Grand Canal Cycle Path - Be Careful

Bob24

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

It wouldn't take a genius to figure out that constant patrolling for a week or two would calm things down a bit, but hey it's cold out there. Easier to watch CCTV and then react. Too late though.

I don’t know ... it would either move the problem elsewhere or temporarily lessen its effect before seeing it coming back once the patrols stop, but I don’t think it would have any beneficial medium of long term effect for the general public.

I think if people are tired with this kind of stuff, rather than complaining about the guards they need to think hard about how they want society to handle these thugs and get politicians to take actions accordingly. I can totally empathise with the guards lack of motivation to get out there knowing that they know all the perpetrators already, have caught them dozens of times in the past, but nothing ever happens down the chain.

IMO the main problem is not a lack of policing, but that as a society and through our politicians, we are deciding to do nothing about these behaviours and to accept them.

Spanish Eyes

Bob24 wrote: »

I don’t know ... it would either move the problem elsewhere or temporarily lessen its effect before seeing it coming back once the patrols stop, but I don’t think it would have any beneficial medium of long term effect for the general public.

I think if people are tired with this kind of stuff, rather than complaining about the guards they need to think hard about how they want society to handle these thugs and get politicians to take actions accordingly. I can totally empathise with the guards lack of motivation to get out there knowing that they know all the perpetrators already, have caught them dozens of times in the past, but nothing ever happens down the chain.

IMO the main problem is not a lack of policing, but that as a society and through our politicians, we are deciding to do nothing about these behaviours and to accept them.

Excellent post IMO, and articulates how I feel far better than I could right now.

The truth of the matter is that there is no deterrent for under age kids causing mayhem is there? I know it is going to sound very Right Wing reactionary to say this, but surely the parents should be forced to take responsibility for their errant and wild children. How this is achieved I don't know, but if the State washes its hands of so called petty crime by juveniles, well someone has to be responsible.

As for the adult drug dealers and messers, you are right, the Gardai are hamstrung with the revolving door, bail, fine, slap on the wrist approach.

I dunno, but I agree with you. What to ask politicians and those with some clout is a mystery though. Any suggestions?

We would have been totally grounded as kids if we committed as much as the tiniest misdemeanour. I'm ok though, it was never injurious, just a lesson. Good parenting I suppose.

Nika Bolokov

Another mugging last night. Again young kids.

sheriff2

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

Another mugging last night. Again young kids.

Where did you see that

G-Man

I asked the pharma worker about the Garda visiting the company in Grangecastle after an earlier assualt and after that the Gardai and employer adapting a recommendation of dont use the greenway.

He added the following, most of the cameras dont work, the drugs gangs have put them out of order so that there is no monitoring. In addition because of anti drug protests in more residential areas, the canal is used as a neutral low policing area. So any motion to increase policing is likley to fall flat because the same gardai are assuring residents elsewhere in west dublin that drugs dealers will be moved on.

I know that is anecdotal, but this is what Gardai discussed at a company visit.

Nika Bolokov

sheriff2 wrote: »

Where did you see that

Colleague in work cycling to Lucan told me. Not even sure people are even reporting these things any more.

tnegun

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

Another mugging last night. Again young kids.

Bluebell or Clondalkin end?

Nika Bolokov

tnegun wrote: »

Bluebell or Clondalkin end?

Bluebell , same spot just beyond the gates

Fann Linn

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

Another mugging last night. Again young kids.

Maybe when they kill someone the guards just might show some interest.

Nika Bolokov

Fann Linn wrote: »

Maybe when they kill someone the guards just might show some interest.

Sadly seeing the iron bars used recently this may happen if these kids continue to do this regularly with no consequences.

The ease with which they are doing this might attract older scum bags too given the value of the bikes going through Bluebell along with personal belongings

dhaughton99

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-conducting-grand-canal-patrols-after-attacks-on-cyclists-1.4118613?mode=amp

Cazale

G-Man wrote:

I asked the pharma worker about the Garda visiting the company in Grangecastle after an earlier assualt and after that the Gardai and employer adapting a recommendation of dont use the greenway.

Yeah I work in this area and we had a couple of communications recently warning not to cycle or walk into the business park using the canal.

A friend of mine was pulled at 6am the other morning by the guards for not indicating at the roundabout coming into the business park within a stones throw of the same said canal.

dhaughton99

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/bike-thief-who-assaulted-retired-rte-broadcaster-cathal-mac-coille-with-bolt-cutter-jailed-38796804.html

BIKE thief who jumped into the canal to evade capture after assaulting retired RTÉ broadcaster Cathal Mac Coille with a bolt cutter has been jailed for one and a half years.

GeetarPick

dhaughton99 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/bike-thief-who-assaulted-retired-rte-broadcaster-cathal-mac-coille-with-bolt-cutter-jailed-38796804.html

BIKE thief who jumped into the canal to evade capture after assaulting retired RTÉ broadcaster Cathal Mac Coille with a bolt cutter has been jailed for one and a half years.

Father of 4?! Jesus christ they're just gonna multiply and multiply.

Paulzx

Judge Greally said she could have only considered a wholly suspended sentence if Gibson was drug free but as urine sample results had not been given to the court she had to infer that this had not come to pass

Why would a judge even consider a suspended sentance for someone with 28 previous convictions after they assualted someone with a bolt cutters, stole a bike and had a knife in their possession?

Take them off the streets. End of

obi604

Paulzx wrote: »

Why would a judge even consider a suspended sentance for someone with 28 previous convictions after they assualted someone with a bolt cutters, stole a bike and had a knife in their possession?

Take them off the streets. End of

Oh sure there was probably a “reasonable doubt” in his head

rubadub

GeetarPick wrote: »

Father of 4?! Jesus christ they're just gonna multiply and multiply.

the bolt cutters could be put to good use.

Caledonia

Guy badly assaulted towardsRialto last night before 10pm. Down from 1st lock - cross road from suir road luas - along that walkway. 7 or so ‘kids’ and large sticks/bars of wood. He was on foot walking towards town. Surrounded him then attacked so they had him on ground. Punched and kicked him in head. Significant facial injuries. Eye closed over, nose pumping blood & swollen up, 2 lumps on back of head. Took and broke his phone in the melee and took wallet.
Thr level of violence used was shocking.
Gardaí who came said the canal patrols may have moved them down.

Not sure if they are the same gang but...modus operandi similar.

obi604

Caledonia wrote: »

Guy badly assaulted towardsRialto last night before 10pm. Down from 1st lock - cross road from suir road luas - along that walkway. 7 or so ‘kids’ and large sticks/bars of wood. He was on foot walking towards town. Surrounded him then attacked so they had him on ground. Punched and kicked him in head. Significant facial injuries. Eye closed over, nose pumping blood & swollen up, 2 lumps on back of head. Took and broke his phone in the melee and took wallet.
Thr level of violence used was shocking.
Gardaí who came said the canal patrols may have moved them down.

Not sure if they are the same gang but...modus operandi similar.

Little scum. Makes my blood seriously boil. Why, just why?
Good for nothin useless articles.

Nika Bolokov

Havnt heard of any incidents in a while.

Is anyone still using it ? Is it safe again ?

dhaughton99

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

Havnt heard of any incidents in a while.

Is anyone still using it ? Is it safe again ?

Apart from the woman knocked down by the scrambler the other day, haven’t heard much.

tnegun

Yes still using it stayed away for a about a week when it escalated in October/November. Still have the odd day with the same gang hassling cyclists but thankfully its has just been posturing. I would still tell anyone going past the 9th lock to Lucan after 2pm they do so at their own risk however.

Seth Brundle

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

Havnt heard of any incidents in a while.

Is anyone still using it ? Is it safe again ?

Two tweets...

1. 9th Jan...

https://twitter.com/maltanar/status/1215420919075700736?s=19

2. 17th Jan

https://twitter.com/SNicoullaud/status/1218169695272153088?s=19

a148pro

I hoped someone canvassed me so I could have a rant and ask what the **** the candidates are doing about the underclass of scum we are developing, indeed paying for when we give our taxes to the State. Paying to do **** like this, clog up our communities with anti social behaviour, use up resources in our health care and housing system. Unfortunately nobody called. But as far as I'm aware no political party actually has a policy on this. If they did I'd say they'd romp home, particularly as was apparent from peter Casey's opportunistic kite flying during the presidential.

I mean is there a branch of sociology that considers how you go about making society better for everyone in it by avoiding producing these kind of people? Unfortunately it looks like all modern political parties are totally laissez faire and there is literally nothing in the political landscape between there and nazism.

Asitis2019

Its completely out of hand...and the Gardaí don't seem to care

jay0109

a148pro wrote: »

I hoped someone canvassed me so I could have a rant and ask what the **** the candidates are doing about the underclass of scum we are developing, indeed paying for when we give our taxes to the State...

Eoghan Murphy called to my house last week and I let him have it about the increase in crime and especially in drug taking in this country and FG ,'the party of Law and Order', have done fek all to get a handle on it.
How many extra prison places or new prisons have they built in the past 7 years I asked?
He looked at me like I had 2 heads and that I was something that had arrived in from the 1950's. I got some half muttered spiel about increased resources given to Gardai but that was it.

We don't do prisons in this country anymore. There seems to be some middle class guilt amongst the D4 set abut sending habitual criminals to jail

sheriff2

tnegun wrote: »

Yes still using it stayed away for a about a week when it escalated in October/November. Still have the odd day with the same gang hassling cyclists but thankfully its has just been posturing. I would still tell anyone going past the 9th lock to Lucan after 2pm they do so at their own risk however.

I have started to come off it, and cycle up the ninth lock road, it's actually not bad once you get on the bike path.

thebourke

any word on the girl that was injured by the kid on the scrambler?i cycle that path every day to work....

a148pro

The problem with prison is that it costs a lot. We should only be using it as a last resort. Prior to that my concern is that these people are not taught at an early age that this kind of behaviour is not acceptable. They see enough of it around them growing up that is unchallenged and can also attract status among some in their communities. I think we have to address it there first. Stop allowing people go around their communities shouting, disrespecting other people, using drugs and committing petty crime, littering / dumping, vandalizing, bullying / throwing their weight around against neighbours. Stop giving these people free money and housing when they do this. Criminalize them for doing this, or at least punish them in some way instead of just turning a blind eye because the powers that be don't live in those communities.

To build more prisons you either have to raise taxes or close schools / hospitals. I think there's more cost efficient ways of doing this. Particularly if we involved respected people in those communities and a heavier and better informed garda presence. And made society fairer for people who choose the right path.

Thereafter the fact that for some of them going to prison is a status symbol and involves very little mandatory rehabilitation or requiring to learn alternative life skills is the next problem.

a148pro

thebourke wrote: »

any word on the girl that was injured by the kid on the scrambler?i cycle that path every day to work....

I mean this is a case on point - I used to live right where that happened, used to bring my kids out walking on the canal, great resource, but those ***** would be out on their scramblers wrecking it for anyone using it. Who buys or allows their kids to use scramblers in public places, after the long list of serious incidents, including people killing themselves in accidents? Some are recounted here but they don't even include the poor guy left brain damaged after a scrambler landed on him in darndale, or a fatality on Christmas day a couple of years back

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/woman-seriously-injured-after-being-hit-by-teenager-on-scrambler-bike-1.4157364?mode=amp

I mean who does that? Why do we tolerate it? Why is there no come back for them or their parents? Are we honestly saying that gardai don't have the powers to seize scramblers or criminalize this? You could pass a law in the morning which would achieve that, how are we living in a society that does not deal with this?

Effects

a148pro wrote: »

Are we honestly saying that gardai don't have the powers to seize scramblers or criminalize this? You could pass a law in the morning which would achieve that, how are we living in a society that does not deal with this?

I can't understand how they haven't passed a law to ban using them in parks.
Even if the bikes are legally owned, they should be confiscated and not returned.

mloc123

Effects wrote: »

I can't understand how they haven't passed a law to ban using them in parks.
Even if the bikes are legally owned, they should be confiscated and not returned.

We do not need new laws... we need the ones that exist to be enforced. Guards could confiscate these on any number of reasons already, they do not.

a148pro

I think we probably need both

mloc123

a148pro wrote: »

I think we probably need both

If the guards stop me driving without tax, insurance or licence... will they let me on my way? The have the power to lift my car, so why are these scramblers any different?

LeChienMefiant

mloc123 wrote: »

We do not need new laws... we need the ones that exist to be enforced. Guards could confiscate these on any number of reasons already, they do not.

It's (very) interesting to watch the stance of the Parents Against Road Carnage group. They seem to have taken the stance that roads enforcement and administration (confiscation of licenses) should take precedence.

Effects

mloc123 wrote: »

We do not need new laws... we need the ones that exist to be enforced. Guards could confiscate these on any number of reasons already, they do not.

What laws can they use to enforce confiscation?

mloc123 wrote: »

If the guards stop me driving without tax, insurance or licence... will they let me on my way? The have the power to lift my car, so why are these scramblers any different?

Because they generally don't use them on public roads, so they don't need tax, licence or insurance. Isn't that the jist of it?

tnegun

They frequently do use them on public roads but bolt to green areas at any hint of a garda response and the garda then give up. The they're not breaking any law or we have difficulty deciding if road traffic law should apply is BS.
These bikes are kept at home which has a public road outside and driven on a public road to green area/canal to cause nuisance. It would not take much detective work to figure out where they are kept. A sustained clamp down for 3/4 weeks would get most and then once every few months for several days would keep them under control. There is no will to do it is the issue.

mloc123

Effects wrote: »

What laws can they use to enforce confiscation?



Because they generally don't use them on public roads, so they don't need tax, licence or insurance. Isn't that the jist of it?

And how are they getting these scramblers from their houses to the parks and canal? What about 'dangerous driving'? I still feel if one day I decided to get in my car, drive to the local park and start doing laps of the grass... the guards would be pretty quick to take my car from me.

The solution to everything here is "we need a new law"... we don't, we need to enforce the ones that exist.

Effects

I see them use bikes over in fairview park, but mainly during the warmer months.
I've also seen them push the bikes to get there a lot more than riding them on the streets.

I used to call the Gardai about it but found they just didn't bother doing anything about it.

Had a close call a few years ago where they were driving a stolen bike on the main path and were aiming for myself and partner to scare us.
I ended up knocking the lad off at one pass, and we were trying to avoid them on the grass at that stage.

Managed to fend them off from attacking us on the main road as the Gardai showed up. They did fück all about it, didn't really want to give us a lift home, away from the group of savages, and then left the stolen motorbike with them.

Effects

mloc123 wrote: »

I still feel if one day I decided to get in my car, drive to the local park and start doing laps of the grass... the guards would be pretty quick to take my car from me.

Yeah, because you would be an easy target from the Gardai to enforce against.

Teenagers who don't care even if they do manage to get caught are harder to deal with, so they generally don't bother with them.

Dr_Colossus

Effects wrote: »

Yeah, because you would be an easy target from the Gardai to enforce against.

Teenagers who don't care even if they do manage to get caught are harder to deal with, so they generally don't bother with them.

Not just the teenagers/kids riding the scramblers but their families also, this is an example of what faces a guard trying to clean up the streets:

Thelonious Monk

The new raised path from North Strand to Sherriff St will prob be full of scum too, given its location.

LeChienMefiant

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The new raised path from North Strand to Sherriff St will prob be full of scum too, given its location.

It's the fact that there is one way in and one way out that is scary. Hopefully it will be high traffic which will alleviate concerns. I don't fancy being trapped in a tight space 60 ft in their air with some scobie.

Effects

Yeah, pretty sure it will be full of scum. It's not just a new route, but it's a shortcut between two rough areas.

Effects

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

I don't fancy being trapped in a tight space 60 ft in their air with some scobie.

One is fine. They usually only hunt in packs.

LeChienMefiant

I can't agree with the sentiments re them being rough areas. Locals requested that entries be blocked due to security fears. Plenty (most) of people in these areas are decent law abiding and respectable people that don't deserve to live in fear. I think they're wrong about opening up the place to encourage more traffic. Passive surveillance from increased footfall should be better than limiting access. I'm quite excited about this new route as it opens up more of the city to us, there are not many segregated cycle routes but we can safely get onto the Grand Canal from where I live.

Effects

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

I can't agree with the sentiments re them being rough areas. Plenty (most) of people in these areas are decent law abiding and respectable people that don't deserve to live in fear.

It only takes a small number of bad apples to ruin it for others that live there.
The route directly joins up two areas which routinely sees anti social behaviour.

LeChienMefiant

I think part of the problem on the outer parts of the Grand Canal as discussed on this thread has been drug pushers being displaced from residential areas onto the canal. The same thing is going to happen all over again with this expensive and valuable piece of infrastructure if communities don't claim this ground.

sheriff2

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The new raised path from North Strand to Sherriff St will prob be full of scum too, given its location.

The bridge itself is an eyesore plus phones constantly been snatched by lads on bikes there, this just gives them an easier escape route

Thelonious Monk

sheriff2 wrote: »

The bridge itself is an eyesore plus phones constantly been snatched by lads on bikes there, this just gives them an easier escape route

The whole area is a kip it's hardly blemishing the lush surroundings