Atheist Godfather For Baptismal Ceremony

Sleeper12

Stanford wrote:

The statement "There is some voodoo rubbish with lighting of candles" is offensive to the people involved

As is calling the Catholic Church a cult. You haven't pulled up the op??

I never said that I was compassionate towards a church that to this day protects child abusers.

splinter65

tylercheribini wrote: »

Yes she is very much aware of my strong beliefs but I dont think she was aware of oath swearing etc. If all that mattered was attending I would be fine with it.

She had to go to baptism preparation meetings so she must’ve decided that the rules didn’t apply to her family at all.
I don’t know why your family are feeling the need to go to a religious ceremony when you could have had a baby naming ceremony in the garden with a BBQ.
Is it because she’d have to pay a celebrant for the baby naming ?
She hasn’t even got the excuse of needing to do it to get into a school anymore. It’s ludicrous.

splinter65

tylercheribini wrote: »

Thanks everyone, she wasnt aware the role of being Godfather was Christian ritual so probably wouldn't have asked me in the first place.

She’s presenting her child for a catholic sacrament but she didn’t think it would be Christian....

nikkibikki

splinter65 wrote:

She had to go to baptism preparation meetings so she must’ve decided that the rules didn’t apply to her family at all. I don’t know why your family are feeling the need to go to a religious ceremony when you could have had a baby naming ceremony in the garden with a BBQ. Is it because she’d have to pay a celebrant for the baby naming ? She hasn’t even got the excuse of needing to do it to get into a school anymore. It’s ludicrous.

Never had to go to baptism prep meetings for my 10yr old or 5yr olds.

Regards paying a celebrant, the priest would be getting paid too? Do you need a special, qualified celebrant for a naming ceremony? You could just have the BBQ?

And multi or non denominational schools aren't plentiful all over the country.

Stanford

When did this become about the motives of the newborn's mother?

Sleeper12

splinter65 wrote:

She had to go to baptism preparation meetings so she must’ve decided that the rules didn’t apply to her family at all. I don’t know why your family are feeling the need to go to a religious ceremony when you could have had a baby naming ceremony in the garden with a BBQ. Is it because she’d have to pay a celebrant for the baby naming ? She hasn’t even got the excuse of needing to do it to get into a school anymore. It’s ludicrous.

You still need to be christened to get into most schools in Ireland.

shamrock55

For God's sake just play along with it,I'm godfather to 4 kids and don't give a rats about religion and the kids parents knew that

Stanford

Sleeper12 wrote: »

As is calling the Catholic Church a cult. You haven't pulled up the op??

I never said that I was compassionate towards a church that to this day protects child abusers.

As an atheist myself I do believe the Catholic Church is a cult and I am disgusted by its role in child abuse. However I don't mind what sacrament rituals Catholics engage in provided they don't try to involve me, I also have a problem with what is going on in this Thread which smells of good old Irish l la carte Catholicism

splinter65

nikkibikki wrote: »

Never had to go to baptism prep meetings for my 10yr old or 5yr olds.

Regards paying a celebrant, the priest would be getting paid too? Do you need a special, qualified celebrant for a naming ceremony? You could just have the BBQ?

And multi or non denominational schools aren't plentiful all over the country.

But you don’t need a baptism cert to get into any school anymore
https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/education/school-baptism-barrier-gone-for-2019-entry-36967356.html
So that old chestnut of an excuse is gone.
The priest gets a €20 donation. A celebrant will need €300+ like any other professional to come to your family social occasion and act as an MC.
In our parish parents/guardians attend baptism prep over 4 weeks.

splinter65

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You still need to be christened to get into most schools in Ireland.

No you don’t.
https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/education/school-baptism-barrier-gone-for-2019-entry-36967356.html

Sleeper12

Stanford wrote:

As an atheist myself I do believe the Catholic Church is a cult and I am disgusted by its role in child abuse. However I don't mind what sacrament rituals Catholics engage in provided they don't try to involve me, I also have a problem with what is going on in this Thread which smells of good old Irish l la carte Catholicism

The whole thread is about Al la cart Catholicism. Ops sister doesn't know what is involved in being a godfather? Had no idea that it's a religious role? In fact one of the most important roles in the church.

I'm not putting her down in any way but it is Al la cart at its finest. Not saying its a bad thing but it is what it is

Stanford

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The whole thread is about Al la cart Catholicism. Ops sister doesn't know what is involved in being a godfather? Had no idea that it's a religious role? In fact one of the most important roles in the church.

I'm not putting her down in any way but it is Al la cart at its finest. Not saying its a bad thing but it is what it is

Agreed and we will see it at its best as the al la carte brigade flock to see Francis at the weekend while being shocked in private sipping on their Chardonnay

Sleeper12

splinter65 wrote:

No you don’t.

Ah go away with yourself. A Catholic school board is going to bend the rules regardless of any law. It might be workable if maybe 25 percent of the school board had to be non Catholic. Otherwise I don't believe that they will be honest. Not for a second

Sleeper12

Stanford wrote:

Agreed and we will see it at its best as the al la carte brigade flock to see Francis at the weekend while being shocked in private sipping on their Chardonnay

Plenty of protesters this time I'd imagine

wexie

So from the sound of it basically the sister is asking OP :

I really appreciate the bond we have and I think you're a great person. I would really like it if you had a special bond with my child and (god forbid (hurhur:pac:)) should anything happen to me I think you're the kind of person I trust to raise my child in a way I agree in and have faith (:p) in.....

(considering we all seem to agree OP's sister is an alacarte one that's what I would assume she's really asking?)

Which OP doesn't want to do because he would have to say a few words which according to his own beliefs mean absolutely nothing to him....

Have I got all of this right so far?

Then my considered advice would be to just get over it (in a nice way like, not trying to be a dick but really that is (I think) what your sister is asking)

Stanford

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Ah go away with yourself. A Catholic school board is going to bend the rules regardless of any law. It might be workable if maybe 25 percent of the school board had to be non Catholic. Otherwise I don't believe that they will be honest. Not for a second

Certainly not especially when the Daddies queue around the back with the brown envelopes

tylercheribini

wexie wrote: »

Which OP doesn't want to do because he would have to say a few words which according to his own beliefs mean absolutely nothing to him....

Have I got all of this right so far?

Au contraire, as an atheist swearing an oath to any God means absolutely alot to me. I wouldn't expect a Catholic or any other faithful to renounce their beliefs for me.

wexie

tylercheribini wrote: »

Au contraire, as an atheist swearing an oath to any God means absolutely alot to me. I wouldn't expect a Catholic or any other faithful to renounce their beliefs for me.

Well I guess if it means more to you than the position you'd take in the child's life (cause let's face it this is NOT about any kind of faith) then you're probably not the right person for the job anyways.

Least not in my opinion.

It's literally just....words....Nobody is asking you to renounce any 'beliefs' or to admit you believe in god, it's just a little ceremony that can mean what you want it to mean.

Johnnyhpipe

TheShow wrote: »

The question is, what’s more important to you. Making a few empty promises in front of the padre, or potentially upsetting your sister?

Is your sister deeply religious and does she expect you to teach the child about Christianity? I suspect not if she knows you are a “proud atheist”.
Treat the church thing as a token event and just be good guidance for your “godchild”. It’s nice that your sister thinks enough of you to ask you to do this for her and her child.

/thread

Stanford

wexie wrote: »

Well I guess if it means more to you than the position you'd take in the child's life (cause let's face it this is NOT about any kind of faith) then you're probably not the right person for the job anyways.

Least not in my opinion.

It's literally just....words....Nobody is asking you to renounce any 'beliefs' or to admit you believe in god, it's just a little ceremony that can mean what you want it to mean.

So untrue, Baptism is a major event in Catholicism and the OP can't re-invent its meaning, he is merely respecting that meaning and trying to not belittle it by taking part in something that he does not share a belief in

TomOnBoard

salmocab wrote: »

Your expected to stand and say some oath or other, a promise to see that they are raised in the tradition. If your not comfortable with it just explain it to your sister. It shouldn’t be a big deal to anyone at this stage.

Just a few words like:
V. Do you reject Satan?
R. I do.
V. And all his works?
R. I do.
V. And all his empty promises?
R. I do.
V. Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth?
R. I do.
V. Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?
R. I do.
V. Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?
R. I do.
V. God, the all-powerful Father of our Lord Jesus Christ has given us a new birth by water and the Holy Spirit, and forgiven all our sins. May he also keep us faithful to our Lord Jesus Christ for ever and ever.
R. Amen.
(This is a family service that is directed by one of the parents. The family members renew their baptismal vows and sprinkle themselves with the Easter water,)

wexie

Stanford wrote: »

So untrue, Baptism is a major event in Catholicism and the OP can't re-invent its meaning, he is merely respecting that meaning and trying to not belittle it by taking part in something that he does not share a belief in

Perhaps, for actually practicing Catholics and we seem to have established that's not really what we're dealing with here.

If it was that important to the sister (who is well aware the OP isn't a practicing catholic) then she probably wouldn't have asked.

Hence I'm quite comfortable in assuming that to the sister too this is just a ceremony.

Sleeper12

wexie wrote:

Then my considered advice would be to just get over it (in a nice way like, not trying to be a dick but really that is (I think) what your sister is asking)

I agree.

I have little time for religion yet I celebrate Christmas /yule time. Christmas is much more than a Christian holiday. With or without religion its great to see family and friends. I don't let religion get in the way of my Christmas.

I am a godfather to four myself ranging in ages from 12 to 29 and I've had no role in their religious education nor would I be expected to even if they became orphans. I think your sister wants you to play a special role in the child's life and I don't mean in a religious way. I see it as an honour to be asked.

Maybe it's time to have a non religious ceremony where "godparents" for want of a name, agree to guide the child in life but not in a religious way. So many Christian traditions & holidays (Christmas being one) have been stollen from pagans. I don't see anything wrong with claiming these back without the religious element.

Stanford

wexie wrote: »

Perhaps, for actually practicing Catholics and we seem to have established that's not really what we're dealing with here.

If it was that important to the sister (who is well aware the OP isn't a practicing catholic) then she probably wouldn't have asked.

Hence I'm quite comfortable in assuming that to the sister too this is just a ceremony.

I agree that the sister is going through the motions for whatever reason but that doesn't mean OP should also oblige

tylercheribini

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Just a few words like:
V. Do you reject Satan?
R. I do.
V. And all his works?
R. I do.
V. And all his empty promises?
R. I do.
V. Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth?
R. I do.
V. Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?
R. I do.
V. Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?
R. I do.
V. God, the all-powerful Father of our Lord Jesus Christ has given us a new birth by water and the Holy Spirit, and forgiven all our sins. May he also keep us faithful to our Lord Jesus Christ for ever and ever.
R. Amen.
(This is a family service that is directed by one of the parents. The family members renew their baptismal vows and sprinkle themselves with the Easter water,)

Cheers, yeah thats a no for four of those and the other three i dont need to proclaim to a man of the cloth,thanks to everyone for their contributions.

wexie

Stanford wrote: »

I agree that the sister is going through the motions for whatever reason but that doesn't mean OP should also oblige

Perhaps not, my stance would be though that it's not about my beliefs but about what that child means to me and what I'd like to mean to it and what (practically) the role of godfather will mean in that child's life.

If that means I've to sit through a ceremony I'm a little uncomfortable with well then so be it.

denismc

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Ah go away with yourself. A Catholic school board is going to bend the rules regardless of any law. It might be workable if maybe 25 percent of the school board had to be non Catholic. Otherwise I don't believe that they will be honest. Not for a second

So you are saying the school board is going break the the law?

byhookorbycrook

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Ah go away with yourself. A Catholic school board is going to bend the rules regardless of any law. It might be workable if maybe 25 percent of the school board had to be non Catholic. Otherwise I don't believe that they will be honest. Not for a second

Sorry, but that's BS. No school of any ethos can "bend the rules." Enrollment policy is a matter of public record and if the school doesn't stick to it to the letter of the law, they can and will be challenged , through a Section 29 appeal.



Most Catholic schools have children of all faith and none.The baptism issue occurred in a few oversubscribed schools in Dublin. The issue there was lack of school places.

Stanford

Where it suits them...............YES

Sleeper12

denismc wrote:

So you are saying the school board is going break the the law?

That's exactly what I'm saying. If you have a 100 percent Catholic board I don't expect them to be honest.

The only way to ensure honesty is to make the process totally transparent but children & parents are entitled to their privacy.

Perhaps making it illegal to have any questions or boxes to tic about religion might help but I still wouldn't trust a totally Catholic board. If 20 percent of the population is non religious then 20 percent of the school board should be non religious. This should be set out in law imo