Sheep winter fodder

Green farmer

What are people’s plans for getting the sheep over the winter this year. Any one going to do anything different ? Hoping to get enough silage here and stay away from ewe rations as much as possible as it’s climbed to €295 a tonne.

charolais0153

Green farmer wrote: »

What are people’s plans for getting the sheep over the winter this year. Any one going to do anything different ? Hoping to get enough silage here and stay away from ewe rations as much as possible as it’s climbed to €295 a tonne.

Same a ls every year. Good silage and nuts. Our land would go to soup grazing redstart or rape etc so its the only option

Siamsa Sessions

Going to look at a combination of fodder beet and concentrates this year.

Lad near us grows and sells the beet plus hay/silage is very scarce round us.

Went all concentrate last year and it worked grand but feeding twice a day is a pain

ganmo

we'll have enough silage made. one field is looking like it'll have a decent crop in a few weeks(its not late for us making silage yet) , the other field is a long way back and constantly getting clipped by deer

Dinzee Conlee

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Going to look at a combination of fodder beet and concentrates this year.

Lad near us grows and sells the beet plus hay/silage is very scarce round us.

Went all concentrate last year and it worked grand but feeding twice a day is a pain

Would you be feeding the fodder beet inside or out?

Fed ewes in lamb with fodder beet before, by just throwing the beet on the ground and they would eat every bit of it... Was good feeding, but found it awkward inside... In the end, I stopped... all depends how well setup you are I guess, it didn't work for me...

Green farmer

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Went all concentrate last year and it worked grand but feeding twice a day is a pain

Did the same myself from mid February gone by when I ran out of silage. Worked out ok as well, but expensive enough and the mill’s stuck the boot in with price increases when lads were stuck the most, so determined not to be relying on them this year. Also considering mixing in minerals into molasses and top dressing the silage with it. Anyone ever try this ? Wondering if it would be a viable option ?

ganmo

Green farmer wrote: »

Did the same myself from mid February gone by when I ran out of silage. Worked out ok as well, but expensive enough and the mill’s stuck the boot in with price increases when lads were stuck the most, so determined not to be relying on them this year. Also considering mixing in minerals into molasses and top dressing the silage with it. Anyone ever try this ? Wondering if it would be a viable option ?

never done it but I know its done in places.
would you try just sprinkling the mineral ontop of the silage? molasses can get awful messy

Green farmer

ganmo wrote: »

never done it but I know its done in places.
would you try just sprinkling the mineral ontop of the silage? molasses can get awful messy

The reason I’m thinking about it is molasses can be got in my area. I have the ibc tank with tap. Just a matter of filling a bucket and letting it soak down through silage. Ganmo, would you know much about the minerals, any risk associated with buying them and adding them yourself ? Can you buy premixed ewe stuff ? What way do they come mixed ? I know something like cobalt dust is very dangerous . I read before agritech sells the vitamins ?

Siamsa Sessions

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Would you be feeding the fodder beet inside or out?

Fed ewes in lamb with fodder beet before, by just throwing the beet on the ground and they would eat every bit of it... Was good feeding, but found it awkward inside... In the end, I stopped... all depends how well setup you are I guess, it didn't work for me...

We could do outside or inside. I was thinking inside would save the ground but haven’t given it much thought other than that.

What was awkward for you inside, if you don’t mind me asking?

wrangler

Green farmer wrote: »

The reason I’m thinking about it is molasses can be got in my area. I have the ibc tank with tap. Just a matter of filling a bucket and letting it soak down through silage. Ganmo, would you know much about the minerals, any risk associated with buying them and adding them yourself ? Can you buy premixed ewe stuff ? What way do they come mixed ? I know something like cobalt dust is very dangerous . I read before agritech sells the vitamins ?

I used to use agritech minerals for suclers years ago, just sprinkle on top of the silage, Molasses was discussed at the Tullamore Farm walk, Apparently it can be very variable as it's mainly water. Grennans have to test every delivery they get such is the quality.
Ether have good grass or good silage is the only way to reduce concentrate.
If your April lambing flock is out on good grass for six weeks before lambing you'd probably get a way without meals......that' if it didn't snow again
One thing you don't want is small lambs and no milk

Green farmer

After this year, you wouldn’t like to be a betting man on getting an early spring next year. In fairnes, Im guessing there’s hardly any ingredients in ration, where the quality doesn’t be vary at times.

Dinzee Conlee

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

We could do outside or inside. I was thinking inside would save the ground but haven’t given it much thought other than that.

What was awkward for you inside, if you don’t mind me asking?

Feeding beet outside is messy all right, the ground can get soupy very quick.. but it recovers a lot quicker than you’d imagine... I think it nearly did it good in places...
Having said that - it wouldn’t want to be ground you were hoping to have em out on early... I used to feed it to keep em out on shortish grass as long as possible...

I found it messy inside. Throwing it on the ground, they’d have the bed all torn up rooting through the straw to eat the beet... it made em a small bit looser too, which didn’t help...
But - like I say, maybe your setup is be better than mine was...

I found it excellent after lambing, just throw the beet in to the ewes... was very good for milk I thought...

Dinzee Conlee

Green farmer wrote: »

The reason I’m thinking about it is molasses can be got in my area. I have the ibc tank with tap. Just a matter of filling a bucket and letting it soak down through silage. Ganmo, would you know much about the minerals, any risk associated with buying them and adding them yourself ? Can you buy premixed ewe stuff ? What way do they come mixed ? I know something like cobalt dust is very dangerous . I read before agritech sells the vitamins ?

How do the numbers stack up - molasses+minerals+extra silage vs ration... be hard to work out the silage maybe?

Also - how would you know each sheep is getting the correct amount of minerals?
Maybe if you feed them at a face, and they all have room to eat simultaneously you’d be ok...

White Clover

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Feeding beet outside is messy all right, the ground can get soupy very quick.. but it recovers a lot quicker than you’d imagine... I think it nearly did it good in places...
Having said that - it wouldn’t want to be ground you were hoping to have em out on early... I used to feed it to keep em out on shortish grass as long as possible...

I found it messy inside. Throwing it on the ground, they’d have the bed all torn up rooting through the straw to eat the beet... it made em a small bit looser too, which didn’t help...
But - like I say, maybe your setup is be better than mine was...

I found it excellent after lambing, just throw the beet in to the ewes... was very good for milk I thought...

How much beet did you give em dinzee?

Dinzee Conlee

White Clover wrote: »

How much beet did you give em dinzee?

I think it was 1kg / day - which was about 1 beet / sheep...

I didn’t have many, a full link box every morning...

Green farmer

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

How do the numbers stack up - molasses+minerals+extra silage vs ration... be hard to work out the silage maybe?

Also - how would you know each sheep is getting the correct amount of minerals?
...

only tossing the idea about atm seeing what alternatives are out there. But, home made silage works out about half the price of meal. Cheapest ewe nut around here is €295 a tonne and it has a lot of very average ingredients in it.

Dinzee Conlee

Green farmer wrote: »

only tossing the idea about atm seeing what alternatives are out there. But, home made silage works out about half the price of meal. Cheapest ewe nut around here is €295 a tonne and it has a lot of very average ingredients in it.

What about buying a few ton of barley direct off a farmer? Or oats if you could get it - but that might be harder got...

Bag it up and put it away with plenty poison. Mix it through ration to reduce the cost of your ration bill... you wouldn’t need to roll it... you might want to think about minerals again tho...

I don’t know the cost of it, but it would surely be at least half the price of ration? I’d prefer to do this, than to be messing with molasses to be honest...

Dinzee Conlee

Is anyone going to put out more fertiliser this back end - given the deadline has moved from 15 to end Sept?

Or do ye view it as a bit of a waste of money, and would be better holding off til spring to put it out?

wrangler

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

What about buying a few ton of barley direct off a farmer? Or oats if you could get it - but that might be harder got...

Bag it up and put it away with plenty poison. Mix it through ration to reduce the cost of your ration bill... you wouldn’t need to roll it... you might want to think about minerals again tho...

I don’t know the cost of it, but it would surely be at least half the price of ration? I’d prefer to do this, than to be messing with molasses to be honest...

Ewe ration should be 18% protein, if you mix it half and half with barley/oats your ration drops to 14% protein, I know some say they're getting away with it, but are they, is this why the're giving lambs a Ecoli preventative down the lambs neck at birth because the quality of the colostrum isn't good enough, Is this why their lambs aren't 30+kgs at 12 weeks of age because of lack of milk.
Molasses is low energy and low protein and apart from putting 2%in a ration to keep down dust and make nuts it puzzles me why anyone would buy it at all
For cross compliance meal stores have to be vermin and bird proof so you're into a different league when making your own rations.
Will grain off the combine not heat and go off if you put it in bags, I know when we were young we used to throw it out on a floor and turn it a few times before we'd bag it.
I doubt you'll buy it less than €200/ton at the moment so will you save €50/ton....a lot of hassle for €50
There's nearly €50 ton to be saved by getting it blown in as oppposed to bags, I think thats the way I'd go first. vermin proof an ordinary shed and line with polythene.......I doubt I'd be bothered doing it myself, bags are very convenient

Green farmer

http://premiermolasses.ie/images/cane_spec-_DM.pdf

Here’s the link to the molasses, to be honest I wouldn’t be any way setup for home mixing concentrates. Just don’t like being dependent on any mill for the coming winter.

Dinzee Conlee

wrangler wrote: »

There's nearly €50 ton to be saved by getting it blown in as oppposed to bags, I think thats the way I'd go first. vermin proof an ordinary shed and line with polythene.......I doubt I'd be bothered doing it myself, bags are very convenient

Would agree with first go bulk, and see what savings can be made there - altho they would perhaps be long term savings, rather than savings for this coming year...

Re barley heating - we used to grow and keep barley at home when I was small, I dont remember it heating, it was bagged into pulp bags at the time... But - maybe there was more messing with it afterwards
I just put it up as might be an option for some - few lads near us would sell straight barley / oats out of their shed in the winter

We also used to mix our rations - on a very small scale. Lot of messing for little return - maybe the benefit you know whats in the ration. But if you are happy with your current ration, it would lessen the benefit of doing so...

Dinzee Conlee

What about rape / kale / stubble turnips - has anyone put these in?

Stubble turnips is prob the only one that could go in now, as its too late for the others?

Not sure how useful they might be for ewes in lamb? Would the ewes get destroyed if the winter was wet?

ganmo

Green farmer wrote: »

The reason I’m thinking about it is molasses can be got in my area. I have the ibc tank with tap. Just a matter of filling a bucket and letting it soak down through silage. Ganmo, would you know much about the minerals, any risk associated with buying them and adding them yourself ? Can you buy premixed ewe stuff ? What way do they come mixed ? I know something like cobalt dust is very dangerous . I read before agritech sells the vitamins ?

don't mix the mineral yourself the pain of weighing out the tiny ingredients and then having them left over at the end of the year would eat me.
You can get bagged mineral which are made up to do what you're planning. they're usually fed at about 20/25g per head per day.
any cobalt used in them minerals will be in a low dust format.

there's a pile of ppl making them, the top link in the page below will give ya all the feed manufacturers and you want the far right colum
https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/agri-foodindustry/feedingstuffs/listsoffbos-registeredandapproved/

wrangler

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Would agree with first go bulk, and see what savings can be made there - altho they would perhaps be long term savings, rather than savings for this coming year...

Re barley heating - we used to grow and keep barley at home when I was small, I dont remember it heating, it was bagged into pulp bags at the time... But - maybe there was more messing with it afterwards
I just put it up as might be an option for some - few lads near us would sell straight barley / oats out of their shed in the winter

We also used to mix our rations - on a very small scale. Lot of messing for little return - maybe the benefit you know whats in the ration. But if you are happy with your current ration, it would lessen the benefit of doing so...

Sourcing rations could be a real problem this year, apparently dairy farmers are supposed to be buying more and bigger meal bins to ensure supply, if ratons go up molasses will too

Green farmer

wrangler wrote: »

Sourcing rations could be a real problem this year, apparently dairy farmers are supposed to be buying more and bigger meal bins to ensure supply, if ratons go up molasses will too

That’s another reason why I’d prefer not to be relying on it either. Spoke to the biggest mill in my area and was told their not taking in any new bulk delivery customers atm when I enquired about getting a few tonne blown in.

Dinzee Conlee

wrangler wrote: »

Sourcing rations could be a real problem this year, apparently dairy farmers are supposed to be buying more and bigger meal bins to ensure supply, if ratons go up molasses will too

Yeah - it wouldn't surprise me...

Tell me Wrangler - do ye bolus the ewes during the winter?

Or do ye only bolus in the Springtime, when the ewes would be going from ration to grass? And rely on the minerals in the ration only in the springtime?

wrangler

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Yeah - it wouldn't surprise me...

Tell me Wrangler - do ye bolus the ewes during the winter?

Or do ye only bolus in the Springtime, when the ewes would be going from ration to grass? And rely on the minerals in the ration only in the springtime?

Cobalt very low here so I give boluses a month before mating and a month before lambing

charolais0153

wrangler wrote: »

Cobalt very low here so I give boluses a month before mating and a month before lambing

Just cobalt?. No other minerals?

wrangler

charolais0153 wrote: »

Just cobalt?. No other minerals?

I just mean that I have a cobalt problem but I give them all the elements, I use animax, I don't give them Copper, it works well here but the texel/lleyn can't seem to tolerate it. It used work very well in the pedigree vendeens, apparently copper is a natural growth promoter

early_riser

3 acres of redstart sown here 3 weeks ago. 5 acre meadow to be cut next week, not hopeful of alot of bales off this it looks light so even after this i will be short silage. Going to sow this field with rape after cutting aswell and i have another 4 acres spread for a cut of late silage if i could just get rain to wash down the fert it would be nice

Hoping the rape will keep down meal bill a bit, never sowed it before so not sure how much but willing to try anything this year

Siamsa Sessions

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Feeding beet outside is messy all right, the ground can get soupy very quick.. but it recovers a lot quicker than you’d imagine... I think it nearly did it good in places...
Having said that - it wouldn’t want to be ground you were hoping to have em out on early... I used to feed it to keep em out on shortish grass as long as possible...

I found it messy inside. Throwing it on the ground, they’d have the bed all torn up rooting through the straw to eat the beet... it made em a small bit looser too, which didn’t help...
But - like I say, maybe your setup is be better than mine was...

I found it excellent after lambing, just throw the beet in to the ewes... was very good for milk I thought...

Thanks for the info.

We'd be feeding them along a concrete passage-way with them inside on straw behind a feed barrier so they'd be sticking their heads out to eat it.

Did you feed straw or hay with the beet for fibre? I mean, is beet like concentrates and too much of it could cause acidosis?

early_riser

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Thanks for the info.

We'd be feeding them along a concrete passage-way with them inside on straw behind a feed barrier so they'd be sticking their heads out to eat it.

Did you feed straw or hay with the beet for fibre? I mean, is beet like concentrates and too much of it could cause acidosis?

Do you have beet ordered? Lots grown around here but most forward bought this year by dairy men and beef finishers

orm0nd

Green farmer wrote: »

That’s another reason why I’d prefer not to be relying on it either. Spoke to the biggest mill in my area and was told their not taking in any new bulk delivery customers atm when I enquired about getting a few tonne blown in.

they're not able to fulfil their dairy customer deliveries just now , let down a lot of people badly over the august bank holiday weekend

wrangler

orm0nd wrote: »

they're not able to fulfil their dairy customer deliveries just now , let down a lot of people badly over the august bank holiday weekend

Can't blame them really, demand is unprecedented

Siamsa Sessions

early_riser wrote: »

Do you have beet ordered? Lots grown around here but most forward bought this year by dairy men and beef finishers

I'll check with him later today. 4-5 ton would probably do us.

Siamsa Sessions

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

I'll check with him later today. 4-5 ton would probably do us.

He said we’d be grand for that amount anyway so just need to check now whether all beet (plus some concentrate) might cause acidosis.

Anyone? Will we need to feed a little hay or straw for fibre with the beet?

grassroot1

Here is my 2 cents Getting the minerals and protein in a mix you do yourself is impossible. If you can buy a ration with 18% protein (soya bean meal sourced)it will be hard to beat it. Getting the balance of minerals in a ewes diet is a fine line if you get it wrong sheep health is affected(more hardship for the shepherd)
Cut costs where you can but that might not be the place.
Scan the ewes and feed the singles less might be a better saving.

memorystick

Would this be a good year to buy store lambs? Thinking of buying 50 and grazing them on the silage ground and beet tops with meal. Hoping to buy December 1. Any advice. Thanks

ganmo

memorystick wrote: »

Would this be a good year to buy store lambs? Thinking of buying 50 and grazing them on the silage ground and beet tops with meal. Hoping to buy December 1. Any advice. Thanks

good to buy now, not sure about december though

early_riser

Was talking to a lad lives nearby yesterday he has sheep and tillage. He cut oats couple of weeks ago and kept some for himself was going to disc a stubble field and spread out the oats over field,then roll and let it grow for his early lambing ewes in jan feb give his grass a chance get going.
In another field he is going to sow maize in next year he has ewes grazing any volunteer grain and around the ditches at the min, going to sow a rye vetch mix middle of next month, graze early and get a cut of silage early may before he tills for maize. He says it would work well for someone that wants to grow beet or kale aswell.
Could be options for anyone with stubble fields to help stretch things a bit

memorystick

ganmo wrote: »

good to buy now, not sure about december though

I've no money at the minute and it should be Nov/Dec before I could buy stock. Even 1 lamb per hectare at that time of year should be ok with a pinch of meal.

Dinzee Conlee

Said i’d throw this in here, might be interesting for some...

http://www.nuffieldinternational.org/live/Report/1448138122MikeMillereditedreport

DJ98

Have very little hay made this year, was wondering if I ordered twice the amount of beet this year and used hay just as roughage would this suffice in lamb ewes over the winter. Is there any risks associated with feeding too much beet?

Floody Boreland

From the link provided by Dinzee Conlee...



All Winter Grazing for Sheep ... by Michael Miller
A
Nuffield Farming Scholarships Trust report
... generously sponsored by David Allen, Esq.

“To obtain this constant
supply of fresh grass, let us suppose that a farmer who has
any extent of pasture ground, should have it divided into 15 or 20 divisions, nearly
all of equal value: and that, instead of allowing his beasts to roam indiscriminately
through the whole at once
, he collects the whole number of beasts that he intends
to feed into one flock, and turns them all at once into these divisions; which, being
quite fresh, and of sufficient length of bite, would please their pallet so much as to
induce them to eat of it g
reedily, and fill their bellies before they thought of
roaming about, and thus destroying it with their feet.
And if the number of beasts were so great as to consume the best part of the grass
of one of these enclosures in one day, they might be al
lowed to
remain there no
longer;
giving them a fresh park every morning, so as that same delicious repast
might be again repeated.
And, if there were just so many parks as there required days to make the grass of
these fields advance to a proper length after being
eat bare down, the first field
would be ready to receive them by the time they had gone over all the others; so
that they might be thus carried round in a constant rotation.”


Rotational grazing from 1777.

Siamsa Sessions

DJ98 wrote: »

Have very little hay made this year, was wondering if I ordered twice the amount of beet this year and used hay just as roughage would this suffice in lamb ewes over the winter. Is there any risks associated with feeding too much beet?

Going to try a similar diet here too. Need to be careful of beet being bulky and ewes potentially getting too fat. I’m guessing the bigger stomach might also put pressure on the lambs chamber (can’t remember technical name!) and might lead to more prolapses.

Anyone have experience on here of using beet as the main part of in-lamb ewes’ diets?

Green farmer

Done another paddock of silage today but still going to be tight on fodder. Decided against chopping it this year, to reduce wastage. Anyone know the recommended ratio of bales to ewes to get over the winter ?

ganmo

try this
https://www.agriland.ie/fodder-budget-calculator/

tabby aspreme

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Going to try a similar diet here too. Need to be careful of beet being bulky and ewes potentially getting too fat. I’m guessing the bigger stomach might also put pressure on the lambs chamber (can’t remember technical name!) and might lead to more prolapses.

Anyone have experience on here of using beet as the main part of in-lamb ewes’ diets?

Fed a lot of beet to ewes for the last two winters , both in the fields and ad-lib with in the shed with straw , no problems with prolapse, used to add minerals into the chopper before chopping

Siamsa Sessions

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Fed a lot of beet to ewes for the last two winters , both in the fields and ad-lib with in the shed with straw , no problems with prolapse, used to add minerals into the chopper before chopping

Thanks for the info. Just need to find some straw now!

Green farmer

In all the calculators, they all leave it up to yourself how many days feed you think you’ll need, how many days winter feed are lads planning for this winter ? I’ve optimistically hoping to have grass up till mid nov, silage to start / mid March and plug all other gaps with meal ? How does that compare ?

charolais0153

Green farmer wrote: »

In all the calculators, they all leave it up to yourself how many days feed you think you’ll need, how many days winter feed are lads planning for this winter ? I’ve optimistically hoping to have grass up till mid nov, silage to start / mid March and plug all other gaps with meal ? How does that compare ?

Its hard to know . all i know is 50 bales(30-35% DM) does us for around 120 ewes. Very hard to actually calculate it when youre supplementing with meal and if there outside with a pick of grass