NEW 2018 Assistant Principal Officer Competition

AndrewJRenko

Augme wrote: »

Do you mean your current role below the AP position? As in your for example in a specialist heo role and if you get an AP fail probation will you then be put back into the same specialist heo role? From reading the previous piece your old department will have to take you back as an HEO but they don't have to give youthe exact same old position back.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. It's not a great situation to be in, but it's not the end of the world, and it's better than being out on your ear!

Summer2019

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. It's not a great situation to be in, but it's not the end of the world, and it's better than being out on your ear!

Hi there! Any more updates on which number has been reached on the panel!

Sonic_exyouth

Summer2019 wrote: »

Hi there! Any more updates on which number has been reached on the panel!

Not much change on this yesterday;

SFC1895 wrote: »

Update:

At approx 14 (open) and 9 (InterD) on the panel

SonicHook

Sonic_exyouth wrote: »

Not much change on this yesterday;

14 from how many? Confused.com

Sonic_exyouth

SonicHook wrote: »

14 from how many? Confused.com

The open Dublin Panel

Newbie 101

Hi All,
I've been on to PAS and apparently there has been no vacancies logged for Westmeath or Longford and no movement on either list, however, I have heard that Revenue have filled a vacancy in Westmeath from the Inter D panel. Anyone hear anything similar happening regionally? Hard to know what the truth is.

bobbysands81

Newbie 101 wrote: »

Hi All,
I've been on to PAS and apparently there has been no vacancies logged for Westmeath or Longford and no movement on either list, however, I have heard that Revenue have filled a vacancy in Westmeath from the Inter D panel. Anyone hear anything similar happening regionally? Hard to know what the truth is.

It’s a shambles the way PAS run the regional part of the competitions. Only allowing people to choose two counties is a disgrace. However, if I chose two counties that there were no promotions in over the lifetime of the panel then I would consider further action. By creating a panel for every county they are creating an expectation that there will be a vacancy in every county so if there’s not then it’s very much open to legal challenge.

Also, I wonder how many people have been allowed make a change to the two counties they originally picked? PAS will tell you none... but that ain’t true!

TaurenDruid

bobbysands81 wrote: »

It’s a shambles the way PAS run the competitions.

Fixed that for you.

The lack of transparency, the black and white nature of their decisions (except not black and white at all if you make the right noise or enough noise), the complete lack of feedback (in direct opposition to their mission statement), the inefficiency around the whole application process... they're a 20th century organisation still working away in the 21st.

SFC1895

Any movement in Dublin? I wonder will a hard Brexit result in a moratorium

Sonic_exyouth

SFC1895 wrote: »

Any movement in Dublin? I wonder will a hard Brexit result in a moratorium

Doubt it, a moratorium would have to be announced - and the plan at the moment is to recruit a lot to prepare for the no-deal Brexit..

Lack of movement is probably a lack of resources in PAS - it's the major Annual leave time, and there has been a huge flurry in retirements the past 2 weeks that isn't going to go away for the next while.

My guess is a good few will be taken in one swoop this week or next.

AndrewJRenko

From AHCPS;

AP1 Panel: The panel of 46 is exhausted.

Mickla

I think it refers to the 2017 competition. I looked at the AHCPS ezine and it states:

Panels & PO Sequence

2017 Open Principal Officer Panel: A panel of 78 is in place since 21st November 2017 but is now exhausted for Dublin appointments. Some successful candidates remain on the panel awaiting regional appointments. DPER has given no indication of any plans for a new competition.

PO Sequence: The Association continues to await DPER’s response to our position that the two in three requirement, under the Arbitration Board ruling of September 2015 must change.

PO1 Panel: There were 12 in total placed on the panel.

AP1 Panel: The panel of 46 is exhausted.

MCQ71

I am no 1 on a regional panel for the 2018 competition. Does this from the union mean that there might be people ahead of me from a 2017 panel? I thought the older panels closed once the new one opened and if your number wasn’t reached you just had to try again?

ParkRunner

MCQ71 wrote: »

I am no 1 on a regional panel for the 2018 competition. IDoes this from the union mean that there might be people ahead of me from a 2017 panel? I thought the older panels closed once the new one opened and if your number wasn’t reached you just had to try again?

The only thing that seems certain unfortunately about the rules around PAS competitions and closing dates of panels is that they are fluid and subject to change.

Ollie321

ParkRunner wrote: »

The only thing that seems certain unfortunately about the rules around PAS competitions and closing dates of panels is that they are fluid and subject to change.

Does anyone know if you are able to request information from PAS about appointments made etc. I queried a panel but was told as it was still active they was no available stats which I find very hard to believe, surely this sort of info should be made available?

Starlight321

bobbysands81 wrote: »

It’s a shambles the way PAS run the regional part of the competitions. Only allowing people to choose two counties is a disgrace. However, if I chose two counties that there were no promotions in over the lifetime of the panel then I would consider further action. By creating a panel for every county they are creating an expectation that there will be a vacancy in every county so if there’s not then it’s very much open to legal challenge.

Also, I wonder how many people have been allowed make a change to the two counties they originally picked? PAS will tell you none... but that ain’t true!

I too am raging about the way the regional panels are run. I only ticked 1 county. I am number 1 on both open and interdep panels for that county. I have however been advised the woman in HR for the only Department (large enough to have AP positions) that she does not foresee any vacancies in next 2 years ! Furthermore the two vacancies they currently have will be filled internally 'from their own -as you can understand' , these were her words. I now question why PAS even bother to put a panel together for counties such as this. It is a waste of time and resources never mind the blood sweat and tears it has taken for us to get a position on this phantom panel. [/B]. I am aware there are rules on how a Department can fill a vacancy, but I also have been told they are allowed to use discretion, i.e take more then the quote they are allowed from the internal panel, thus ignoring the interdep and open panels. :-(((( so I ask what is the point of putting us through this hell?

TaurenDruid

Starlight321 wrote: »

I too am raging about the way the regional panels are run. I only ticked 1 county. I am number 1 on both open and interdep panels for that county. I have however been advised the woman in HR for the only Department (large enough to have AP positions) that she does not foresee any vacancies in next 2 years ! Furthermore the two vacancies they currently have will be filled internally 'from their own -as you can understand' , these were her words. I now question why PAS even bother to put a panel together for counties such as this. It is a waste of time and resources never mind the blood sweat and tears it has taken for us to get a position on this phantom panel. [/B]. I am aware there are rules on how a Department can fill a vacancy, but I also have been told they are allowed to use discretion, i.e take more then the quote they are allowed from the internal panel, thus ignoring the interdep and open panels. :-(((( so I ask what is the point of putting us through this hell?

None. But the "easiest" way to run the competition is to list every county that has a civil service presence, so that's what they do. They should put a paragraph into the info booklet advising that some counties have very few vacancies; they should also pre-emptively answer a lot of the questions that are always asked here on likely number of vacancies (say based on the last 2 years), the sequence of appointment (internal, inter-d, open), etc.

That all said - imagine being a HEO in the county in question, knowing there's no vacancy likely to come up for 2 years, but when one does, it's filled from outside even though the next vacancy was supposed to be filled from internal promotion... you might be a bit annoyed...

Augme

It's a no win situation for PAS. They have to list all counties. Let's be real, Departments arent going to email PAS and tell them not to bother including Sligo in there next AP comp as they plan on taking all their APs from an internal panel for example.

MCQ71

If the position is due to be filled from the internal panel that’s one thing, but not if Depts are choosing to give more promotions out of sequence to their existing staff on internal panels and are allowed to bypass the PAS panels and to “owe” positions to the open or intrd panels.
And don’t forget that there’s nothing to stop that HEO applying to get on the open or interdepartmental panel the same as the rest of us... There might not have been internal promotions for a few years but they shouldn’t take every promotion opportunity available.

Augme

MCQ71 wrote: »

don’t forget that there’s nothing to stop that HEO applying to get on the open or interdepartmental panel the same as the rest of us... There might not have been internal promotions for a few years but they shouldn’t take every promotion opportunity available.

The problem is there is shortlisting, tests and then presentation stopping them getting on a panel though and then it's possible they won't finish high up enough on a regional panel to get ever get called.

You'd be crazy to ever turn down a promotion if it is offered.

ParkRunner

TaurenDruid wrote: »

None. But the "easiest" way to run the competition is to list every county that has a civil service presence, so that's what they do. They should put a paragraph into the info booklet advising that some counties have very few vacancies; they should also pre-emptively answer a lot of the questions that are always asked here on likely number of vacancies (say based on the last 2 years), the sequence of appointment (internal, inter-d, open), etc.

That all said - imagine being a HEO in the county in question, knowing there's no vacancy likely to come up for 2 years, but when one does, it's filled from outside even though the next vacancy was supposed to be filled from internal promotion... you might be a bit annoyed...

Not wanting to defend PAS but they do put this standard line into most info booklets

“Regional Recruitment
While the majority of vacancies arising will be in Dublin some may arise in other regions. On the application form candidates may select up to a maximum of two regions.”

Choosing a regional option without selecting Dublin as the other probably isn’t explained enough in terms of its consequences though

Addle

Anyone that’s experienced any competition in the last couple of years should have copped on to regional difficulties.

HelloPeeps

Hello All, I've just reached clearance (open competition) so the first step is getting the Garda vetting. The only issue is that on the phone to PAS today they said that they will want my references before I'm informed of what the assignment is?

Has anyone any experience of getting around this? I'd rather not tell my current employer until I know what the assignment is, just in case.

Max Mustermann

HelloPeeps wrote: »

Hello All, I've just reached clearance (open competition) so the first step is getting the Garda vetting. The only issue is that on the phone to PAS today they said that they will want my references before I'm informed of what the assignment is?

Has anyone any experience of getting around this? I'd rather not tell my current employer until I know what the assignment is, just in case.

Hello Hello,
Congrats on reaching clearance. If your employer is a large organisation you might be able to get a basic factual reference directly from HR on the quiet which would suffice rather than a glowing reference from your line manager, but if it's a small company you might need to have that difficult conversation. What's the worst that can happen? They can beg you to stay and shower you with incentives and offer you a pay rise. Be strong, this is a good opportunity. Good luck with whatever you decide. Could I ask roughly where you are on the panel? Are we still in the teens or are we into the twenties?

HelloPeeps

Thanks for that. It’s a large enough organisation that I could ask HR.

I was 15 open - so solidly mid-teens

Max Mustermann wrote: »

Hello Hello,
Congrats on reaching clearance. If your employer is a large organisation you might be able to get a basic factual reference directly from HR on the quiet which would suffice rather than a glowing reference from your line manager, but if it's a small company you might need to have that difficult conversation. What's the worst that can happen? They can beg you to stay and shower you with incentives and offer you a pay rise. Be strong, this is a good opportunity. Good luck with whatever you decide. Could I ask roughly where you are on the panel? Are we still in the teens or are we into the twenties?

Rebelcat1909

Am in the high 50's open so am hoping for an uptick in the retirement rate in the next while!

SFC1895

Update:


By yesterday, PAS were approximately at 23 Open, 17 InterD.

minky123

Does anyone know the notice period I have to give if I resign whilemon probation? Thanks!

gmisk

minky123 wrote: »

Does anyone know the notice period I have to give if I resign whilemon probation? Thanks!

I would have thought it would be the standard 4 weeks?


My current place asked for 6 weeks as I am in the middle of a couple of projects (I had no issue with that...neither did new place) start new job on 16th Sept!


Thanks to all posters on this thread its been really helpful.

HelloPeeps

minky123 wrote: »

Does anyone know the notice period I have to give if I resign whilemon probation? Thanks!

Unless there is something different in your contract I would have thought that you just have to give the statutory minimum, which is one week, if you have been with the employer for less than 2 years -

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/starting_work_and_changing_job/changing_job/giving_notice.html