Downside of social welfare

Riskymove

Art McCarrick wrote: »

Worth remembering a lot of welfare recipients are pensioners, welfare is a very broad term.

people are using the term "on the dole" in these conversations and that tends to reflect the target of their comments - however I would go forward and say the issue is long term recipients of jobseeker benefits

OAP, Child benefit, Carers allowance,Illness and Disability etc. are all "welfare" benefits but I think it is clear that they are not what is being discussed

Graces7

vectorvictor wrote: »

Very easy to get stuck in a rut and hard to justify work. Leads to lack of ambition particularly if you are single person going to be earning minimum or even living wage.

I.E.
Social welfare - €198
Rent allowance/HAP, Medical card , fuel allowance, CWO digouts etc..

Work 40hours @ €10 per hour
Take home is €362
Your on your own for everything
Effectively working for €4.10 an hour (diff between welfare and work pay)

Welfare system way too generous.
Should be food stamps , clothes vouchers and a leap card to get to and from interviews.
Login to an o

online system weekly to upload a minimum proof of five job applications that are verified.

If ya gets the free money to spend on fags, vodka and Domino's why bother working eh?

Job Seekers is just that , money to support looking for a job.

Have you actually tried it? nb solid fuel allowance is a contribution not a complete cover. and not everyone has solid fuel heating. or access to a computer?

vectorvictor

Graces7 wrote: »

Have you actually tried it? nb solid fuel allowance is a contribution not a complete cover. and not everyone has solid fuel heating. or access to a computer?

Yes I have. It was there for me when I needed it and I was grateful for it but there was little to no financial incentive for me to move off it aside from personal motivation hence my too generous remark. Right now I would fulfill the criteria of "being better off on the dole" , that shouldn't be the case.

Libraries are free or hubs could be put in intreo offices and most of the population have internet enabled mobiles.

.......

Experience of being on the dole for a period of time is not the same as being a long term welfare recipient who has been housed and receives other benefits such as medical card, etc..

If you lose your job and go on Jobseekers you get 188 euro a week (thats what I got anyway). It wasnt near enough to cover my expenses. I had a mortgage to pay, bills, I didnt have a medical card or any other allowances. So it seemed pretty bleak. The longer youre in that situation the more difficult it is to get back on track with the mortgage etc..

However, if my housing was paid for and I was also getting other benefits such as medical, it might be a much better existence.

El Weirdo

vectorvictor wrote: »

... most of the population have internet enabled mobiles.

But how would they pay for them with your food stamp system?

vectorvictor

El Weirdo wrote: »

But how would they pay for them with your food stamp system?

You my friend, have found a fatal flaw in the plan.

Go on then.... everyone should get 10minutes,10texts and a whopping 10mb per week.

na1

Sonics2k wrote: »

I was on the dole a few years after the recession.

I went from having a pretty well paid and comfortable job, was able to easily pay my bills and rent and raise my kids.

Recession happened, lost my job, partner eventually left me due to a mixture of stress and being a cheating twat, took the kids to the other side of the country.

Bills piled up, I had to move back into the family home until I was finally able to find a stable job and get a new apartment.

People love to go on and on about the 'easy life' on the dole, but after bills and so on I had about €15 a week so it was impossible to save up any sort of cash to move out.

That's because the person who was working for many years and paying substantial amount of PAYE, PRSI, USC still get little bit less than the person who never worked a day in his/her life.

El Weirdo

vectorvictor wrote: »

You my friend, have found a fatal flaw in the plan.

Go on then.... everyone should get 10minutes,10texts and a whopping 10mb per week.

And what about money for things like kids' Christmas or birthday presents?

Maybe they could be given tins of USA biscuits?

na1

Sonics2k wrote: »

There is a big attitude in Ireland that being on the dole = scrounger, even when we don't know the context or reason for it.

being on the dole for 5+ years = scrounger

Doctor Jimbob

vectorvictor wrote: »

Very easy to get stuck in a rut and hard to justify work. Leads to lack of ambition particularly if you are single person going to be earning minimum or even living wage.

I.E.
Social welfare - €198
Rent allowance/HAP, Medical card , fuel allowance, CWO digouts etc..

Work 40hours @ €10 per hour
Take home is €362
Your on your own for everything
Effectively working for €4.10 an hour (diff between welfare and work pay)

Welfare system way too generous.
Should be food stamps , clothes vouchers and a leap card to get to and from interviews.
Login to an online system weekly to upload a minimum proof of five job applications that are verified.

If ya gets the free money to spend on fags, vodka and Domino's why bother working eh?

Job Seekers is just that , money to support looking for a job.

vectorvictor wrote: »

Yes I have. It was there for me when I needed it and I was grateful for it but there was little to no financial incentive for me to move off it aside from personal motivation hence my too generous remark. Right now I would fulfill the criteria of "being better off on the dole" , that shouldn't be the case.

Libraries are free or hubs could be put in intreo offices and most of the population have internet enabled mobiles.

Leap cards, libraries and intreo offices are all well and good for people in cities. What about the rural population? Should they trade food stamps for bus tickets?

na1

Another example:

I pay substantial amount of income taxes and have no Medical/GP card.

I have to pay for every GP visit, so think twice about going to GP, as:
1)it cost me some money
2)I have to take time off work
3)My employer wouldn't like me being absent too often.

The person on a JA does not contribute a penny towards HSE budget,
though he/she pays next to nothing for GP visit,
can afford to visit GP any time without taking time off
Can afford to visit GP on any occasion.

I wonder if there is a statistics on how often each individual on Medical Card does attend GP, and compare this stats to people without Medical Card?

Sweet.Science

Im surprised couples working and renting dont just quit their jobs when they have kids . Jump on the gravy train

vectorvictor

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Leap cards, libraries and intreo offices are all well and good for people in cities. What about the rural population? Should they trade food stamps for bus tickets?

Obviously there would be a special rural allowance of a pair of walking shoes in place of a leap card.... And a laminated map with directions to the local Supermacs for free wifi....

El Weirdo

na1 wrote: »

The person on a JA does not contribute a penny towards HSE budget,

So they're exempt from paying VAT? Wish someone had told me this.

Lux23

Well, I was on the dole for extended periods twice. The first time was grand because I had redundancy money but the second time I had been living hand to fist until I was made redundant again, I had a little bit in my savings and I had to pay rent out of my €188 weekly allowance. These are the things that happened to me:

1. I lost contact with lots of friends because I had no money to do the things we normally did together.
2. I applied for a medical card but never got one, so I couldn't go to the dentist or doctor. I wear glasses and at one point they broke, I had to sellotape them up until my Dad paid for me to get them fixed.
3. Because I was so isolated I got incredibly depressed and then anxious when I had to go anywhere, including interviews.
4. I gained a lot of weight because I was living on vegetable pasta bakes and cheap ham sandwiches. Then I had very little to wear because what I had didn't fit me, and had no money to buy clothes.
5. I lost access to my bank account because it was overdrawn when I lost my job and I never had enough money to even put a little dent in it. The bank eventually gave me an account with a card that could only be used to deposit money.

The worst thing of all is that even though I am earning good money now and have saved a good bit of money, I still worry about not being able to pay my bills or rent. I can't imagine what it is like spending your life like that. The only positive was the free time, but free time isn't much fun when you have no money or anywhere to go.

seamus

nothing wrote: »

There's another downside - it costing more to work than not to because you end up losing all the associated benefits, not to mention possible unsuitable hours...

Yep, there's a "golden handcuffs" aspect to long-term unemployment, which makes it very hard to make the leap back into gainful employment.

I'm sure there's a way to mitigate this, but it's quite a specific thing and dependent on circumstances, that you can't come up with a general rule that would work in every case.

fryup wrote: »

*getting exspensive medical procedures paid for by the state

Everyone gets that.

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Im surprised couples working and renting dont just quit their jobs when they have kids . Jump on the gravy train

Because it's not a gravy train. Standard of living is quite a relative thing. For 90% of us, the money to be collected from social welfare and the "free house" over our heads will be significant reduction in our standard of living.

An analogy was drawn before about animals in a zoo, and while perhaps unnecessarily dehumanising, it's accurate.

When you've been earning, or you come from a family where people have generally been earning and keeping themselves afloat, then you get accustomed to that standard of living.
Dropping down to social welfare is a reduction in that standard of living, which you will desperately want to raise yourself back up to again.

If living on social welfare is all you've ever known, then the motivation to improve your lot is lost. You're comfortable, you don't necessarily feel like you're missing out because you haven't known anything better.

Even someone who has been employed, if they end up in long-term unemployment they will eventually cut their cloth to measure, and become accustomed to the lower standard of living. Which also saps any motivation to improve their position.

4068ac1elhodqr

With the coming 'gig economy' surely the plain obvious solution is UBI.
(Universal Basic Income)

Many on welfare could take up 8, 16, 24 hrs of random work per week
- without any fear whatsoever of loosing any benefits, interviews and form filling.

The benefit to the economy alone in terms of national production output alone would be massive.

Doctor Jimbob

vectorvictor wrote: »

Obviously there would be a special rural allowance of a pair of walking shoes in place of a leap card.... And a laminated map with directions to the local Supermacs for free wifi....

My local supermacs was around 3 hours drive away when I was last unemployed :pac:

vectorvictor

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

My local supermacs was around 3 hours drive away when I was last unemployed :pac:

You would be granted immediate exemption and eligible for the exceptional needs bonus transport allowance of walking shoes PLUS water

na1

El Weirdo wrote: »

So they're exempt from paying VAT? Wish someone had told me this.

Did you say "paying"? I though they are handing back some portion of their free Jobseeker Allowances.

PTH2009

you get put onto schemes like Turas nua etc, who say they will get u a job but they dont and make you do ****e courses

I work part time and do x and os but sometimes i dont even get anything from the social cause i work over 20 hours. Id go off my head being stuck at home 7 days a week.

Its hard to get full time work (even part time is hard) with all the migrants here and some places its like spot the irish man as these people will work for anything

Theres no doubt people on the dole who are getting extra money on the side selling certain stuff and questions are not being asked wheres the money coming from to but the new 18 land rover

jamesbere

Sonics2k wrote: »

I was on the dole a few years after the recession.

I went from having a pretty well paid and comfortable job, was able to easily pay my bills and rent and raise my kids.

Recession happened, lost my job, partner eventually left me due to a mixture of stress and being a cheating twat, took the kids to the other side of the country.

Bills piled up, I had to move back into the family home until I was finally able to find a stable job and get a new apartment.

People love to go on and on about the 'easy life' on the dole, but after bills and so on I had about €15 a week so it was impossible to save up any sort of cash to move out.

I hope you were able to get back up on your feet

Sweet.Science

PTH2009 wrote: »

you get put onto schemes like Turas nua etc, who say they will get u a job but they dont and make you do ****e courses

I work part time and do x and os but sometimes i dont even get anything from the social cause i work over 20 hours. Id go off my head being stuck at home 7 days a week.

Its hard to get full time work (even part time is hard) with all the migrants here and some places its like spot the irish man as these people will work for anything

Theres no doubt people on the dole who are getting extra money on the side selling certain stuff and questions are not being asked wheres the money coming from to but the new 18 land rover

Im sorry to hear that . My post wasnt aimed at people like yourself

Mam of 4

Riskymove wrote: »

people are using the term "on the dole" in these conversations and that tends to reflect the target of their comments - however I would go forward and say the issue is long term recipients of jobseeker benefits

OAP, Child benefit, Carers allowance,Illness and Disability etc. are all "welfare" benefits but I think it is clear that they are not what is being discussed

I think a lot of people don't make that distinction if I'm being honest , they think you have it made and are well set up if you say you're receiving Carers etc .
Respite Grant , sure that's your holiday paid for !
Carers , sure that's great , you can sit at home all day and do nothing !

What they don't think of is that most Carers would give their heart and soul not to have to be in receipt of it in the first place .

take everything

Sonics2k wrote: »

I was on the dole a few years after the recession.

I went from having a pretty well paid and comfortable job, was able to easily pay my bills and rent and raise my kids.

Recession happened, lost my job, partner eventually left me due to a mixture of stress and being a cheating twat, took the kids to the other side of the country.

Bills piled up, I had to move back into the family home until I was finally able to find a stable job and get a new apartment.

People love to go on and on about the 'easy life' on the dole, but after bills and so on I had about €15 a week so it was impossible to save up any sort of cash to move out.

How did you get assistance after moving back to the family home

Geuze

na1 wrote: »

I wonder if there is a statistics on how often each individual on Medical Card does attend GP, and compare this stats to people without Medical Card?

As expected, their attendances are higher.

http://www.esri.ie/pubs/JA201823.pdf

See table 2.

Lux23

na1 wrote: »

Another example:

I pay substantial amount of income taxes and have no Medical/GP card.

I have to pay for every GP visit, so think twice about going to GP, as:
1)it cost me some money
2)I have to take time off work
3)My employer wouldn't like me being absent too often.

The person on a JA does not contribute a penny towards HSE budget,
though he/she pays next to nothing for GP visit,
can afford to visit GP any time without taking time off
Can afford to visit GP on any occasion.

I wonder if there is a statistics on how often each individual on Medical Card does attend GP, and compare this stats to people without Medical Card?

I had no medical card on JSA and just didn't see a doctor.

forgodssake

The down sides have to boredom , lack of communicating with other working people , social exclusion , basic funds (for most) , and feeling of degradation and isolation.

The upsides have to be no early mornings , commutes , no work related stress .

Having never been out of work for a long period of time I'm only imagining how it would be for me . I'd hate it .
I give out and whinge about work constantly but kinda think the grass wouldn't be as green .

.......

forgodssake wrote: »

Having never been out of work for a long period of time I'm only imagining how it would be for me . I'd hate it .

I didnt work for 2 years and I loved it. It was the best 2 years of my life. I only got social welfare for the first year of it. I funded it out of a redundancy payment.

I was never bored and I communicated with other people daily, in the gym, by email, in the park, doing a part time course.

Im sure it would have been a much different experience if I didnt have the money to do it such that my standard of living didnt change.

I always look back at it fondly and it has fuelled my desire to retire as early as possible.

Riskymove

....... wrote: »

was never bored and I communicated with other people daily, in the gym, by email, in the park, doing a part time course.
.

a good point

it is not just about being on benefits but your lifestyle choices that leads to the issues being discussed

if people are just sitting at home or out drinking etc. that is more of an issue

you could be volunteering, in education etc

forgodssake

....... wrote:

I didnt work for 2 years and I loved it. It was the best 2 years of my life. I only got social welfare for the first year of it. I funded it out of a redundancy payment.

You were lucky you had the redunancy I suppose , it probably felt like an extended holiday ! . Volunteering would be a good way to pass the days as well . I just can't imagine waking up and not having structure like work to my day . I might love it if it ever happens who knows !

fryup

Riskymove wrote: »

it is not just about being on benefits but your lifestyle choices that leads to the issues being discussed

if people are just sitting at home or out drinking etc. that is more of an issue

you could be volunteering, in education etc

yes just because you're unemployed doesn't mean you're lazy,

i filled my days by volunteering at the local community garden and working in my own garden growing vegetables, as well as tinkering around the house decorating rooms and the like

.......

forgodssake wrote: »

You were lucky you had the redunancy I suppose , it probably felt like an extended holiday ! . Volunteering would be a good way to pass the days as well . I just can't imagine waking up and not having structure like work to my day . I might love it if it ever happens who knows !

I had a "working week" structure.

Up at the same time as when working, to the gym, leisurely workout then relaxing swim, home around 10am, leisurely breakfast. Clean up the house, read or hobby for a bit. Lunchtime, then study for 3 hours or so and then make the dinner for when himself got home. Walks in the park some afternoons with podcasts related to study.

My husband loved it - he had so much more free time because he came home to a clean house and a cooked meal. Both of us were less stressed. We also experienced him being redundant when I worked and I was equally happy at having so much more free time and no chores after work.

We would both like to get to a place where we can retire as early as possible having had the experiences of redundancy. I never would have said that prior to redundancy.

Itd have to be well funded though.

Guy:Incognito

El Weirdo wrote: »

So they're exempt from paying VAT? Wish someone had told me this.

If your son lives with you and you pay him 200 a week of an allowance, but then charge him 50 a week for bed and board, are you under some illusion you are now up 50 a week?

Sal Butamol

....... wrote: »

I had a "working week" structure.

Up at the same time as when working, to the gym, leisurely workout then relaxing swim, home around 10am, leisurely breakfast. Clean up the house, read or hobby for a bit. Lunchtime, then study for 3 hours or so and then make the dinner for when himself got home. Walks in the park some afternoons with podcasts related to study.

My husband loved it - he had so much more free time because he came home to a clean house and a cooked meal. Both of us were less stressed. We also experienced him being redundant when I worked and I was equally happy at having so much more free time and no chores after work.

We would both like to get to a place where we can retire as early as possible having had the experiences of redundancy. I never would have said that prior to redundancy.

Itd have to be well funded though.

They used to call this being a housewife. Most women won't admit it but they would prefer it.

LirW

Sal Butamol wrote: »

They used to call this being a housewife. Most women won't admit it but they would prefer it.

I'm at home now for over 2 years because baby, we had to cut back on some things but it's amazing. I can keep my partner's back free, cook meals, get on top of everything during the day, can do things that he can't do when he's on work and once we had dinner and the sprogs are in bed we can sit down.
Now it's not very challenging mentally but at the moment I enjoy it.

The big difference is though when people lose their jobs, that's not a choice they make. The lifestyle with one parent or partner at home is a budgeted choice.

seamus

Sal Butamol wrote: »

They used to call this being a housewife. Most women won't admit it but they would prefer it.

*I* would prefer it. Home all day, getting stuff done? Nice work, especially once the kids are older than 4.

That stigma is going away. The main issue is that women were forced to be housewives whether they wanted to or not. So when it became acceptable not to, there was a bit of a drive to say, "You're free! Go and be independent!". And women who chose not to were kind of looked down upon.

But society is now realising that staying at home is not the easy option at all, it's still work, it's still necessary. And that it is very beneficial in many ways for the whole family.

We do need to break the stigma around men staying at home though. More men should choose it if the finances allow.

vectorvictor

seamus wrote: »

*I* would prefer it. Home all day, getting stuff done? Nice work, especially once the kids are older than 4.

That stigma is going away. The main issue is that women were forced to be housewives whether they wanted to or not. So when it became acceptable not to, there was a bit of a drive to say, "You're free! Go and be independent!". And women who chose not to were kind of looked down upon.

But society is now realising that staying at home is not the easy option at all, it's still work, it's still necessary. And that it is very beneficial in many ways for the whole family.

We do need to break the stigma around men staying at home though. More men should choose it if the finances allow.

Very relatable post. Being a man and having been in the position of out working whilst mum stated at home I can certainly say I had the easy deal. 8 hours in an office is playtime compared to maintaining child and home.

Now separated but I would have loved the challenge of reversed roles. Do think I would have failed miserably in comparison to mums capabilities though . Maybe it's that fear factor / gender defined roles that is slowing progress

Mint Sauce

Sleepy wrote: »

It depends hugely on circumstances before you end up on it.

If you've never worked and have been give the council house, the medical card, the fuel allowance, the back-to-school allowance and the christmas bonus for the long-term unemployed and know how to play your local CWO, you're on the pigs back.

If you're renting privately or have a mortgage and lose a good job to end up on the basic job-seekers benefit without any of the add-ons that you're not entitled to until you've spent a year or more on welfare, it's a miserable existence.

It's probably tolerable enough if you're a young person still living in Mammy and Daddys and without any real responsibilities.

This. I was made redundant in 2010. Renting in a shared house, was reativly comfortable, could afford a few beers a couple nights a week, put a bit away for holiday once a year somewhere, and have a wee bit left over.

Next thing I was down to €188 a week, the nights out were a lot less and still had to pay the bills and the rent, but was not quite down and out. Couldn't qualify for rent allowance as my current payment was above the threshhold. Only way I would have got it, would to have moved somewhere cheaper, and be there for 6 months before got anything. Whilst where I was, was already not too bad for Sligo, somewhere cheaper would have been not somewhere I would have wanted to live.

At first it was not to bad being off, the World Cup had just started, and thought great, can watch the whole thing, but the novelty of watching it soon wore off. Had just learned to drive, something I had done in the knowledge of being made redundant, so could at least take off for a spin somewhere. Sitting up late at night, became more often, and very soon, I was not getting up till 2pm most days. That along with numerious rejected job applications, some not even answered, and dealing with power trippy social welfare, and FAS officers, did not do the confidence much good, and probably became boarderline depressed.

Gave my self reson to leave the house by starting running, and even though was pretty confident with computers, no offical qualifations in them, but even getting on an ECDL course, was another reason to leave the house.

Thankfully, working full time again now for 6+ years. Its not the best paid in the world, but the bills are paid, and have a social life again. So whilst the social welfare lifestyle might seem all glamour, if you did not choice to be there, it can turn pretty shit, quite quickly.

soups05

the downside? where to start, I had two jobs during the boom, factory during week, shop at weekends, only way to make ends meet cos i had 4 kids and a mortgage.

Recession hit and factory job gone, got redundancy so a bit of cash to keep us going. job in shop increased to 4 days p/w and everything fine i guess.

then job in shop started going bad, no money around so people started going to aldi/lidl. hours cut to two days per week and had to sign on. tis ok, only temp i thought. did a forklift course to renew my licence, but never got the licence cos the fas scandal hit. could not find a factory job anywhere.

decided to go back to education so started college, savings completely gone at this point, had to come to an arrangement with bank but kept head above water.

shop closed so i was able to concentrate on college, not much of a drop in money as i was only claiming for wife and myself by now. that was 2015.

got assaulted in 2017, broken jaw, missed some college and struggled to get back to speed, suddenly am depressed, have anxiety and can barely leave the house, but what ya gonna do? i needed the degree so ploughed on.

graduated this year. got my 2.1 in IT, started the job hunt...this is great, hundreds of jobs in the section that i am qualified for..yes.

been 3 months now, applying for anything i think i have a chance at, even those which ask for 2/3 years experience.

one interview......did not get job.

college buddy and i applied for same post, he had a 2.2 and i had a 2.1, he got an interview, not me.
why? can't say, only difference between us is am 47 and he is 24. that is clear from our CV.

so now what? do i keep chasing the IT job, go back to get my hon degree or just throw away the last 5 years of effort and try to get a job in factory/shop.

meanwhile, i sit at home, spend most of morning searching job sites, browse some boards/youtube/reddit. do some gardening, walk the dog, watch some tv, wait to die, try to work up the nerve to go outside without being terrified that i will meet the scum who attacked me or their friends. I have no life, no savings, no future. two of kids are employed in great jobs, they help out with money but i feel like a leech. my friends were all work based, i don't see them anymore. I sit here and wallow in the cesspit of my own mind and wonder how will i ever drag myself out of the debt am in.

one day the bank will want full payment again, then i guess am off to sleep in garda station, no newspaper for me and wife though, cos our kids are grown and successful.

I really wish i had not worked all those years, i would have been better off living off the state, getting a council house and staying there, not trying to make life better by buying a private house, but it was how i was raised, you work for a living, i was never prepared for sitting idle, never prepared for how much of my self worth was tied to being a provider, a wage earner. I am not cut out for sitting around spending other people's money. At first i was happy cos i had spent 25 years working for everything i had, so the dole was a safety net that i had earned.

now? i am pretty sure i have taken out more than i put in, way more than i deserve and more than i can ever pay back.

and the job? do not know if that will ever happen now. am old, too old for employers it seems, and am beaten down, crushed by the weight of the self loathing i feel.

fk the dole, fk the system that rewards those who don't want to work, most importantly, fk me for spending my entire life working towards being a failure.

misstearheus

I'd love if anything Social Welfare-related was only allowed in its' own Forum and no other place on the Site. It never ends well. Or maybe the Legal Forum if we have one. Yeah that sounds good. Anyone genuinely wanting to discuss the pros and cons of it can do so in the Legal Forum and hash it out there that's a great idea. *pats self on back!*

I would think if your whole life were lived through claiming welfare/avoiding work, you wouldn't live the meaningful life that paid work, volunteering or following some artistic passion gives. It's important to be in a job where you know your little bit of work makes things that little bit better for other people. At worst your paid work may be dull and insipid but you can comfort yourself by saying it will pay for the kids language/music etc classes and enrich their lives culturally, intellectually etc. At best, you get paid for doing a job that results in many grateful people.

If I had the misfortune to be on the dole I would almost certainly volunteer for something just to keep the spirits and self-esteem up. I've never got the derision in After Hours against everybody who's unemployed. It's stunningly immature and ignorant: we are not as much masters of our own destiny as we like to think and our respective realities can change quite suddenly, be it through unemployment, serious mental health problems brought on by stress or negative events in life (most commonly clinical depression) or having to give up work to care for a family member. Unfortunately, it takes that sort of thing for the more angry keyboard warriors to get a feel for any sort of bigger picture in life.

Sycamore Tree

soups05 wrote: »

the downside? where to start, I had two jobs during the boom, factory during week, shop at weekends, only way to make ends meet cos i had 4 kids and a mortgage.

Recession hit and factory job gone, got redundancy so a bit of cash to keep us going. job in shop increased to 4 days p/w and everything fine i guess.

then job in shop started going bad, no money around so people started going to aldi/lidl. hours cut to two days per week and had to sign on. tis ok, only temp i thought. did a forklift course to renew my licence, but never got the licence cos the fas scandal hit. could not find a factory job anywhere.

decided to go back to education so started college, savings completely gone at this point, had to come to an arrangement with bank but kept head above water.

shop closed so i was able to concentrate on college, not much of a drop in money as i was only claiming for wife and myself by now. that was 2015.

got assaulted in 2017, broken jaw, missed some college and struggled to get back to speed, suddenly am depressed, have anxiety and can barely leave the house, but what ya gonna do? i needed the degree so ploughed on.

graduated this year. got my 2.1 in IT, started the job hunt...this is great, hundreds of jobs in the section that i am qualified for..yes.

been 3 months now, applying for anything i think i have a chance at, even those which ask for 2/3 years experience.

one interview......did not get job.

college buddy and i applied for same post, he had a 2.2 and i had a 2.1, he got an interview, not me.
why? can't say, only difference between us is am 47 and he is 24. that is clear from our CV.

so now what? do i keep chasing the IT job, go back to get my hon degree or just throw away the last 5 years of effort and try to get a job in factory/shop.

meanwhile, i sit at home, spend most of morning searching job sites, browse some boards/youtube/reddit. do some gardening, walk the dog, watch some tv, wait to die, try to work up the nerve to go outside without being terrified that i will meet the scum who attacked me or their friends. I have no life, no savings, no future. two of kids are employed in great jobs, they help out with money but i feel like a leech. my friends were all work based, i don't see them anymore. I sit here and wallow in the cesspit of my own mind and wonder how will i ever drag myself out of the debt am in.

one day the bank will want full payment again, then i guess am off to sleep in garda station, no newspaper for me and wife though, cos our kids are grown and successful.

I really wish i had not worked all those years, i would have been better off living off the state, getting a council house and staying there, not trying to make life better by buying a private house, but it was how i was raised, you work for a living, i was never prepared for sitting idle, never prepared for how much of my self worth was tied to being a provider, a wage earner. I am not cut out for sitting around spending other people's money. At first i was happy cos i had spent 25 years working for everything i had, so the dole was a safety net that i had earned.

now? i am pretty sure i have taken out more than i put in, way more than i deserve and more than i can ever pay back.

and the job? do not know if that will ever happen now. am old, too old for employers it seems, and am beaten down, crushed by the weight of the self loathing i feel.

fk the dole, fk the system that rewards those who don't want to work, most importantly, fk me for spending my entire life working towards being a failure.

Do not give up. You will get a job in IT and once you have your foot in the door, you are sorted.

L.Jenkins

Deleted User wrote: »

The downside is that it can reduce the motivation for some people to better themselves. Also, the chances of increasing levels of alcoholism and drug dependency is greater where there is a generous welfare system.

To me, there was nothing more humiliating than having been stuck on Social for a time. So I took a 1 year course in Business and Accounting to compliment my Engineering degree. I now have a fairly stable job with decent money and savings now.

fryup

^^^^^^^^^^

in accounting or engineering ?

L.Jenkins

Moving into Accounting, but have Engineering to fall back on.

rob316

Almost as bad as been told I got a free house from the coucil by some **** who's nose is out of joint because he's saddled with a mortgage or rent he can't afford. I put my name on a list and waited and took what was offered just like anyone can do if they meet the requirements. It's not my forever home it will be too small soon and I'll buy a house with a mortgage I worked hard for.

Greentopia

I think it very much depends on your circumstances and frame of mind.

I've been on the dole a couple of times after courses or jobs ended and I admit I loved it.
Perhaps it's easier for me because I have no kids, no mortgage (own my own home) have very few bills, and I live beneath my means, not above them.

My routine every day on the dole- up around 7.30, gym, home for breakfast and listen to the radio, go to the library and read the IT and New Scientist magazine when it came in and browse for books, home for lunch, Skype my partner.

Afternoon- meet friends or go for a run, go online to research areas of interest for me in self employment including making contacts, write down any ideas for what I wanted my life to look like and how I would implement them. Knit and/or garden. Evening meal then early night.

Lots of upsides for me-free time, no bosses, no commuter hell, no workmates I had to get along with, no stress, I could take a nap or read whenever I wanted.

I did several courses including horticulture, sewing, Start Your Own Business, photography when I was unemployed. I didn't get depressed or demotivated or bored because I had like minded friends, a supportive partner and a plan for self employment jobs that I was determined to stick to. That was the key to succeeding for me.

I did also have a wonderful and very astute case officer in the DSP who I was able to talk openly to and he offered exceptional help on areas I needed-even telling me how I can be self employed while still getting the dole which is supposed to be a no go, even offering advice on what car to buy as I was searching for one!, and what to do with my finances so he could get me as much JSA money as possible
He realised I wasn't content to stay on the dole and do nothing and had good ideas for how I would get off it so was prepared to give me the support I needed.

Downsides to the dole- being dependant on the State, money sometimes being short, and I had to go to the PO to get it. That's it I think.

redshoes15

Made redundant in 2011. Hadn’t been to an interview or drafted a CV in almost 20 years. Had to google where my local social welfare office was. First time there to sign on was soul destroying. Every signing day for a year was soul destroying actually. Collecting money in the post office, as someone said before me, just felt wrong. Like I hadn’t earned it, it wasn’t mine and I was taking from others. A queue of 50 people behind me listening to the post office worker count out exactly €188. They knew I was taking their money (in my head anyway). Scrimping and saving for a night out a month after paying rent and bills out of my I’ll gotten gains on a Thursday evening. I used to collect it as close to closing time of my post office as I could after a few months as I’d started to get panic attacks. As I said, my claiming welfare lasted just over a year. I thankfully got myself out of it and haven’t looked back since. Funny thing is, once you’ve been there - you know how easy it is to get sucked in and get stuck there. To be honest I never ever plan on going back but we never know what’s around the corner do we?

eviltwin

Lux23 wrote: »

The worst thing of all is that even though I am earning good money now and have saved a good bit of money, I still worry about not being able to pay my bills or rent. I can't imagine what it is like spending your life like that. The only positive was the free time, but free time isn't much fun when you have no money or anywhere to go.

Completely identity with this. I'm back working a good few years now but the fear is still there. I still check my bank balance before a purchase just in case, got into the habit on the dole, it's never left.