal one if neccessary. The deadline for that closes at close of business today.

It would probably be best for anyone who thinks they may want a formal review to get in under that wire.

No, that's not the case. As per an email conversation with PAS today:

"Due to the volume of campaigns being run at present we cannot give a time frame as to when the result of the informal request will be sent, please be patient with us at this time.

If you have submitted an informal request for review, and still unhappy with the outcome you will have two days from receiving your results to submit a formal request for review."

franklyon

delricyo wrote: »

franklyon wrote: »

Apologies for derailing the thread but does anyone know when the first secretary tests will commence?

Did they definitely say that there will be tests? They may use other methods as well or instead

I would expect so as it was a seperate application.

fi314

I believe there are no tests, they are shortlisting currently and then a recorded interview. You get sent questions beforehand.

timaru89

The deadline of 8 Dec related to response to formal review

JonT

Results of shortlisting for First Sec just released.

Sir Ophiuchus

JonT wrote: »

Results of shortlisting for First Sec just released.

Yeah. Just got cut.

'On their application form, candidate did not demonstrate, at the level required for the First Secretary role, sufficient evidence of Management Experience and Analysis & Policy Development / Interest in Foreign Policy.'

Management experience possibly, but policy development? That's my entire ****ing job. This is ridiculous.

HartsHat

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

Yeah. Just got cut.

'On their application form, candidate did not demonstrate, at the level required for the First Secretary role, sufficient evidence of Management Experience and Analysis & Policy Development / Interest in Foreign Policy.'

Management experience possibly, but policy development? That's my entire ****ing job. This is ridiculous.

Perhaps your policy experience or development experience isn't as extensive as the candidates who got through?

delricyo

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

Yeah. Just got cut.

'On their application form, candidate did not demonstrate, at the level required for the First Secretary role, sufficient evidence of Management Experience and Analysis & Policy Development / Interest in Foreign Policy.'

Management experience possibly, but policy development? That's my entire ****ing job. This is ridiculous.

Got cut for the same reason. I'm the opposite to you- I've been managing staff for years.

Sir Ophiuchus

HartsHat wrote: »

Perhaps your policy experience or development experience isn't as extensive as the candidates who got through?

That may well be the case, of course, but I thought it would be enough to at least get a look in.

never_mind

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

Yeah. Just got cut.

'On their application form, candidate did not demonstrate, at the level required for the First Secretary role, sufficient evidence of Management Experience and Analysis & Policy Development / Interest in Foreign Policy.'

Management experience possibly, but policy development? That's my entire ****ing job. This is ridiculous.

I'd say that this is just a template used for everyone - wouldn't read too much into it. Probably a case that Management, Analysis/Dev and/or FP was lacking...Don't be too disheartened!

Sir Ophiuchus

never_mind wrote: »

I'd say that this is just a template used for everyone - wouldn't read too much into it. Probably a case that Management, Analysis/Dev and/or FP was lacking...Don't be too disheartened!

Cheers. I was pretty surprised, because Policy/Analysis was the area that they didn't have a problem with for the AP competition.

blue10

Who actually shortlists? PAS or DFAT staff?

tea and coffee

Also got cut. Same reasons and also inc that I didn't engage effectively with diverse stakeholders (which is basically my current role!!)
Unusual as surely if these elements were seen as good enough for AP then why not for 1st Sec - which is same level more or less!

franklyon

Also got cut, really ridiculous as have also been managing staff for years and have a keen interest in Irish foreign policy not to mention being fluent in French and Spanish.
Have also lived abroad for the past ten years and am available to go anywhere they want.
Is there anyway to appeal this?

edit, it appears there is.

https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/review-process

HartsHat

tea and coffee wrote: »

Also got cut. Same reasons and also inc that I didn't engage effectively with diverse stakeholders (which is basically my current role!!)
Unusual as surely if these elements were seen as good enough for AP then why not for 1st Sec - which is same level more or less!

The calibre of candidate may be different between the two competitions.

Furthermore, there are far fewer 1st sec positions. One would therefore presume a higher standard would be required to make the cut.

fi314

Do you think there is a biased towards internal candidates. I believe the shortlisting was done by DFAT.

Starblue

I was shortlisted and didn’t make the cut in the Open AP Housing competition in Wexford so the mind boggles. There must not have been that many applications that they were able to shortlist so quickly? Seems remarkably fast

WAW

Starblue wrote: »

I was shortlisted and didn’t make the cut in the Open AP Housing competition in Wexford so the mind boggles. There must not have been that many applications that they were able to shortlist so quickly? Seems remarkably fast

Congrats. Can I ask what kind of work background/qualifications you have? It would be Interesting to see how PAS decide on suitable candidates.

WAW

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

Yeah. Just got cut.

'On their application form, candidate did not demonstrate, at the level required for the First Secretary role, sufficient evidence of Management Experience and Analysis & Policy Development / Interest in Foreign Policy.'

Management experience possibly, but policy development? That's my entire ****ing job. This is ridiculous.

Are you going to look for a review formal or informal? Presume it's similar process to AP.

Megidje

Getting back to the AP competition, you would think that PAS would be letting those that got through shortlisting when they will sit the supervised tests, considering that they are starting Stage 2 next Monday week 19th?

Starblue

WAW wrote: »

Congrats. Can I ask what kind of work background/qualifications you have? It would be Interesting to see how PAS decide on suitable candidates.

Private sector management and civil service at HEO level. Would seem it’s on the basis of the private sector stuff which was definitely discounted for Housing, I really think it’s hard to be definitive about any of this, it seems totally subjective and dependent on each individual competition, which is of no help when you are trying to make inroads

Maybenever

Starblue wrote: »

I was shortlisted and didn’t make the cut in the Open AP Housing competition in Wexford so the mind boggles. There must not have been that many applications that they were able to shortlist so quickly? Seems remarkably fast

I believe there were in excess of 250. I know of a serving AP that got an interview. I also know of very serious private sector candidates operating at levels beyond AP that didn't get shortlisted so don't feel too bad.

tea and coffee

HartsHat wrote: »

The calibre of candidate may be different between the two competitions.

Furthermore, there are far fewer 1st sec positions. One would therefore presume a higher standard would be required to make the cut.

Ah yes, the old Dips vs general service divide. I thought that type of thinking left with DAG.

@fi314 : I know of some dfat staff who didn't make the cut, so it's hard to tell.

Bowiegal

tea and coffee wrote: »

Ah yes, the old Dips vs general service divide.

@ : I know of some dfat staff who didn't make the cut, so it's hard to tell.

I’m a serving AP with over 10 years management experience of small to medium teams and didn’t get shortlisted because I didn’t have ‘management exoerience’

Starblue

Maybenever wrote: »

I believe there were in excess of 250. I know of a serving AP that got an interview. I also know of very serious private sector candidates operating at levels beyond AP that didn't get shortlisted so don't feel too bad.

I know, but you would expect or hope at least that ‘very serious private sector candidates operating beyond AP level’ would get an interview in an open competition, that’s pretty much the point. Was really just trying to say that it is very competition-specific and hard to predict

WAW

Can anybody who wasn't shortlisted tell me what kind of feedback/reply they got when they e-mailed for either AP or First Secretary ? Was it helpful and did it give you an idea where you fell down? Thanks.

APcomp

Back on topic, it's a bit odd that PAS have still not contacted us with more information in relation to the supervised tests (and e-tray) considering they said they would be starting them on Monday week. Some proper notice would be appreciated PAS!