Breakdown of the overall welfare budget

tom1ie

There's been a lot of talk of a welfare state and people living off the welfare, but I've seen posts saying even if certain parts of the welfare were reformed it wouldn't save that much money in the grand scheme of things.
So I'm just wondering of the 20 billion or so, how much goes to disability benefit, job seekers, pension etc.
Could the prsi hike Regina Doherty's department are talking about be offset by reforming job seekers benefit etc.

mikemac2

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/

The government make it easy OP

Happy reading

Jim Bob Scratcher

mikemac2 wrote: »

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/

The government make it easy OP

Happy reading

Other = Michael D Higgins travelling expenses

Stanford

What about the €20m for the Pope's visit?

Gatling

Stanford wrote: »

What about the €20m for the Pope's visit?

How much of that will be made back ,if say 1 million people turn up and spend an average of €10 each in businesss across the city

99nsr125

Gatling wrote: »

How much of that will be made back ,if say 1 million people turn up and spend an average of €10 each in businesss across the city

That's circular not external resources being spent in Ireland

Stanford

And buy tacky souvenirs made in the Far East?

Are Am Eye

I hope they're hawking junior cert economics books at the phoenix park.

tom1ie

Jesus! 10. 8billion on debt and EU payments!! Bloody hell.

Geuze

I will post full DSP spending data tonight, if I get a chance.

Of the 20bn, at least 6bn is pensions.

mickuhaha

tom1ie wrote: »

Jesus! 10. 8billion on debt and EU payments!! Bloody hell.

That's interest only. There is no payment off the actual debt as of yet. Sorry 10.2 is interest and 0.6 is EU payment... For being in the EU more or less.

PistolsAtDawn

mikemac2 wrote: »

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/

The government make it easy OP

Happy reading

Thanks for posting that link.

We spent €2.81 billion on Jobseekers allowance in 2010 when the unemployment rate was roughly 14% and weekly payments were €196

And in 2017 with roughly 6.5% unemployment we still spent €2.1 billion with jobseekers payment basically unchanged.

SO roughly speaking we have half the amount of unemployed people but only decreased our spending by less than a third. Why?

Jim Bob Scratcher

PistolsAtDawn wrote: »

Thanks for posting that link.

We spent €2.81 billion on Jobseekers allowance in 2010 when the unemployment rate was roughly 14% and weekly payments were €196

And in 2017 with roughly 6.5% unemployment we still spent €2.1 billion with jobseekers payment basically unchanged.

SO roughly speaking we have half the amount of unemployed people but only decreased our spending by less than a third. Why?

What the heck is the other 17.9 billion going on?

mikeym

The way the government keep increasing the pension age il be claiming the dole at 70 because I will be too old to work.

Are Am Eye

mickuhaha wrote: »

That's interest only. There is no payment off the actual debt as of yet. Sorry 10.2 is interest and 0.6 is EU payment... For being in the EU more or less.

While we continue to have positive economic growth then each year the capital sum becomes smaller relative to the overall size of our economy.

c.p.w.g.w

mikeym wrote: »

The way the government keep increasing the pension age il be claiming the dole at 70 because I will be too old to work.

My OH's aunt is unable to get anybody to hire her. She is in her 50's and struggling to get by on the dole. But she's literally applied for 14 jobs in the last 2 weeks. We were giving her help with some of the online application's

But with the retirement age rising it's going to become a big problem for people who work in retail/hospitality & manual work.

SEPT 23 1989

I have no issues paying for the genuine cases

none

Mental issues etc they need to be protected looked after always

If we can't do that as a society we have failed

dotsman

Guys, don't mean to sound like a pain in the ar$e, but the second post in the thread contains a link that gives a very good breakdown of expenditure with very clear figures. Yet, already, we have lots of posts with either inaccurate figures or asking "where does the rest go", when it is very clearly laid out on the charts.

Mrs OBumble

PistolsAtDawn wrote: »

SO roughly speaking we have half the amount of unemployed people but only decreased our spending by less than a third. Why?

Even then, most of money went on the long tail: both parents unemployed, lots of kids (you get more dole for each one) ... who know how to get every allowance and one-off payment that there is. Little or not official work experience. Not attractive to anyone looking to hire above the table.

Your regular short term JSB receipient only claims for them-self: their partner is working, so the cost per head is a lot lower. They're more likely to get and do official casual work (X's and 0's - they only get the dole for days they're actually not working). Not eligible for Christmas double payments and lots of other bits and pieces, either.

Geuze

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Annual-SWS-Statistical-Information-Report.aspx

DSP spending data here.


2016 report:

http://www.welfare.ie/en/pdf/DEASP_Annual_Statistics_Report_2016.pdf

Geuze

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

What the heck is the other 17.9 billion going on?

Pensions = 7bn approx

Illness, Disability, Caring = 3.7bn, incl. IB, IP, CA


Children, CB = 2.6bn

Geuze

PistolsAtDawn wrote: »

Thanks for posting that link.

We spent €2.81 billion on Jobseekers allowance in 2010 when the unemployment rate was roughly 14% and weekly payments were €196

And in 2017 with roughly 6.5% unemployment we still spent €2.1 billion with jobseekers payment basically unchanged.

SO roughly speaking we have half the amount of unemployed people but only decreased our spending by less than a third. Why?

I'll check this data now.

JSA 2010 = 2.81bn

JSA 2016 = 2.452bn

First problem, % UNR is not the same as unemployed people.

I'll check the recipients now.

JSA 2010 = 262,000

JSA 2016 = 218,260

Geuze

PistolsAtDawn wrote: »

Thanks for posting that link.

We spent €2.81 billion on Jobseekers allowance in 2010 when the unemployment rate was roughly 14% and weekly payments were €196

And in 2017 with roughly 6.5% unemployment we still spent €2.1 billion with jobseekers payment basically unchanged.

SO roughly speaking we have half the amount of unemployed people but only decreased our spending by less than a third. Why?

We have the answer now.

The number on JSA did not halve at all.

It has fallen by less than 20% between 2010 and 2016.

tom1ie

Geuze wrote: »

We have the answer now.

The number on JSA did not halve at all.

It has fallen by less than 20% between 2010 and 2016.

What were the actual unemployment rates in 2010 and 2016?
Why is the graph of unemployed vs jsa paid out not linear?

suicide_circus

our biggest issue is the amount of low earners who pay little or no income tax. someone on 20k pays something like 500euro a year.

tom1ie

suicide_circus wrote: »

our biggest issue is the amount of low earners who pay little or no income tax. someone on 20k pays something like 500euro a year.

Yeah this needs to drastically change. Two tiers of a flat rate tax. Where everybody pays. Including tax on welfare.

oceanman

suicide_circus wrote: »

our biggest issue is the amount of low earners who pay little or no income tax. someone on 20k pays something like 500euro a year.

are you sure about that?

Geuze

tom1ie wrote: »

What were the actual unemployment rates in 2010 and 2016?
Why is the graph of unemployed vs jsa paid out not linear?

Bear in mind that JSA does not equal unemployment.

There are employed people on JSA.

There are unemployed people not on JSA.

As employment rises, the number on JSA may not fall.

A new job does not imply an exit from unemployment.

Geuze

suicide_circus wrote: »

our biggest issue is the amount of low earners who pay little or no income tax. someone on 20k pays something like 500euro a year.

My parents on nearly 50k pay 8-10% direct taxes, and get:

two med cards
two travel passes
free TV licence
35pm / 420pa off elec bill


Such a generous nation.

Geuze

tom1ie wrote: »

What were the actual unemployment rates in 2010 and 2016?
Why is the graph of unemployed vs jsa paid out not linear?

2010

Q1 ILO UNR = 13.7%

JSB = 123,457
JSA = 261,850

So 385,000 approx

2016

Q1 ILO UNR = 8.8%

JSB = 37,625
JSA =218,260

So 255,000 approx.

boombang

What struck me about the welfare spend when looking at the numbers (from a similar source) was that about 3% went on administration. While as a percentage that doesn't sound big, it's a massive amount in absolute terms. Given that much of it should simply be electronic payment I'm sure there must be scope for improving the efficiency of the face to face elements.

Geuze

What's interesting is how many people are beneficiaries of welfare working-age income supports.

This excludes pensions.


2010 = 1m people approx


2016 = 655,000, of which 585,000 are beneficiaries of social assistance, so not linked to PRSI.

Deise Vu

boombang wrote: »

What struck me about the welfare spend when looking at the numbers (from a similar source) was that about 3% went on administration. While as a percentage that doesn't sound big, it's a massive amount in absolute terms. Given that much of it should simply be electronic payment I'm sure there must be scope for improving the efficiency of the face to face elements.

What struck me was they gave the breakdown of administration under the welfare heading, probably because they thought the 3% was an efficient figure. I immediately clicked on the health spend to see the same figures and guess what we spend our €14 Bn on? Well one figure is €10Bn on the HSE and nearly €4Bn goes on 'Care programme'. That's really illuminating alright.

Similarly our €10Bn spend on Education mainly breaks down as €7Bn on "first second and early years education" and €1.6 Bn on Third Level. Its like as if they don't really want you to know where the money goes.

screamer

Geuze wrote: »

PistolsAtDawn wrote: »

Thanks for posting that link.

We spent €2.81 billion on Jobseekers allowance in 2010 when the unemployment rate was roughly 14% and weekly payments were €196

And in 2017 with roughly 6.5% unemployment we still spent €2.1 billion with jobseekers payment basically unchanged.

SO roughly speaking we have half the amount of unemployed people but only decreased our spending by less than a third. Why?

We have the answer now.

The number on JSA did not halve at all.

It has fallen by less than 20% between 2010 and 2016.

Course not it's all the BS "courses" and "schemes" run by the government to make it look like unemployed people are not unemployed but training or doing something small for an extra few quid on top of their benefits.