NEW 2018 Assistant Principal Officer Competition

Megidje

It appears from posters that almost all regional movement on this is as a result of people taking other posts (possibly internal). If this is the case does it actually mean that the regional Open and Interdepartmental panels are being constantly bypassed by Departments looking to fill posts internally?
Or is there some other bigger factor at play here in the slow progress filling posts? Brexit?

Starlight321

The regional county i am hoping for has filled 3 AP vacancies since April2019- start of panel, all have been filled internally. Its maddening that Depts can do this, ignoring the interdep. and open which are in place.

Addle

What happens to positions that are owed? Do they just ignore them?

Is contacting the union any use?
It’s breach of an agreement.

johntune

Addle wrote: »

What happens to positions that are owed? Do they just ignore them?

Is contacting the union any use?
It’s breach of an agreement.

Positions owed are on a national basis. Departments tend to keep regional positions for transfers/ internal promotions. Dublin would have a higher ratio from open panels.

AndrewJRenko

johntune wrote: »

Departments tend to keep regional positions for transfers/ internal promotions.

Any idea what's the thinking behind this?

TaurenDruid

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Any idea what's the thinking behind this?

In my opinion:

Departments with regional offices presumably have a larger HQ in Dublin (what with it being the capital, and all). Big office in Dublin means lots of room for mobility, promotions, transfers, etc, as people can move easily between other Departments that also have an office in the capital.

If there's a regional office, it'll be smaller, with little to no opportunity for promotion, internal or external transfer.

So it makes sense that if you can, when a promotional opportunity arises in a regional office and you have qualified staff in situ on a panel, you do your best to promote them there, or failing that, facilitate someone wanting to transfer there for family or commuting reasons.

MCQ71

I think that you may be missing some important points here:
Most people on the PAS regional panels want/need to be in a particular region for commuting or family reasons and they have proved their commitment by going through the competition process and proved their ability by getting placed on the panel.
This option was also available to the staff in situ if they bothered to apply but instead they are leapfrogging the PAS panel to get placed from internal panels which generally have a much easier process. This means the regions are becoming a closed shop where you can only access positions if you’re based there already.
Many of us can’t take up positions in Dublin for many reasons. There is no agreed formal mobility process available at HEO or AP level, so if you want to work in a particular region, and you’re not based there already, the PAS process is your only option; but as we can see from comments here, it is being bypassed in favour of staff already based in the region.
That is what is unfair.

TaurenDruid

MCQ71 wrote: »

I think that you may be missing some important points here:
Most people on the PAS regional panels want/need to be in a particular region for commuting or family reasons and they have proved their commitment by going through the competition process and proved their ability by getting placed on the panel.
This option was also available to the staff in situ if they bothered to apply but instead they are leapfrogging the PAS panel to get placed from internal panels which generally have a much easier process. This means the regions are becoming a closed shop where you can only access positions if you’re based there already.
Many of us can’t take up positions in Dublin for many reasons. There is no agreed formal mobility process available at HEO or AP level, so if you want to work in a particular region, and you’re not based there already, the PAS process is your only option; but as we can see from comments here, it is being bypassed in favour of staff already based in the region.
That is what is unfair.

I think you may be missing some important points, here.

Most people working in regional offices are doing so for family and commuting reasons, and would also like the opportunity to go for promotion. Likewise, many Dublin-based staff will have been waiting years for the opportunity to transfer "back home".

They have "proven their commitment" by staying working in a regional office despite no opportunity for promotion from 2007/8 until 2016/17, and/or by continuing to serve in Dublin despite the higher cost of living/commuting.

Many regional-based staff did, obviously, bother going for promotion, by entering the open and inter-departmental competitions - read the thread.

Personally, I'm Dublin-based, and for family reasons didn't apply myself for regional panels. I have no skin in this game. Someone asked a question. I offered an opinion. There is no perfect fair-to-all solution, but in my opinion at least, the least unfair option is to treat the panel commitments on a national basis and where possible, facilitate your existing staff, who most likely, if successful in an AP competition, will have been serving at least through the last recession. YMMV.

Starlight321

TaurenDruid wrote: »

In my opinion:

Departments with regional offices presumably have a larger HQ in Dublin (what with it being the capital, and all). Big office in Dublin means lots of room for mobility, promotions, transfers, etc, as people can move easily between other Departments that also have an office in the capital.

If there's a regional office, it'll be smaller, with little to no opportunity for promotion, internal or external transfer.

So it makes sense that if you can, when a promotional opportunity arises in a regional office and you have qualified staff in situ on a panel, you do your best to promote them there, or failing that, facilitate someone wanting to transfer there for family or commuting reasons.

This is exactly what is happening, Depts are favouring their own staff for transfers or internal promotions over PAS panels. I have been bypassed 3 times now. The unfairnessis that the Dept know the staff member who is most needy, and uses discretion to transfer them from Dublin for regional position. However the person on PAS panel is not known to management board, they do not know his/ her state of neediness and so this person does not get a look in. This is called discrimination.

As for the borrowing and owing staff to fulfil the rules on a national basis, this is not fair. This panel has an expiry date so it is no good to us if the Dept promise to pay their debt on open/ inter in the regional county next year

Megidje

I agree totally. What is the point in putting regional candidates (and PAS) through the massive expense of progressing through all four stages of an AP competition when both Open and Interdepartmental regional panels are then bypassed? This bypassing is going on in all regions and taxpayers should be informed of this waste of public funds involved.

TaurenDruid

Starlight321 wrote: »

As for the borrowing and owing staff to fulfil the rules on a national basis, this is not fair. This panel has an expiry date so it is no good to us if the Dept promise to pay their debt on open/ inter in the regional county next year

It's totally fair! Each Department is a single national body, not many different autonomous organisations under a nominal head. When a Department gets sanction to fill posts, it's asking for X posts at Y level to do Z job. Not "2 APs in the midland office, and 3 HEOs in the HQ."

Maybe some Departments do get into big "debt" to certain panels, but I've not seen or heard of it - they generally stick reasonably close to the 1/1/1 ratio once a panel is actually in place that they can draw from.

HartsHat

Starlight321 wrote: »

This is exactly what is happening, Depts are favouring their own staff for transfers or internal promotions over PAS panels. I have been bypassed 3 times now. The unfairnessis that the Dept know the staff member who is most needy, and uses discretion to transfer them from Dublin for regional position. However the person on PAS panel is not known to management board, they do not know his/ her state of neediness and so this person does not get a look in. This is called discrimination.

As for the borrowing and owing staff to fulfil the rules on a national basis, this is not fair. This panel has an expiry date so it is no good to us if the Dept promise to pay their debt on open/ inter in the regional county next year

It is an employer favouring current employees over people they don't know. Like every employer in the world does.

If someone is know to the Management Board has being dilligent and hard working, then of course they will want to help them, as they should.

Also, competitions, like any application process the world over, aren't their to benefit applicant, they're there to benefit the needs and requirements of the employer.

HartsHat

TaurenDruid wrote: »

It's totally fair! Each Department is a single national body, not many different autonomous organisations under a nominal head. When a Department gets sanction to fill posts, it's asking for X posts at Y level to do Z job. Not "2 APs in the midland office, and 3 HEOs in the HQ."

Maybe some Departments do get into big "debt" to certain panels, but I've not seen or heard of it - they generally stick reasonably close to the 1/1/1 ratio once a panel is actually in place that they can draw from.

It is reviewed on a quarterly basis by DPER. Departments also sometimes go in to debt on the open side (where there has been no internal panel for a long time).

prettyboy81

Best of luck to those in the next batch of AP interviews for Dublin & Kildare starting tomorrow. I am up next Tuesday, 28th in front of the board with the Head of L&D, Eircom.

Not sure of how many boards there are but best of luck!

Starlight321

Is anyone here on a Regional Panel where no- one has been placed so far?
Given that there are only 9 mths left I am wondering how many regional panels will expire, unused?

prettyboy81

prettyboy81 wrote: »

Best of luck to those in the next batch of AP interviews for Dublin & Kildare starting tomorrow. I am up next Tuesday, 28th in front of the board with the Head of L&D, Eircom.

Not sure of how many boards there are but best of luck!

Results out, how did people fair? I made the panel mid teens

Trying to figure out where public jobs are with previous batches is not easy. Are they far down Batch 3 (if this is correct batch) for Dublin? Any info be great.

Happy Monday.

ammg

When is this panel coming to an end?

prettyboy81

ammg wrote: »

When is this panel coming to an end?

October 2020.

SonicHook

It's as good as over if you're in the regions...in my mind anyway!

Marie_C

Don’t give up hope. There’s 8 months left and there could be placements in the regions yet.

Starlight321

SonicHook wrote: »

It's as good as over if you're in the regions...in my mind anyway!

13 out of the 26 regional panels have not been used so far, what a waste of everyones time.

MCQ71

Starlight321 wrote: »

13 out of the 26 regional panels have not been used so far, what a waste of everyones time.

Thank you for that update. I would say that unless the process is already started with PAS there will be very little movement or assignments to any Departments or regions until a new government is formed and settled, and that could take a while. Did PAS give you the information on the number of regional panels used so far? I asked them for some information on movement in other regional panels as there’s no movement on any I’ve seen, but they said they could only give me information on panels that I am on?

TaurenDruid

MCQ71 wrote: »

Thank you for that update. I would say that unless the process is already started with PAS there will be very little movement or assignments to any Departments or regions until a new government is formed and settled, and that could take a while.

Nope, that won't affect civil service recruitment. If approval has already been given, recruitment is in train. If it hasn't been given, the lack of a government won't slow down the approval process.

prettyboy81

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Nope, that won't affect civil service recruitment. If approval has already been given, recruitment is in train. If it hasn't been given, the lack of a government won't slow down the approval process.

That's hopefully the case for the latest Dublin AP batch that I am on. All other Dublin AP batches are exhausted.

Starlight321

MCQ71 wrote: »

Thank you for that update. I would say that unless the process is already started with PAS there will be very little movement or assignments to any Departments or regions until a new government is formed and settled, and that could take a while. Did PAS give you the information on the number of regional

panels used so far? I asked them for some information on movement in other regional panels as there’s no movement on any I’ve seen, but they said they could only give me information on panels that I am on?

Yes it was PAS who gave this information

Newbie 101

Hi, anyone else get an email about an expression of interest for Dublin??

Starlight321

Newbie 101 wrote: »

Hi, anyone else get an email about an expression of interest for Dublin??

I did, i think everyone on the regional panels got this email

Megidje

Can I ask what was the Dublin offer as I am regional and didn't get it?

Jean15963

Any update on Expressions of Interest for Dublin positions?

Cheeseplant

new open competition just announced!