Who is at fault here?

GhostyMcGhost

Hi All

Sorry for the crude drawing.

In the below scenario, there is a roundabout which essentially just for calming. In this situation, there are 2 lanes leading up to the roundabout and 2 lanes at the only exit (12 midnight)

There are no directional arrows marked on the road, only 2 yield markings in each lane. Its marked as 2 lanes (i.e not a single lane with double queueing)

If the red car, on the outside lane, turns right to go back around the roundabout (and back to where they started, no other exits) and the blue car, on inside lane is continuing straight.... In your opinion, who is at fault for the below scenario? The red or blue car?

68 lost souls

The blue car has to cross the red car to exit the roundabout so they are responsible to check the lane is clear but you could also argue that left lane is for left or straight only

JPF82

Red car, why be in the left lane when going right? There might be exceptions on bigger roundabouts, but not in this case.

warsaw2018

red car in wrong lane
blue car at fault

Eric Cartman

left lane is for left or straight, and standard roundabout rules say whatevers to your right has right of way so id say the red car is at fault.


are you referencing a specific roundabout for this OP, see it all the time coming into dundrum when every single time where an idiot in a hatchback more concerned with her way to sandyford speeds down the 'left turn to rathfarnham only' lane and zips across infront of any other car.

ewj1978

simple roundabout rules.

Left lane for turning left and straight on. Right lane for turning right or heading back the way you came.

That would be how the law would see it.

Sadb

Definitely red car.

Trasna1

ewj1978 wrote: »

simple roundabout rules.

Left lane for turning left and straight on. Right lane for turning right or heading back the way you came.

That would be how the law would see it.

And it's also wrong. Right lane is for straight on or turning right.

Red car is in the wrong here

Wildly Boaring

Red is wrong all day long.

Why is this even a question?

GhostyMcGhost

Eric Cartman wrote: »

are you referencing a specific roundabout for this

I am. Will try to find a Google map example. Just to add of its relevant or not, it's a very busy roundabout, 50m after this roundabout is another round b, which I would be turning right (in a right turn only lane). If I approached from the left, the traffic on my right would not let me into the right lane so need to approach roundabout 1 (above) to be in the correct lane for 2nd roundabout

GreeBo

Happens all day every day joining the M50 from sandyford slip to Dundrum Roundabout.
Pr1cks pull into the left lane because it moves faster and then cut up cars going straight in the right lane.

Never understood why there isn't a traffic corps guy there just handing out tickets.

GhostyMcGhost

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Red is wrong all day long.

Why is this even a question?

Because insurance companies love making it a question

jaxxx

Red 100%. Dual lanes (entry and exit) allows right hand lane to exit straight ahead in the respective right hand lane, unless otherwise indicated. Left is 100% at fault for going past 12 o'clock, ever.

Trasna1

GhostyMcGhost wrote: »

I am. Will try to find a Google map example. Just to add of its relevant or not, it's a very busy roundabout, 50m after this roundabout is another round, which I would be turning right (in a right turn only lane). If I approached from the left, the traffic on my right would not let me into the right lane so need to approach roundabout 1 (above) to be in the correct lane for 2nd roundabout

It helps us to see where you're coming from but it's not relevant. Driver needs to be in the correct location for the junction they are in not the next one. In any case the red car is in the wrong, left lane is straight ahead only.

This near Miss has happened to me twice recently on the ballymun M50 exit.

BettePorter

I was waiting for a grey area scenario.....

It's scary that you're even posing the question and getting answers that say blue.

This basic rules of the road folks. In no scenario is red car in the right.

TheChizler

Are there any makings on the roundabout?

2Mad2BeMad

red car is at fault. See it happen every day on the walkinstown roundabout

grogi

Eric Cartman wrote: »

left lane is for left or straight, and standard roundabout rules say whatevers to your right has right of way so id say the red car is at fault.


are you referencing a specific roundabout for this OP, see it all the time coming into dundrum when every single time where an idiot in a hatchback more concerned with her way to sandyford speeds down the 'left turn to rathfarnham only' lane and zips across infront of any other car.

ewj1978 wrote: »

simple roundabout rules.

Left lane for turning left and straight on. Right lane for turning right or heading back the way you came.

That would be how the law would see it.

Sadb wrote: »

Definitely red car.

Trasna1 wrote: »

And it's also wrong. Right lane is for straight on or turning right.

Red car is in the wrong here

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Red is wrong all day long.

Why is this even a question?

jaxxx wrote: »

Red 100%. Dual lanes (entry and exit) allows right hand lane to exit straight ahead in the respective right hand lane, unless otherwise indicated. Left is 100% at fault for going past 12 o'clock, ever.

RSA was founded to promote safety on the roads... And ironically it looks RSA make the roads more dangerous place..

RSA does not make law! Forget those ridiculous rules 'left lane for going left or straight, right for turning right'.

warsaw2018

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Red is wrong all day long.

Why is this even a question?

blue car should have expected the stupidity of red car and taken evasive action

grogi

warsaw2018 wrote: »

blue car should have expected the stupidity of red car and taken evasive action

There are idiots out there - the best evasive action is to stay home...

fullstop

GreeBo wrote: »

Happens all day every day joining the M50 from sandyford slip to Dundrum Roundabout.
Pr1cks pull into the left lane because it moves faster and then cut up cars going straight in the right lane.

Never understood why there isn't a traffic corps guy there just handing out tickets.

I've seen them at the roundabout at Wesley pulling cars skipping the queue and pulling in and at the one at Tesco, but never at that one. All 3 roundabouts are a clusterfúck.

grogi

BettePorter wrote: »

This basic rules of the road folks. In no scenario is red car in the right.

Which rule would that be? Can you quote the relevant SI section?! I bet you can't.

Trasna1

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

red car is at fault. See it happen every day on the walkinstown roundabout

I hate that junction and actively avoid it.
I don't think I could deal with it every day.

TheChizler

BettePorter wrote: »

This basic rules of the road folks. In no scenario is red car in the right.

If the lanes on the roundabout were concentric circles the red car would have been staying in its lane and the blue car would have crossed lanes without yielding. Common enough on roundabouts with no 9 o'clock exit. OP needs more details.

Eric Cartman

TheChizler wrote: »

If the lanes on the roundabout were concentric circles the red car would have been staying in its lane and the blue car would have crossed lanes without yielding. Common enough on roundabouts with no 9 o'clock exit. OP needs more details.

how is any traffic on the inner lane of a roundabout supposed to leave a roundabout if outer lanes don't yield to it ?

BettePorter

grogi wrote: »

BettePorter wrote: »

This basic rules of the road folks. In no scenario is red car in the right.

Which rule would that be? Can you quote the relevant SI section?! I bet you can't.

You'd win the bet ......but you'd be the idiot in the red car going round the roundabout in the outside lane.

grogi

Eric Cartman wrote: »

how is any traffic on the inner lane of a roundabout supposed to leave a roundabout if outer lanes don't yield to it ?

Stop and wait until it has free way. Basic stuff really.

BettePorter

grogi wrote: »

BettePorter wrote: »

This basic rules of the road folks. In no scenario is red car in the right.

Which rule would that be? Can you quote the relevant SI section?! I bet you can't.

You'd win the bet ......but you'd also be the idiot in the red car going round the roundabout in the outside lane.

grogi

BettePorter wrote: »

You'd win the bet ......but you'd be the idiot in the red car going round the roundabout in the outside lane.

Please restrain from calling names here. Many times...

If you cannot quote any lawful source of your belief, why do you even bother?

TheChizler

Eric Cartman wrote: »

how is any traffic on the inner lane of a roundabout supposed to leave a roundabout if outer lanes don't yield to it ?

How does traffic leave lane 2 or 3 of a dual carriageway? They plan their movements in good time and cross lanes when safe. This roundabout is just a very bendy dual carriageway.

GhostyMcGhost

GhostyMcGhost wrote: »

Because insurance companies love making it a question

I don't think the insurance company will care who was going where, will they?


They'd be more interested in who hit who and where? ie; red car might be in the wrong lane, but if blue car drove into the side of the red car, blue will be found at fault..?

grogi

TheChizler wrote: »

How does traffic leave lane 2 or 3 of a dual carriageway? They plan their movements in good time and cross lanes when safe. This roundabout is just a very bendy dual carriageway.

Exactly. Which, as this thread clearly shows, is an absolutely horrendous idea...

Why are Irish road engineers incapable of designing a proper spiral roundabout?

The Rape of Lucretia

Outside lane if taking first or second exit was the way we were taught back in the day. Inside lane if 3rd or subsequent.
There being no 3rd or subsequent in this case, you have to have have sympathy for the blue car. Essentially, if they end up in the inside line in this case, there being no correct exit, they must continue around, on that inside lane until the end of time. You often see cars just going around and around, but at least they are driving correctly.

honda boi

grogi wrote: »

RSA was founded to promote safety on the roads... And ironically it looks RSA make the roads more dangerous place..

RSA does not make law! Forget those ridiculous rules 'left lane for going left or straight, right for turning right'.

So the blue car would be at fault?
Pretty sure your thought by a driving instructor that left is for anything before and on 12 o'clock only and right for anything after 12 o'clock ?

Cookie_Monster

The council who approved that roundabout in the first place are clearly the ones at fault here. :pac:

grogi

honda boi wrote: »

So the blue car would be at fault?

Yes. "A driver shall not drive from one traffic lane to another without good cause, and without yielding the right of way to traffic in that other lane." (S.I. No. 294/1964, Section 17 (3)"

Pretty sure your thought by a driving instructor that left is for anything before and on 12 o'clock only and right for anything after 12 o'clock ?

I wasn't. It would be useless to me, as I am often confused if my exit is at five to twelve or five past twelve...

There is nothing however preventing you from doing so if you wish. Or doing completely opposite... Just remember: yield when crossing dotted line.

Eric Cartman

grogi wrote: »

Stop and wait until it has free way. Basic stuff really.

TheChizler wrote: »

How does traffic leave lane 2 or 3 of a dual carriageway? They plan their movements in good time and cross lanes when safe. This roundabout is just a very bendy dual carriageway.

gorge, considering the below, moving from lane 2 to lane 1 on a dual carraigeway, do you just stop in the laneway and wait for lane 1 to free up ?

grogi

Eric Cartman wrote: »

gorge, considering the below, moving from lane 2 to lane 1 on a dual carraigeway, do you just stop in the laneway and wait for lane 1 to free up ?

Are you saying you'd just ram your vehicle into the cars in the lane 1, right?

BettePorter

grogi wrote: »

BettePorter wrote: »

You'd win the bet ......but you'd be the idiot in the red car going round the roundabout in the outside lane.

Please restrain from calling names here. Many times...

If you cannot quote any lawful source of your belief, why do you even bother?

Oh pls ....you're trying to say I'm being personal ??? You're seriously gonna be that person who drives around the outside of the roundabout ...just because you can and have every right to ? Rather than be a normal person and use the roundabout with a bit of common sense and courtesy and get on with your day ?

You're gonna be that guy ? Alright fella . If you use a round about like you claim is perfectly fine to do so (however discourteous ) then you're no someone who is ever gonna agree with me ....who has a life and doesn't spend it trying to spout legislation or lack thereof at ppl. The red car is in the wrong. Have a bit of consideration for road users grogi. ...not spout ....oh well I have every right to be here its up to you to evade me ****e

V8 Interceptor

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Red is wrong all day long.

Why is this even a question?

Either its a trick question or I'm missing something too.

andekwarhola

GreeBo wrote: »

Happens all day every day joining the M50 from sandyford slip to Dundrum Roundabout.
Pr1cks pull into the left lane because it moves faster and then cut up cars going straight in the right lane.

Never understood why there isn't a traffic corps guy there just handing out tickets.

Drive through that roundabout a lot. Have seen a few collisions alright.

On the OP, red car looks at fault to me.

V8 Interceptor

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Outside lane if taking first or second exit was the way we were taught back in the day. Inside lane if 3rd or subsequent.
There being no 3rd or subsequent in this case, you have to have have sympathy for the blue car. Essentially, if they end up in the inside line in this case, there being no correct exit, they must continue around, on that inside lane until the end of time. You often see cars just going around and around, but at least they are driving correctly.

WTF?

andekwarhola

grogi wrote: »

Stop and wait until it has free way. Basic stuff really.

As in suddenly stop in the middle of a roundabout when somebody cuts across you trying to go round the roundabout in the outside lane?

jaxxx

Jesus some of the responses are worrying me. It's very simple, it's called the Golden Rule and it's the same globally, just invert for right hand drive countries.

- Exits from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock: LEFT HAND LANE ***
- Exits from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock: RIGHT HAND LANE ***

Crystal clear black and white. Doesn't matter how many exit lanes there is, whether it's 2, 3, 4, or 100! The same rule applies. And whichever exit you're coming from is 6 o'clock, didn't think I needed to say that but given some of the responses I figured it be better safe than sorry!

*** UNLESS STATED OTHERWISE OF COURSE BY SIGNPOST, ROAD MARKINGS, ETC

^^ And in the case of dual entry and exit lanes, the right hand lane can unless otherwise shown be used for 12 o'clock into the right hand exit lane.

V8 Interceptor

What is the point of the OP's Roundabout? There's no exits other than to do a 180. Are there such things in existence?

beauf

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

What is the point of the OP's Roundabout? There's no exits other than to do a 180. Are there such things in existence?

Yes usually where they plan to add the 3 and 9 o clock roads later.

V8 Interceptor

So it'd kinda be a roundabout/roads still in the process of being built?

firstlight

Some laugh reading some of the replys

You need eyes in the back of your head for roundabouts In this country, most drivers haven't a clue what to be doing and just close their eyes and hope for the best

beauf

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

So it'd kinda be a roundabout/roads still in the process of being built?

Kinda. They can be there for years.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4133728,-6.3963857,3a,75y,283.34h,74.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOyzauAdL3YTzAJDnbxvmiw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Sadb

grogi wrote: »

Which rule would that be? Can you quote the relevant SI section?! I bet you can't.

Here you go
http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/Roundabouts_DL_2012_v3.pdf

TheChizler

andekwarhola wrote: »

As in suddenly stop in the middle of a roundabout when somebody cuts across you trying to go round the roundabout in the outside lane?

If the alternative is be involved in an accident then why wouldn't you? Stop or continue round, it's a roundabout they do that.