Atheist Godfather For Baptismal Ceremony

byhookorbycrook

Sleeper12 wrote: »

That's exactly what I'm saying. If you have a 100 percent Catholic board I don't expect them to be honest.

The only way to ensure honesty is to make the process totally transparent but children & parents are entitled to their privacy.

Perhaps making it illegal to have any questions or boxes to tic about religion might help but I still wouldn't trust a totally Catholic board. If 20 percent of the population is non religious then 20 percent of the school board should be non religious. This should be set out in law imo

Bullsh*t. The process IS transparent. You really don't know what you are talking about. Do you even know how BOMs are chosen?You are stating your theories as if they have a factual basis, they don't.

Stanford

How are BOMs chosen then?

denismc

Sleeper12 wrote: »

That's exactly what I'm saying. If you have a 100 percent Catholic board I don't expect them to be honest.

The only way to ensure honesty is to make the process totally transparent but children & parents are entitled to their privacy.

Perhaps making it illegal to have any questions or boxes to tic about religion might help but I still wouldn't trust a totally Catholic board. If 20 percent of the population is non religious then 20 percent of the school board should be non religious. This should be set out in law imo

First of all I doubt very few school boards are 100% catholic , nominally maybe.
What person in their right mind would risk breaking the law or a lawsuit because of a childs religious beliefs?

Sleeper12

byhookorbycrook wrote:

Bullsh*t. The process IS transparent. You really don't know what you are talking about. Do you even know how BOMs are chosen?You are stating your theories as if they have a factual basis, they don't.

I'm just stating that the board should reflect the population. If 20 percent are non religious then 20 percent of the board should be non religious.

The board should not know what religion if any an applicant is. It should not be on any application form. Questions about religion should be banned from the application form as "it will have no bearing on the decision".

Bubbaclaus

I'm an atheist godfather to a child that is now 5 years old. Baptism was fine - just muttering a few yes responses to something the priest was saying.

First communion will be an interesting one. From memory of my own, the godparents go up to have communion with the godchild. Can treat the bread as a starter for the post ceremony meal I suppose.

TomOnBoard

tylercheribini wrote: »

Cheers, yeah thats a no for four of those and the other three i dont need to proclaim to a man of the cloth,thanks to everyone for their contributions.

Wonder what would happen if you were to respond honestly to the questions? Like:

V. Do you reject Satan?
R. Nope, coz s/he doesnt exist.
V. And all his works?
R. Asked and answered- see above.
V. And all his empty promises?
R. For the second time, this has already been asked and answered- see above.
V. Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth?
R. Nope.
V. Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?
R. Nope.
V. Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?
R. I dont even understand the words, let alone believe them.
V. God, the all-powerful Father of our Lord Jesus Christ has given us a new birth by water and the Holy Spirit, and forgiven all our sins. May he also keep us faithful to our Lord Jesus Christ for ever and ever.
R. WTF? Who's yer man in the white dress talking to? Better get that kid outta here before he's drowned in that bath.....

Ok lads.. Lets go! Its time tor pints and cake and loads of money for the babby who cant even count it up yet...

byhookorbycrook

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/lack-of-school-places-the-problem-not-baptism-barrier-1.3493705

byhookorbycrook

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm just stating that the board should reflect the population. If 20 percent are non religious then 20 percent of the board should be non religious.

The board should not know what religion if any an applicant is. It should not be on any application form. Questions about religion should be banned from the application form as "it will have no bearing on the decision".

https://www.education.ie/en/Schools-Colleges/Information/Boards-of-Management/Governance-Manual-for-Primary-Schools-2015-2019.pdf


Under new rules, Catholic schools cannot prioritise by religion,minority religions still can, so your "banned from the application form is already in effect.Many, many schools were not asking about religion to date anyhow.

tylercheribini

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Wonder what would happen if you were to respond honestly to the questions? Like:

V. Do you reject Satan?
R. Nope, coz s/he doesnt exist.
V. And all his works?
R. Asked and answered- see above.
V. And all his empty promises?
R. For the second time, this has already been asked and answered- see above.
V. Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth?
R. Nope.
V. Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?
R. Nope.
V. Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?
R. I dont even understand the words, let alone believe them.
V. God, the all-powerful Father of our Lord Jesus Christ has given us a new birth by water and the Holy Spirit, and forgiven all our sins. May he also keep us faithful to our Lord Jesus Christ for ever and ever.
R. WTF? Who's yer man in the white dress talking to? Better get that kid outta here before he's drowned in that bath.....

Ok lads.. Lets go! Its time tor pints and cake and loads of money for the babby who cant even count it up yet...

Haha brilliant, first rounds on me Padre.

Sleeper12

denismc wrote:

First of all I doubt very few school boards are 100% catholic , nominally maybe. What person in their right mind would risk breaking the law or a lawsuit because of a childs religious beliefs?

I'd venture to say outside of Dublin 99 percent of school boards are totally Catholic.

The church has left Catholic children starve rather than send them to the UK for a better life. People are capable of doing the most stupid things in the name of religion. I don't want to totally bring the thread off topic so I'll just hint at it, we still have people covering things up because they want to protect the church. These people are risking jail by covering up things. I 100 percent believe that people are capable of doing anything good or bad for their religion.

I just think that it would be fair to ban any hint of religion in the application process and the board should be representative of the whole population and this should include making certain that a percentage of the board are non religious

Stanford

That won't sit well with the Patron, usually the local Bishop

Sleeper12

byhookorbycrook wrote:

Under new rules, Catholic schools cannot prioritise by religion,minority religions still can, so your "banned from the application form is already in effect.Many, many schools were not asking about religion to date anyhow.

They are totally different things. If they can not prioritise by religion then any mention of religion should be removed from the application form. The board should not have a way of knowing who is Catholic and who isn't.

Many schools not asking is not good enough. No school board should know who is Catholic and who isn't

Stanford

Here is the current application form for a local secondary school, what is the purpose of asking the Applicant's Religion?

Sleeper12

Stanford wrote:

That won't sit well with the Patron, usually the local Bishop

The sooner we remove religion from school the better. School should be fact based. Religious education should be carried out by the church in Sunday school and at home.

Stanford

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The sooner we remove religion from school the better. School should be fact based. Religious education should be carried out by the church in Sunday school and at home.

And be a non-credit bearing optional subject

splinter65

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Ah go away with yourself. A Catholic school board is going to bend the rules regardless of any law. It might be workable if maybe 25 percent of the school board had to be non Catholic. Otherwise I don't believe that they will be honest. Not for a second

So your going to continue to insist that if I show up to enroll my child in Scoil Naomh Peadar next May for Sept 2019 that im going to be asked for a baptismal cert? And I’m not going to complain to the Dept of Education if I am asked because......?

Sleeper12

Stanford wrote:

Here is the current application form for a local secondary school, what is the purpose of asking the Applicant's Religion?

This is my point. Why is that question there if it makes no difference to the application itself?

It screams out to me that it might make a difference somehow

Stanford

Room for another field in the school's confidential database...

Those asked to produce a baptismal cert and did so

Those asked to produce a baptismal cert and refused

Those asked to produce a baptismal cert and couldn't


How will that fare out I wonder?

Glass fused light

tylercheribini wrote: »

Hi

My sister recently asked me to be godfather to her newborn but as a proud atheist is there any point of me doing this? At the ceremony itself will I be expected to do/say anything? Thanks

Its simple you will be asked to promise to ensure that you support the development of the child's Christian faith.
If you believe that a persons word should means something you will not stand in front of your family and community and make promises and a commitment you have no intention of trying to keep.

Bits_n_Bobs

Glass fused light wrote: »

Its simple you will be asked to promise to ensure that you support the development of the child's Christian faith.
If you believe that a persons word should means something you will not stand in front of your family and community and make promises and a commitment you have no intention of trying to keep.

I was asked to be an (anti) God father so the parent could rest assured that I wouod never follow through on my promise to some sky God and that her child would get past the bigoted entrance requirements of her local school.

Sleeper12

splinter65 wrote:

So your going to continue to insist that if I show up to enroll my child in Scoil Naomh Peadar next May for Sept 2019 that im going to be asked for a baptismal cert? And I’m not going to complain to the Dept of Education if I am asked because......?

It should be illegal for the question about religion to be on the application form.

Even if you say that you are Catholic but don't supply baptism cert do you not think that the priest can check church records?

The question should not be on the form. It has no relevance.

I don't trust the church. I have heard of people wanting to become non Catholic /Christian. Wanting every trace of their baptism wiped from the face of the earth. Many couldn't wait for the GDPR legislation to come in a few months ago as you can insist all of your data be deleted. I have read of many getting replies from the church stating that they have no data belonging to them. I have not found a single success story yet.

BuboBubo

wexie wrote: »

Well I guess if it means more to you than the position you'd take in the child's life (cause let's face it this is NOT about any kind of faith) then you're probably not the right person for the job anyways.

Least not in my opinion.

It's literally just....words....Nobody is asking you to renounce any 'beliefs' or to admit you believe in god, it's just a little ceremony that can mean what you want it to mean.

That attitude is prevalent amongst 'the bouncy castle Catholics' in this country. Just say no. You either believe or don't believe - why confuse things.

The kid might grow up to be athiest just like you, then you'll have explain not only why you're godfather - but also why you played a role in their communion, and particularly their confirmation, all part of the job as a godparent.

If more people could be brave, put their foot down and say 'no' it would make a world of difference for future generations.

splinter65

Stanford wrote: »

Room for another field in the school's confidential database...

Those asked to produce a baptismal cert and did so

Those asked to produce a baptismal cert and refused

Those asked to produce a baptismal cert and couldn't


How will that fare out I wonder?

But you can’t explain at all what’s going to happen when I make a complaint about being asked at all for a baptismal cert. Because I am going to complain.

splinter65

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It should be illegal for the question about religion to be on the application form.

Even if you say that you are Catholic but don't supply baptism cert do you not think that the priest can check church records?

The question should not be on the form. It has no relevance.

I don't trust the church. I have heard of people wanting to become non Catholic /Christian. Wanting every trace of their baptism wiped from the face of the earth. Many couldn't wait for the GDPR legislation to come in a few months ago as you can insist all of your data be deleted. I have read of many getting replies from the church stating that they have no data belonging to them. I have not found a single success story yet.

Have you got a link to the school enrollment form for 2019/2020?
You have been beating the drum about baptism and school enrollment for so long that you simply cannot bear that you won’t be beating that drum any longer. It’s as if the drum beating was the important thing, not actually achieving the objective.
If your parents brought you to the church and had you baptized and the church made a record of that in a ledger, then the church simply cannot now pretend that you were NOT baptized.
It is a fact that you were baptized and facts simply can’t be changed.
GDPR can’t change facts.
I was married in September 1996. I cannot demand that my entry in the marriage register be deleted. Why on earth do you think that would be possible?

splinter65

Stanford wrote: »

Here is the current application form for a local secondary school, what is the purpose of asking the Applicant's Religion?

How do you know that there won’t be a new application form for 2019/2020 with no religion on it?
Don’t you think it’s time that you accept that you won’t require a baptismal cert for enrollment from next September?

wexie

BuboBubo wrote: »

The kid might grow up to be athiest just like you, then you'll have explain not only why you're godfather - but also why you played a role in their communion, and particularly their confirmation, all part of the job as a godparent.

Because it is/was important to your parents and they are/were an important part of my life and so are you. So even though I don't really believe I felt it was important for me to be there for you.

And depending on the age they ask these questions quite likely followed up with

And if you ever have any questions about faith or religion I'll always be here for you to tell you (in an open and non-biased way) about my personal beliefs and ideas, however, it's important you make up your own mind about these things.

BuboBubo wrote: »

If more people could be brave, put their foot down and say 'no' it would make a world of difference for future generations.

I'm quite happy being an atheist but respecting other's rights to have a faith. Not for me to want to stomp it out in any way.

byhookorbycrook

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It should be illegal for the question about religion to be on the application form.

Even if you say that you are Catholic but don't supply baptism cert do you not think that the priest can check church records?

The question should not be on the form. It has no relevance.

It is now illegal to discriminate against non-Catholics attending a Catholic school.

splinter65

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

It is now illegal to discriminate against non-Catholics attending a Catholic school.

This seems to be causing more angst amongst the secular folk then having to produce a baptismal cert ever did.

Sleeper12

splinter65 wrote:

Have you got a link to the school enrollment form for 2019/2020? You have been beating the drum about baptism and school enrollment for so long that you simply cannot bear that you won’t be beating that drum any longer. It’s as if the drum beating was the important thing, not actually achieving the objective. If your parents brought you to the church and had you baptized and the church made a record of that in a ledger, then the church simply cannot now pretend that you were NOT baptized. It is a fact that you were baptized and facts simply can’t be changed. GDPR can’t change facts. I was married in September 1996. I cannot demand that my entry in the marriage register be deleted. Why on earth do you think that would be possible?

Marriage is a legal & religious ceremony. Under GDPR you can not request that your legal marriage data be deleted but you definitely can get your religious marriage data deleted as it has no legal standing. Same goes with baptism, communion & conformation. Any personal data that the church holds on you, you have a legal right to have it totally deleted and all copies deleted. Baptism, communion and conformation have no legal standing. Marriage and death have legal standing. The Church are breaking the law by not complying with gdpr legislation. Give it a year or so and they will have paid out so much in fines for gdpr breach that they will comply.

Their stance on it is absolutely nuts. Baptism, communion and conformation are carried out on an infant, 7 year old and 11 year old. You can't enter into a legal contract until you are 18. Baptised as an infant. You have no input into it so it's not like you changed your mind. It was never your decision in the first place and the church says that you can't get unbaptised? Can't delete any evidence of the baptism? It's nuts

GDPR will sort out this nonsense once & for all

mickoneill31

tylercheribini wrote: »

Hi

My sister recently asked me to be godfather to her newborn but as a proud atheist is there any point of me doing this? At the ceremony itself will I be expected to do/say anything? Thanks

If your sister wants her kid to be a Catholic then there's no point in you doing it.
If she's just doing it for tradition or worried about school places then it's up to you. Another role of the godparent is to be there if the parents die. I know that's not always the case but that was why I did it. I know the wills that we've done have more weight though.

I'm (atheist) a godfather and my wife (Buddhist) is a godmother. In both cases we didn't hide this from the priest and didn't take any vows for each baptism. I've no problem taking part in a ceremony for a god I don't believe in. When I went to my wifes hometown I took part in her ceremonies.