Enforcing a determination order

utmbuilder

it's made the way the little ****e bags from etoll can come take your car with ballifs by turning a 12 euro debt to thousands yet you can't pursue large sums for rent after the fact.

Owlet

Does anyone know how straightforward it is to track someone down after they leave the property (assuming they don't leave you a forwarding address!). I will pursue our tenant for the money until the day I die. Will I have to employ a private detective or something?

Baby01032012

Do you have their valid IDs, PPS could track through HSE etc. do you have valid references to track through employer etc

Owlet

We have a PPS number and copy of photo ID I believe - will have to ask the letting agent for copies of information originally provided when he took up the lease. I don't believe he is still employed unfortunately.

Baby01032012

Owlet wrote: »

We have a PPS number and copy of photo ID I believe - will have to ask the letting agent for copies of information originally provided when he took up the lease. I don't believe he is still employed unfortunately.

Get everything agent got and check them yourself. I did that and found everything to be false and even most basic check by agent would have identified this. I’ve a case about to come before the courts against the letting agent. However I did loose €10k due to tenant non payment and overholding.

Owlet

That's very interesting. On what grounds are you taking action against the letting agent? Won't they just say they acted in good faith and did their best with false info?

Baby01032012

They could say that, that’s a risk. The level of checks though was very poor. Took me 10 mins to confirm work and previous accommodation weren’t real. Barrister is pretty confident. I’m prepared to take the hit if I loose. Principles cost money

Owlet

I ask because I discovered within 5 minutes of googling that the tenant had a criminal conviction for possessing drugs which we never knew about. We clearly would never have rented to someone with a criminal record. I cannot believe the letting agent didnt pick it up. Wondering if we might have similar grounds for action.

DubCount

Owlet wrote: »

Does anyone know how straightforward it is to track someone down after they leave the property (assuming they don't leave you a forwarding address!). I will pursue our tenant for the money until the day I die. Will I have to employ a private detective or something?

I understand the sentiment, but consider the cost vs benefit. Time/effort/legal costs etc. will probably make the collection of the money impossible or impractical. There is some chance the tenant may have moved from Ireland altogether, and even if you track them down and bring them to court, the award will be based on their ability to pay, and you could be decades getting your money back.

Its an unfair system, its wrong, but the rules of the game dictate the way you play the game.

Owlet

I appreciate that. And I expect I will calm down and make peace with it in time. But for now I am focussed on retribution and understanding my options!

Baby01032012

Owlet wrote: »

I ask because I discovered within 5 minutes of googling that the tenant had a criminal conviction for possessing drugs which we never knew about. We clearly would never have rented to someone with a criminal record. I cannot believe the letting agent didnt pick it up. Wondering if we might have similar grounds for action.

That may beyond the expectation of what an agent should find out but if a basic google search turned that up maybe. My agent had work reference with paper head from well known company with address in wrong location and misspelt, only mobile number, no reg address directors or companies office no. Accommodation I google which was a detention center for asylum seekers.

Owlet

Very interesting. Many thanks.

Owlet

Very interesting. Many thanks.

handlemaster

Owlet wrote: »

I appreciate that. And I expect I will calm down and make peace with it in time. But for now I am focussed on retribution and understanding my options!

Good on you. I think you can get an order against social welfare payments. Check Facebook. . Linkedin etc

utmbuilder

total random here but I read some case where a person was served via Facebook

sounded extremely nuts to me but it appears to have happened

Owlet

Hi all - a quick update. We have a solicitor and a court date (late October). I ended up finding the solicitor by asking the RTB for a copy of their panel of solicitors and then phoning round a few local ones. Would recommend others take this approach if you don't already have a solicitor.

Unfortunately it seems likely the judge will give the tenant a stay of execution to find a new place, and this can be up to a month, which I find absolutely outrageous given that the tenant is 100% scumbag and there are no extenuating circumstances. But anyway, looks like we should have the place back in our hands by early December which is all we want at this stage.

Claw Hammer

Owlet wrote: »

Hi all - a quick update. We have a solicitor and a court date (late October). I ended up finding the solicitor by asking the RTB for a copy of their panel of solicitors and then phoning round a few local ones. Would recommend others take this approach if you don't already have a solicitor.

Unfortunately it seems likely the judge will give the tenant a stay of execution to find a new place, and this can be up to a month, which I find absolutely outrageous given that the tenant is 100% scumbag and there are no extenuating circumstances. But anyway, looks like we should have the place back in our hands by early December which is all we want at this stage.

That is assuming that the case is not adjourned in October. Even after the expiry of a court order you may need to get the sheriff. I wouldn't be holding my reath waiting for early December.

Owlet

Why would the case be adjourned if it is so clear cut?

Is the sherriff quite quick or is that not the case?

Carlos Orange

Owlet wrote: »

Why would the case be adjourned if it is so clear cut?

Thanks for the update. It's interesting to see how these things play out.

If the case is so straight forward [and I'm sure it is] why do you expect the tenant to get a month to find a new place? The tenant has had the best part of six months to find a new place by the sounds of it [7k behind 2 months before the court date]. I presume your solicitor has advised you the stay of execution is likely. When do they think you will have the place back in your hands?

Owlet

The solicitor just said that given the current political climate around homelessness the judge would likely give a stay of execution of up to 28 days, but he didn't see any problems with our case at all. I was just curious why the previous poster seemed to think there was an even worse case scenario out there! This is all new to us. We will certainly ask the solicitor to push for the shortest stay of execution possible.

Carlos Orange

28 days after the court day is edging into a Christmas time frame. That seems like something people might make a song and dance about.
Anyway,best of luck.

Owlet

The tenant already has a criminal conviction (which we only recently found out about) and a judgement against him (again, recent). No partner. No kids. It's hardly a sob story.

Graces7

splinter65 wrote: »

The advice Threshold give is not unlawful. And there are still some appalling landlords who have a special place reserved for them in hell who need to be reeled in.

Thank you and you echo what I have often said from my own experiences with landlords. Threshold are sound. legal and supportive

True their advice supports tenants but that does not make it unlawful. They uphold the law so maybe it is the law you object to?

Claw Hammer

Owlet wrote: »

Why would the case be adjourned if it is so clear cut?

Is the sherriff quite quick or is that not the case?

Quite often, o the first day in court the Respondent asks for time to put in a replying affidavit. Also the judges put back any contested application to a day they have time to hear them. Your case may well be listed with 50-100 other items of business and the judge will only deal with a fraction of them on the day.

utmbuilder

it's unlikely they will show to court, so it will probally be the sheriff's after the court hearing

bit of luck tennant will do a legger before then

feel your pain ignore it if possible try keep on top of bills,

Owlet

We won our court case. Tenant didn't show up. Tenant instructed to pay us €10000 plus legal fees and vacate in 14 days. Now need to obtain court order (another 7 day wait for that apparently!) then serve the tenant again, which is when the 14 days starts ticking. The bureaucracy and slow pace of everything is exasperating but we are limping forward. It is really taking a toll on us mentally and financially. Thank you to everyone for your support here.

massy086

Owlet wrote: »

We won our court case. Tenant didn't show up. Tenant instructed to pay us €10000 plus legal fees and vacate in 14 days. Now need to obtain court order (another 7 day wait for that apparently!) then serve the tenant again, which is when the 14 days starts ticking. The bureaucracy and slow pace of everything is exasperating but we are limping forward. It is really taking a toll on us mentally and financially. Thank you to everyone for your support here.

You should really call liveline as all you hear in the media is high rents and bad greedy landlords.when your case is so comon now a days it's disgusting how the LL is treated.

MarkR

10k, but will you see any of it?

Owlet

MarkR wrote: »

10k, but will you see any of it?

Almost certainly not. The main thing is to get the property back in our hands.

airy fairy

Owlet wrote: »

Almost certainly not. The main thing is to get the property back in our hands.

Exactly.
We were owed €15k and tenant was ordered to pay us. Never seen it.
But we got our property back.
Property left in a state of disrepair, but got it back.
It's heartbreaking.