How to Express our Displeasure with Politicians & Media

GarIT

animaal wrote: »

The idea is interesting, but I think in practice it would have minimal impact on the status quo.

Anybody whose work is in any way physical already finds that as they get older, it becomes impossible to keep up. They'd wind up on the dole instead of the pension. Of course, anybody who has never worked will continue to never work. And many of the others would find that, come 66 years of age, they will find some medical condition that prevents them from working.

If you look at today, there is a gap between people retiring at 65 and the age for the state pension. Those people wind up on the dole until the state pension kicks in.

I think for the idea to work, any change to the state pension would have to be accompanied by a change to the dole, otherwise people can just move from one to the other.

Some other countries work a proper "social insurance" system, where the base benefits are quite modest, but the more you pay in over the years, the greater the benefit you claim later. That is different to what we have here, which is basically a tax. Regardless of how little or much you pay in, everybody gets the same.

I agree, I did suggest changes to the dole in a previous post. I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with someone who doesn't have a pension going on disability as they get older if it's genuine.

I just like the philosophy of once you're 18 you should be preparing to support yourself for life with the backup of the state if you need it at times and the level of that backup should reflect your efforts to support yourself. Many people spend like they only need to support themselves until they retire and then it's up to the state. This just puts a strain on those who have planned to support themselves for their whole lifetime as they have to subsidise everyone.



Just back to the politics, Renua are a bit looney. If there was a party that was middle of the road to conservative socialist, with center to liberal non-economic policies I'd be voting for them.

DebDynamite

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Now there's a novel idea. If only someone had thought of it before;


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/disability_and_illness/disability_allowance.html

I’m talking about people on the dole. Unless medically certified unfit for work by an independent physician (not one’s GP), you don’t get the dole after a certain amount of time. Anyone medically unfit should continue receiving social welfare payments

GarIT

pjohnson wrote: »

And they should be excluded because?

Because they can still work I think was the point. So they shouldn't be treated as fully incapable of working. Except in some extreme cases where they should receive the larger disability benefit.

dxhound2005

GarIT wrote: »

If there was a party that was middle of the road to conservative socialist, with center to liberal non-economic policies I'd be voting for them.

That is Fine Gael summed up to a tee.

AndrewJRenko

DebDynamite wrote: »

I’m talking about people in the dole. Unless medically certified unfit for work by an independent physician (not one’s GP), you don’t get the dole after a certain amount of time. Anyone medically unfit should continue receiving social welfare payments

So no dole, then, after a certain amount of time? Zero income coming to those individual or families?

GarIT wrote: »

Because they can still work I think was the point. So they shouldn't be treated as fully incapable of working. Except in some extreme cases where they should receive the larger disability benefit.

That's pretty much how disability allowance works today.

One eyed Jack

DebDynamite wrote: »

Anybody who is able to work, but not willing should not be deserving. People should be deemed not medically fit for work by an independent physician.

I’m not meaning to be difficult as I do understand where you’re coming from, but I don’t agree with your criteria. There are many people in Irish society who choose to forego employment in favour of raising their children who I personally feel also deserve to be supported by society. The value of their contribution to society cannot be measured in monetary terms, but they should still be provided for and should receive support.

To give you other examples from just the last week alone, I was walking home from work Thursday evening and a young woman who clearly looked the worst for wear asked me for money, I think she deserves the protection of society. Yesterday morning on my way to work I met a middle aged man who had with him a shopping bag of cans and a can in his hand. We struck up a conversation and he told me of his upcoming appearance in Court and how he was granted free legal aid. He deserves the protection of society.

20 years ago, I deserved the protection of society, but I wasn’t aware of any supports for people in the circumstances I was in. It took me a long time to get back on my feet and get myself into a position where I felt I was contributing to society again. I’m now in a position where I meet plenty of people who are of the opinion that people who are in my position then, do not deserve the protection of society. I can’t tell you how demoralising it is to hear people talk that way and they would have talked that way about me when I was in that position then. I’m glad that they don’t know my circumstances or how I came to be where I am now, because if it were up to them to decide whether or not I deserved the protection of society, I wouldn’t be where I am now, in a position to be able to contribute to people who are in less fortunate circumstances than myself.

People who are deemed not medically fit for work already are entitled to claim either for disability allowance, illness benefit or partial capacity benefit if they are returning to work but their capacity to work is reduced by their medical condition. I don’t expect that everyone should be aware of what they are entitled to claim from the State in the form of either financial support or assistance via State funded initiatives, but attempting to prevent other people from availing of every opportunity to better their circumstances just strikes me as petty, mean-spirited, spiteful, and is something I could never support.

GarIT

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That is Fine Gael summed up to a tee.

I would have thought so but not really, the proposals in the OP are too far left for me. On other laws they are about where I'd want them to be, maybe they should be a bit harsher on serious crime and reoffenders though.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So no dole, then, after a certain amount of time? Zero income coming to those individual or families?



That's pretty much how disability allowance works today.

My previous suggestion was that it would go down to €50 after a few years. or that people should be transitioned onto a food stamp like card that doesn't allow the purchase of certain entertainment products or alcohol and cigarettes.

You're right, that is how disability works, I made a proposal about increasing disability to median wage after taxes so around €500 per week for people who absolutely cannot work doing anything. Another posted asked about ADHD, and then I replied and you replied and we have come full circle to back where we started.

AndrewJRenko

GarIT wrote: »

My previous suggestion was that it would go down to €50 after a few years. or that people should be transitioned onto a food stamp like card that doesn't allow the purchase of certain entertainment products or alcohol and cigarettes.

Have you tried living on €50 a week yourself? It would be nice to think that those who propose these ideas have actually proved them as workable.


And do restrictions like the alcohol/cigarettes thing actually work, or would it just make you feel a bit better about the whole thing yourself? Is there any research showing that these restrictions are beneficial? Do people just end up trading benefits anyway?

GarIT wrote: »

You're right, that is how disability works, I made a proposal about increasing disability to median wage after taxes so around €500 per week for people who absolutely cannot work doing anything. Another posted asked about ADHD, and then I replied and you replied and we have come full circle to back where we started.

Not quite back where we started, as I've managed to clarify that disability allowance doesn't get dished out like smarties, and actually is fairly difficult to get access to.

GarIT

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Have you tried living on €50 a week yourself? It would be nice to think that those who propose these ideas have actually proved them as workable.


And do restrictions like the alcohol/cigarettes thing actually work, or would it just make you feel a bit better about the whole thing yourself? Is there any research showing that these restrictions are beneficial? Do people just end up trading benefits anyway?






Not quite back where we started, as I've managed to clarify that disability allowance doesn't get dished out like smarties, and actually is fairly difficult to get access to.

Yes, I've lived on a little less than €50 for four years throughout university. It doesn't have to be €50, it could be €100, I think having something higher than €100 would be unreasonable though and as proposed you welfare payments would only go down by 10% a year so it would take 10 years without a job or disability to get to that minimum.

I'm not saying they work, just that they shouldn't be happening. Social welfare money shouldn't be used on alcohol or cigarettes. If it is used on that people will then complain that they are struggling to survive on the dole and not mentioned the night out they paid for that caused them to be struggling. I rarely drank in college, there were weeks I could have bought a bottle of vodka in Aldi for €11 but I made the mature decision to keep the money as I might need it later, I know others that didn't and then complained about how they had no money.

Fair Enough.

Idbatterim

Look, they simply don’t give a **** if they won’t lose votes or their seats. Presently, the only option is to vote renua. If you won’t vote for them because of other issues, suit yourself. This scandal dwarfs all others in the state currently in my opinion...

pjohnson

Idbatterim wrote: »

Look, they simply don’t give a **** if they won’t lose votes or their seats. Presently, the only option is to vote renua. If you won’t vote for them because of other issues, suit yourself. This scandal dwarfs all others in the state currently in my opinion...

If they are the solution why did they fail?

Idbatterim

animaal wrote: »

Our form of democracy, with Proportional Representation, facilitates coalitions. If the only parties in power are Centre and Left parties, then government policy will always be left-leaning.

If we had a combination of Left and Right in power, we'd be more likely to have balanced policy. Or even if we had centre/left and centre/right coalitions over the years, we'd see some policy swings, but a more balanced centre situation in the long run.

But the Irish continually reject right-leaning parties. The PDs ran out of support in 2009. Renua never got off the ground because people felt stronger about the stance of some of the party's members on abortion than about the party's economic policies.

The result is the situation we have today. If there's a block of people who don't feel represented today, it's because that block of people didn't vote in their own economic interests.

excellent post. An Irish right oarty, the pd’s or renua with say fg or fg, would only have us in the center. That’s the thing, we need an Irish “radical” part to balance things. This party would be deemed centrist anywhere else !

Ten Pin

Ten Pin wrote: »

where are they getting all their money from?

Politicians

.. Their job? :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

pjohnson wrote: »

If they are the solution why did they fail?

The idiot public for the most part and they said as much. I’d agree. The flat rate policy was jumped on. Too much for the typical voter here to get their head around. They’ve abandoned that now, they are against welfare increases and support income tax cuts.

They should be pushing usc abolition. They can be a nothing party and might win a few seats or they can take a gamble that the publicity usc abolition would bring, particularly in this climate, might be a big voter winner and get them a lot of publicity. Usc abolition doesn’t take much to get your head around for average joe voter !

Bear in mind that they now receive over 200k a year state funding, they didn’t the last time round. Also bear in mind, working people are more f**cked off than ever with welfare island ...

Turnipman

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Pensioners are richer now than working people. Is it OK to say that?

As a pensioner I am happy to confirm that you are 100% correct.

It is an absolute disgrace that my children are being screwed for tax, usc and PRSI to fund my comfortable lifestyle.

But what is a far far bigger disgrace is that FF's resident cretin Willie "big nose" O'Dea wants the government to give pensioners a further €5 increase in the coming budget. :mad:

I don't want it, don't need it but will take it if it comes and will give it straight back to to my kids

Noveight

That woman is on over a grand a week tax free on social welfare. Wouldn’t do you any good to think about it.

pjohnson

Idbatterim wrote: »

The idiot public for the most part and they said as much. I’d agree. The flat rate policy was jumped on. Too much for the typical voter here to get their head around. They’ve abandoned that now, they are against welfare increases and support income tax cuts.

They should be pushing usc abolition. They can be a nothing party and might win a few seats or they can take a gamble that the publicity usc abolition would bring, particularly in this climate, might be a big voter winner and get them a lot of publicity. Usc abolition doesn’t take much to get your head around for average joe voter !

Bear in mind that they now receive over 200k a year state funding, they didn’t the last time round. Also bear in mind, working people are more f**cked off than ever with welfare island ...

Ah so the majority is wrong? You would propose what voting system then to ensure the minority get to decide?

Spanish Eyes

Does anyone else think it is strange that a Government of FG (although minority with supply from FF,) is trying to straddle both sides of the fence? Labour in fairness is gone now.

They should be supporting those who contribute. But they speak out of both sides of their mouths really.

I think we should just have a totally Left Government and be done with it. That is what the optics are to me from the current crowd anyway, and I am not one bit impressed with them.

Best thing to do is go to your local FG "clinic" where the TD will be there and have a good oul rant. They might be relieved that you are not looking for a six bed house though, and laugh it off.

I don't care, we have a Minister in our constituency and I will be there toot sweet when they return from their holliers. At least I can say it face to face.

tayto lover

Turnipman wrote: »

As a pensioner I am happy to confirm that you are 100% correct.

It is an absolute disgrace that my children are being screwed for tax, usc and PRSI to fund my comfortable lifestyle.

But what is a far far bigger disgrace is that FF's resident cretin Willie "big nose" O'Dea wants the government to give pensioners a further €5 increase in the coming budget. :mad:

I don't want it, don't need it but will take it if it comes and will give it straight back to to my kids

That's what we all do I presume.
We help our children.

dxhound2005

Ten Pin wrote: »

There are some people in the country who want everything for nothing, scrounge off every one else and waste all their money on the latest trendy clothes and gadgets. Driving around in latest model 4x4, where are they getting all their money from? They're already dragging the country down and won't be content until they've ruined it altogether. A total scourge on society.

There's only one word to describe them...

Politicians

The good thing is that there are only 1167 of them, all on temporary contracts.

I dont mind increasing the SW payments.. but really not at the expense of an increase in tax on working people.

I live in a council estate. See the losers of society all the time. Sitting around the garden drinking and doing drugs on any given sunny day. throw their rubbish all over the place and have a giggle to themselves when the Council show up to clean the area.

Every Children's Allowance day they're queuing down at Centra for the deals on drink and stocking up for the 'childrens allowance' party they plan to have. Down to the Community Welfare Officer every couple of months for an exceptional needs payment for a new fridge or washing machine because the old one is knackered (ie; their friend wants a new one cos it broke, So Mr Dole gets the Welfare cheque, buys the washing machine and sells it to his friend for half the RRP). Back to school coming around; Book scheme is a pittance, and Aldi have a full uniform for €20, but somehow it's all too expensive and the months and months of notice they had that it was coming around didn't give them enough time to plan for it. Need to get some Welfare help to pay for it.


Meanwhile, In Casa-de-KKV, I am self employed, not really making enough money to justify self-employment, but I'll take what I'm given. Can afford to buy my house within the estate (cos it's a sh/thole, and sold at a discount) but can't afford to move out of it (ie; stuck here).

When my self employment dries up, and I have to go looking for the hand of SW to help me out, I'll be laughed at.

Of course the reason this issue won't be protested is the same reason the protest against increasing motor insurance flopped. The people against it have jobs and don't have time to be standing around the streets with 'funny' ( :rolleyes: )Father Ted signs on their day off.

The J Stands for Jay

tayto lover wrote: »

All guff but no solution.

The solution is to reverse the pension increases that bought the grey vote on the boom times and adjust it for inflation since then. The rate is ridiculously high.

Idbatterim

pjohnson wrote: »

Ah so the majority is wrong? You would propose what voting system then to ensure the minority get to decide?

No I’m sure the average Irish voter could bore you to death on tax policy and the implications of each... all it takes is one idiot left winger politician to say it’s benefits Ireland’s elites on 50,000 plus and the herd will follow ...

Turnipman

tayto lover wrote: »

That's what we all do I presume.
We help our children.

So what do childless pensioners do with their undeserved windfall of wealth transfer from the working demographic?

pjohnson

Idbatterim wrote: »

No I’m sure the average Irish voter could bore you to death on tax policy and the implications of each... all it takes is one idiot left winger politician to say it’s benefits Ireland’s elites on 50,000 plus and the herd will follow ...

So just complain on boards it is. You seem to believe there is no change possible.

Idbatterim

ILl tell you what I am getting a great kick out of. Decades of idiotic policy, vote buying. Is now coming back to bite them in the ass. The economy is booming and there is duck all to give anyone. Unlike during the boom, massive welfare increases here, tax reductions there. It’s all fine and dandy when everyone is doing ok. But with reduced living standards for many hard workers, I don’t think they are just going to sit back for much longer and watch this **** show unfold!

The increase in our oap population is going to be massive over the coming years, if like to see where they are going to pull the money out of their asses to pay for it !

All the benefits they get and the explosion there is going to be in them v the joke wage jobs they young are getting and the pittance oaidcin income taxes on them. This is going to get very interesting...

AndrewJRenko

Idbatterim wrote: »

Presently, the only option is to vote renua.

GarIT wrote: »

Yes, I've lived on a little less than €50 for four years throughout university.

Really lived independently on that? Funded your transport, your laundry, your leccy and gas bills and all that on €50 a week?

GarIT wrote: »

I'm not saying they work, just that they shouldn't be happening. Social welfare money shouldn't be used on alcohol or cigarettes. If it is used on that people will then complain that they are struggling to survive on the dole and not mentioned the night out they paid for that caused them to be struggling. I rarely drank in college, there were weeks I could have bought a bottle of vodka in Aldi for €11 but I made the mature decision to keep the money as I might need it later, I know others that didn't and then complained about how they had no money.

Do you think that maybe when we're screwing around with public money and people's lives, we should focus on things that work, not things to make us feel better?

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Does anyone else think it is strange that a Government of FG (although minority with supply from FF,) is trying to straddle both sides of the fence? Labour in fairness is gone now.

They should be supporting those who contribute. But they speak out of both sides of their mouths really.

I think we should just have a totally Left Government and be done with it. That is what the optics are to me from the current crowd anyway, and I am not one bit impressed with them.

Best thing to do is go to your local FG "clinic" where the TD will be there and have a good oul rant. They might be relieved that you are not looking for a six bed house though, and laugh it off.

I don't care, we have a Minister in our constituency and I will be there toot sweet when they return from their holliers. At least I can say it face to face.

We have a 'do-nothing' Government at present, given the dependance on the Culchie Alliance and FF. FG can't do their usual 'hard decisions' stuff, and no-one else can get anything through the Dáil, so it's just a matter of keeping the ship afloat until the next election.

GarIT

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Really lived independently on that? Funded your transport, your laundry, your leccy and gas bills and all that on €50 a week?



Do you think that maybe when we're screwing around with public money and people's lives, we should focus on things that work, not things to make us feel better?

Yeah. I didn't have to pay rent, and my SUSI grant was something like €2630 per year. It wasn't pleasant, I mostly ate cereal at home, the religious people in the school sold basic chicken rolls for €1.50 and aldi had microwavable dinners for about the same. I had a special type of gas it was called "put on more clothes". I'm not saying it was pleasant, but I was a student so the social welfare didn't give a ****, students don't matter in this country we treat them worse than anyone else, everything assumes they have parents to pay for **** for them, if they don't then maybe they should just give up on college and go on the dole is the response they give.

Living on €50 is barely manageable and I wouldn't wish it on most people but if you've been on the dole for 10 years with no disability than it's all you deserve. That would probably never be accepted in this country, so maybe €100 would be more realistic, but still we need a system of social welfare payments being reduced over time.

We already make decisions on what you can and can't buy. If you go in looking for the emergency payment (which they won't give to a student) because you want a new TV you'll get nothing, if you say you need a new washing machine you'll get it. If someone who has been on the dole for years wants a weekly payment we shouldn't be paying for their leisure activities, if there only on it up to a certain number of years give them cash, after that it should be food and bills vouchers.

Idbatterim

Mad talk. They deserve endless hand outs with no questions asked. Christ they are lucky they live in the worlds most apathetic country. Christ I deal with a lot of europeans and that kind of opting out and living a nice relatively cushy life isn’t an option in those countries...

Kivaro

Niall Boylan (4FM) is on the radio at the moment talking about Fine Gael TD Regina Doherty's plan to hit working people with more taxes in order to pay for social welfare increases.

While we should express our displeasure by contacting Fine Gael and Regina Doherty about this particular issue; conversely we should support politicians and the media when they express views that reflects the thinking of the majority of the Irish people.

Reminder on how to contact Regina Doherty:
Email address is here: regina.doherty@oir.ie
Other contact information for her is here.
And the Fine Gael party can be contacted here: finegael@finegael.ie

AndrewJRenko

GarIT wrote: »

Yeah. I didn't have to pay rent, and my SUSI grant was something like €2630 per year.

So that was your sole income for the year then? No summer jobs, no weekend jobs? And no other support from parents or partner, like laundry or food parcels or new clothes or phone bill or TV licence?

Kivaro wrote: »

the media when they express views that reflects the thinking of the majority of the Irish people.

If Niall Boylan reflected the thinking of the majority of the Irish people, Renua (or the PDs before them) would be running majority governments. That didn't happen.

ChikiChiki

I emailed the Regina Doherty the other day about the proposed PRSI increases and got this back from her private secretary.

"Regina Doherty T.D., Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection has asked me to acknowledge receipt of your recent e-mail, the contents of which have been noted"

I'm presuming it's a generic response and others have received same.

dxhound2005

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I emailed the Regina Doherty the other day about the proposed PRSI increases and got this back from her private secretary.

"Regina Doherty T.D., Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection has asked me to acknowledge receipt of your recent e-mail, the contents of which have been noted"

I'm presuming it's a generic response and others have received same.

You got a polite response because you sent a polite e mail. The ones that threatened to murder her family probably got something less pleasant.

tom1ie

animaal wrote: »

Our form of democracy, with Proportional Representation, facilitates coalitions. If the only parties in power are Centre and Left parties, then government policy will always be left-leaning.

If we had a combination of Left and Right in power, we'd be more likely to have balanced policy. Or even if we had centre/left and centre/right coalitions over the years, we'd see some policy swings, but a more balanced centre situation in the long run.

But the Irish continually reject right-leaning parties. The PDs ran out of support in 2009. Renua never got off the ground because people felt stronger about the stance of some of the party's members on abortion than about the party's economic policies.

The result is the situation we have today. If there's a block of people who don't feel represented today, it's because that block of people didn't vote in their own economic interests.

Yes but I want an economic right but socially left party, as do most of the silent majority. Why the hell is it all or nothing with the right? Renua got rejected because they were anti abortion and pro church. Ridiculous stances in a modern society. (Not sure what they were like on immigration but I get the impression it wasn't pro)
However their economic policies were in the main spot on.
Why dont we have a right leaning party that can get this mix right? It would sweep to power on a majority.

Idbatterim

pjohnson wrote: »

So just complain on boards it is. You seem to believe there is no change possible.

of course there is change possible! I am actually busy running several small companies. Any chance of a bit of hypocrisy there?

Idbatterim

tom1ie wrote: »

Yes but I want an economic right but socially left party, as do most of the silent majority. Why the hell is it all or nothing with the right? Renua got rejected because they were anti abortion and pro church. Ridiculous stances in a modern society. (Not sure what they were like on immigration but I get the impression it wasn't pro)
However their economic policies were in the main spot on.
Why dont we have a right leaning party that can get this mix right? It would sweep to power on a majority.

the abortion debate is over. Their social stance is irrelevant at this time. They would be against the stance of all others they would share power with. They could be relevant on economics, they wouldnt at all be on social issues.

Idbatterim

Why dont we have a right leaning party that can get this mix right? It would sweep to power on a majority.

I would love to have a crystal ball and know the answer as to how such a party would do. I reckon they could be 20% or so of the vote, MAYBE the biggest party, but I doubt it...

You need more than just good policies... That on its own wont do much...

tom1ie

Idbatterim wrote: »

the abortion debate is over. Their social stance is irrelevant at this time. They would be against the stance of all others they would share power with. They could be relevant on economics, they wouldnt at all be on social issues.

How can they be relevant on economic issues but not on social? There’s always, always a way around laws so that if Renua were to get in (very remote now) they could make it very hard to get an abortion etc etc.

Idbatterim

tom1ie wrote: »

How can they be relevant on economic issues but not on social? There’s always, always a way around laws so that if Renua were to get in (very remote now) they could make it very hard to get an abortion etc etc.

because they could pull FG to the centre, instead of FF or any other party dragging them to the left on welfare. The social thing, they are done, ireland is moving further and further away from the church etc. Their ship has sailed...

animaal

tom1ie wrote: »

Yes but I want an economic right but socially left party, as do most of the silent majority. Why the hell is it all or nothing with the right?

Very few will agree with any party on everything. But that's how our system works. The citizen doesn't get a say in every issue. We elect people who agree to follow a particular party's range of positions, not all of which we will agree with.

People have to decide what's most important to them when looking at the policies of the available parties. And it seems for people who lean to the right, financial issues are always low on the list of priorities.

The abortion issue is settled but people will find another reason not to vote for any right-leaning party, even when it's in their own economic interest.

jmayo

tayto lover wrote: »

Pensioners are mainly people who worked all their lives and paid taxes.
Do you think they don't deserve it?

Ehh not always true.
You do know that the ones that haven't worked a day in their lives also become pensioners.

dav3 wrote: »

It's amazing how some people (mostly non-Irish) are out of touch with the Irish people. It's amazing how little they know about Irish politics and Irish history.

Every decision on the tax you pay, the welfare budget, spending on health, spending on education, etc, have been made by right-wing governments. Looking at the polls, the next general election will probably result in another right-wing government. Why are some people having trouble accepting this?

Right wing my ar**.
We have one of the highest paying welfare systems in the world, particularly for the can't work never work brigade.

You do talk some nonsense.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’m not meaning to be difficult as I do understand where you’re coming from, but I don’t agree with your criteria. There are many people in Irish society who choose to forego employment in favour of raising their children who I personally feel also deserve to be supported by society. The value of their contribution to society cannot be measured in monetary terms, but they should still be provided for and should receive support.

Now if they are raising 6 or 7 kids, never worked a day in their lives and never even bothered to try better themselves. :rolleyes:

One eyed Jack wrote: »

To give you other examples from just the last week alone, I was walking home from work Thursday evening and a young woman who clearly looked the worst for wear asked me for money, I think she deserves the protection of society. Yesterday morning on my way to work I met a middle aged man who had with him a shopping bag of cans and a can in his hand. We struck up a conversation and he told me of his upcoming appearance in Court and how he was granted free legal aid. He deserves the protection of society.

20 years ago, I deserved the protection of society, but I wasn’t aware of any supports for people in the circumstances I was in. It took me a long time to get back on my feet and get myself into a position where I felt I was contributing to society again. I’m now in a position where I meet plenty of people who are of the opinion that people who are in my position then, do not deserve the protection of society. I can’t tell you how demoralising it is to hear people talk that way and they would have talked that way about me when I was in that position then. I’m glad that they don’t know my circumstances or how I came to be where I am now, because if it were up to them to decide whether or not I deserved the protection of society, I wouldn’t be where I am now, in a position to be able to contribute to people who are in less fortunate circumstances than myself.
...

I see you are replacing the word "entitled" with "deserved" these days.

BTW yer woman that was the worse for wear should stop drinking her money, or rather probably the taxpayers money.

Oh and the guy with bag of cans and getting free legal aid, did you ask him why he was in court ?
Perhaps it was like a lot of those on free legal aid who are in court every other week racking up convictions?
But of course according to some people they "deserve" their free legal aid.

BTW what do the victims of the crimes these people commit deserve ?
Perhaps it is to be beaten up, robbed and terrorised all whilst they are told by people like you that their taxes should be used to pay for the free legal aid for their tormentors.
All because of course they deserve it. :rolleyes:

As for yourself I would need to know the circumstances before I would actually say whether or not you deserved to be supported at some point.

One thing I will commend you on is the fact that you did your best to get back to contributing to society.

What gets my goat are the ones that never try and yet expect everyone else to pony up for them.
And if you stand back and look at it objectively I bet even you would reach a point where you would realise that some people do not deserve to be helped anymore.

5rtytry56

Idbatterim wrote: »

You need more than just good policies...

and casting aspirations on "oogling at the goodies in the shop - windows" which many Irish Politicians from all parties seem to excel at.

Lux23

Have you a Nissan Micra?

tom1ie

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’m not meaning to be difficult as I do understand where you’re coming from, but I don’t agree with your criteria. There are many people in Irish society who choose to forego employment in favour of raising their children who I personally feel also deserve to be supported by society. The value of their contribution to society cannot be measured in monetary terms, but they should still be provided for and should receive support.

To give you other examples from just the last week alone, I was walking home from work Thursday evening and a young woman who clearly looked the worst for wear asked me for money, I think she deserves the protection of society. Yesterday morning on my way to work I met a middle aged man who had with him a shopping bag of cans and a can in his hand. We struck up a conversation and he told me of his upcoming appearance in Court and how he was granted free legal aid. He deserves the protection of society.

20 years ago, I deserved the protection of society, but I wasn’t aware of any supports for people in the circumstances I was in. It took me a long time to get back on my feet and get myself into a position where I felt I was contributing to society again. I’m now in a position where I meet plenty of people who are of the opinion that people who are in my position then, do not deserve the protection of society. I can’t tell you how demoralising it is to hear people talk that way and they would have talked that way about me when I was in that position then. I’m glad that they don’t know my circumstances or how I came to be where I am now, because if it were up to them to decide whether or not I deserved the protection of society, I wouldn’t be where I am now, in a position to be able to contribute to people who are in less fortunate circumstances than myself.

People who are deemed not medically fit for work already are entitled to claim either for disability allowance, illness benefit or partial capacity benefit if they are returning to work but their capacity to work is reduced by their medical condition. I don’t expect that everyone should be aware of what they are entitled to claim from the State in the form of either financial support or assistance via State funded initiatives, but attempting to prevent other people from availing of every opportunity to better their circumstances just strikes me as petty, mean-spirited, spiteful, and is something I could never support.

Interesting that you think these people deserve to be supported by society. What criteria are you using? You didn’t know these people so you don’t know there history so how do you know they’ve contributed to society in the past? If they haven’t then surely they don’t deserve support from society unless they physically couldn’t contribute.
I’ll use the analogy of a credit union. You can take money out if you have money in the account that you’ve put there in the past, indeed you can get a loan as you’ve contributed to the shares in the credit union. However if you’ve no contributions in the account, you don’t receive anything from that account.

Kivaro

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I emailed the Regina Doherty the other day about the proposed PRSI increases and got this back from her private secretary.

"Regina Doherty T.D., Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection has asked me to acknowledge receipt of your recent e-mail, the contents of which have been noted"

I'm presuming it's a generic response and others have received same.

I did not receive any response from her office.
Looking back at my email, I was polite but added that policies like the one that she was suggesting i.e. taxing workers more in order to pay for more social welfare, would only drive existing FG supporters to other parties.

The reality though, is that I see nowhere else for them to go..... except to maybe Independents who want to bring fairness back to Irish society.

AndrewJRenko

tom1ie wrote: »

Yes but I want an economic right but socially left party, as do most of the silent majority. ...
Why dont we have a right leaning party that can get this mix right? It would sweep to power on a majority.

Economic right but socially left would 'sweep to power on a majority' eh?



Have you look at recent Irish political history at all?

tom1ie

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Economic right but socially left would 'sweep to power on a majority' eh?



Have you look at recent Irish political history at all?

different times my man different times.

AndrewJRenko

tom1ie wrote: »

different times my man different times.

I suppose you'd better get your finger out and starting working on PD V2.0 then. Given the level of certainty people here have about the huge support out there for extreme right economic policies, shure the whole thing will take off and run itself, right?


Strangely enough, if you want extreme right economic policies, the best thing you can do is vote FG, and hope they get a majority, or able to cobble together a Government with some crowd who have no economic position, like the culchie Indos. FG are basically unmitigated Tories, so if they get the opportunity to gain power without being dependant on Labour or others, they'll do the Tory thing in a flash.

McGrath5

Thanks OP, sent a mail to our lovely minister.

It may not make a difference but if enough of us speak up hopefully we can have our voices heard.

Idbatterim

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I suppose you'd better get your finger out and starting working on PD V2.0 then. Given the level of certainty people here have about the huge support out there for extreme right economic policies, shure the whole thing will take off and run itself, right?


Strangely enough, if you want extreme right economic policies, the best thing you can do is vote FG, and hope they get a majority, or able to cobble together a Government with some crowd who have no economic position, like the culchie Indos. FG are basically unmitigated Tories, so if they get the opportunity to gain power without being dependant on Labour or others, they'll do the Tory thing in a flash.

Absolute trolling fail!