Border Poll discussion

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ok, I know a bit about this area.

What kind of farmer are you? Describe farm, employees, stock, etc.

That’s a very aggressive response francie. A policeman wouldn’t ask you that. Tell me why you ask the question first? It’s a strange question.

downcow

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Really, did you not read the paper that carried the recent poll that showed that the vast majority have a problem with it?

No

Imreoir2

downcow wrote: »

No

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/0307/1035019-poll-northern-ireland/

And 67% of those questioned expressed dissatisfaction with the way in which the DUP was representing Northern Ireland at Westminster

67% is also known as the vast majority. So the vast majority of people in NI are not at all happy with what the DUP are up to.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

That’s a very aggressive response francie. A policeman wouldn’t ask you that. Tell me why you ask the question first? It’s a strange question.

You are a farmer, you talk to farmer of the same opinion.

What kind of farmer are you. Nothing aggressive about that, unless you are on the defensive.

Junkyard Tom

jm08 wrote: »

These people will do or say anything to further their sectarian agenda.

Brexit is an opportunity divide nationalist communities who live along the former border and reverse the integration of Ireland economically and socially.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are a farmer, you talk to farmer of the same opinion.

What kind of farmer are you. Nothing aggressive about that, unless you are on the defensive.

That’s a different question. Your last question was for me to describe my employees my animals and my farm. You still haven’t told me why it is relevant. Could it be that you don’t believe me 😮. ?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

That’s a different question. Your last question was for me to describe my employees my animals and my farm. You still haven’t told me why it is relevant. Could it be that you don’t believe me ��. ?

Before I comment on your situation, I need to know your situation.

You are a farmer facing Brexit, let's have a debate about what faces a northern Ireland farmer if the UK crashes out.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

That’s a different question. Your last question was for me to describe my employees my animals and my farm. You still haven’t told me why it is relevant. Could it be that you don’t believe me ��. ?

Very little BIG farming in NI. The vast majority farms are under 50 acres. The milk processors tend to have grown out of co-operative societies and though now huge business, their shares are generally owned by farmers and approx. 80% of NI's farmers income comes from CAP. Future does not look great outside the EU for NI farmers.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It wouldn't be a subvention to 'northern Ireland' it would be an investment in the whole island of Ireland.

Can you answer the question I asked now? If you can't, fair enough.

You asked me to defend a DUP position which I think is nuts. Why would I do that?

I think that the DUP policy on Brexit is mad or nuts. I also think that the SF opportunism on the unity question is short-sighted and doesn't help the North. That combination of opinions seems to put me in line with sensible opinion in the North, hence the low ratings for the two leaders.

You need to remember that just because I disagree with Sinn Fein doesn't mean I agree with the DUP. The inability to see Northern Ireland issues as anything other than binary is something that unites the supporters of both sectarian parties.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

You asked me to defend a DUP position which I think is nuts. Why would I do that?

I think that the DUP policy on Brexit is mad or nuts. I also think that the SF opportunism on the unity question is short-sighted and doesn't help the North. That combination of opinions seems to put me in line with sensible opinion in the North, hence the low ratings for the two leaders.

You need to remember that just because I disagree with Sinn Fein doesn't mean I agree with the DUP. The inability to see Northern Ireland issues as anything other than binary is something that unites the supporters of both sectarian parties.

You need to understand that you aren't a first time poster on boards.ie.

You routinely take the unionist position while pretending to be a United Islander if it suits you.

Your goal is to get Gerry or Sf or some other witch hunt. Who really cares blanch.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ok, I know a bit about this area.

What kind of farmer are you? Describe farm, employees, stock, etc.

Francie do you want to tell me a bit about yourself first ie where you from? What you work at? How many employees? What you had this morning for breakfast? Etc

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie do you want to tell me a bit about yourself first ie where you from? What you work at? How many employees? What you had this morning for breakfast? Etc

You said this:

I don’t know a single farmer, myself included, who really knows whether brexit is good or bad financially.

I think you either move in very limited circles or you are a very very specialised type of farmer.

I would like to know what type of farmer you are. You can do this generally.

My point is that whatever kind of farmer you are that there are very strident voices against Brexit. So strident in fact, that their Unions and representative organisations have taken the same position.
That is what happens in 'representative' organisations, usually.

endainoz

Speaking as a farmer from the republic, its very worrying times for the beef sector. The prime time report from Thursday night was some depressing viewing.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

My point is that whatever kind of farmer you are that there are very strident voices against Brexit. So strident in fact, that their Unions and representative organisations have taken the same position.
That is what happens in 'representative' organisations, usually.

I think the problem is there has been so much scaremongering and lies that nobody knows what to believe and what is just more scaremongering

downcow

endainoz wrote: »

Speaking as a farmer from the republic, its very worrying times for the beef sector. The prime time report from Thursday night was some depressing viewing.

My haunch is it is going to be more difficult for farmers in the south if Ireland keeps taking us down the route of a no-deal by insisting UK is tied into Backstop for ever.
In NI we will still have our main market open to us ie gb

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I think the problem is there has been so much scaremongering and lies that nobody knows what to believe and what is just more scaremongering

So what do you and your farmer mates think is going to happen to northern Irish farming?

Avatar MIA

downcow wrote: »

My haunch is it is going to be more difficult for farmers in the south if Ireland keeps taking us down the route of a no-deal by insisting UK is tied into Backstop for ever.
In NI we will still have our main market open to us ie gb

Unless the good folk of GB are going to starve it will remain open to Ireland and the EU. They'll just have to pay more for their groceries.

NI may lose its Irish market though. And ye better hope similar subsidies will come from Westminster as currently being received.

FrancieBrady

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Unless the good folk of GB are going to starve it will remain open to Ireland and the EU. They'll just have to pay more for their groceries.

NI may lose its Irish market though. And ye better hope similar subsidies will come from Westminster as currently being received.

One of the biggest dairies on the island has spelled out in clear language what happens in the different scenario's coming, the farming organisations in NI, do the same, yet a NI farmer tells us it is all scaremongering and then proceeds to tell us that the south's farmers will be in difficulties if they don't tow the UK line. :rolleyes:

endainoz

FrancieBrady wrote:

One of the biggest dairies on the island has spelled out in clear language what happens in the different scenario's coming, the farming organisations in NI, do the same, yet a NI farmer tells us it is all scaremongering and then proceeds to tell us that the south's farmers will be in difficulties if they don't tow the UK line.

Arrogance personified right there. Somehow this mess is our fault because us silly paddies won't do what were told.

downcow

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Unless the good folk of GB are going to starve it will remain open to Ireland and the EU. They'll just have to pay more for their groceries.

NI may lose its Irish market though. And ye better hope similar subsidies will come from Westminster as currently being received.

This is what i mean about it is hard to separate fact from fiction. Whay would GB be open to ire and eu yet ire and eu not be open to NI. Whats your basis for such a suggestion?

Avatar MIA

downcow wrote: »

This is what i mean about it is hard to separate fact from fiction. Whay would GB be open to ire and eu yet ire and eu not be open to NI. Whats your basis for such a suggestion?

You do realise GB is a significant food importer? Try using financial services as a trade off for food in trade negotiations and see how that goes for you.

And assuming everything goes well with your great pals, the Argies *gotcha!* and ye import beef and the like... Good luck with the standards!

downcow

Avatar MIA wrote: »

You do realise GB is a significant food importer? Try using financial services as a trade off for food in trade negotiations and see how that goes for you.

And assuming everything goes well with your great pals, the Argies *gotcha!* and ye import beef and the like... Good luck with the standards!

Here we go again - You are going to keep importing to the UK and have no problem competing with the Aggies prices but NI can't - explain that one?

downcow

endainoz wrote: »

Arrogance personified right there. Somehow this mess is our fault because us silly paddies won't do what were told.

Your getting this the wrong way around. It is not that you wont do what you are told, rather it is that you think you have the right to decide what NI do.
The arrogance of the statement yesterday from Barnier - 'GB can leave the CU unilaterally but we(EU) don't allow NI to leave with you (UK). You couldn't make it up. When i heard that last night i now hope we go out no deal - Who would want to be part of such a shower

Avatar MIA

downcow wrote: »

Here we go again - You are going to keep importing to the UK and have no problem competing with the Aggies prices but NI can't - explain that one?

Exporting?

Er, I was including NI within the UK. It might not be for much longer, but as it stands it remains.

For clarity, I don't envisage the ROI having a political competitive advantage when it comes to exporting to GB compared to NI.

Avatar MIA

downcow wrote: »

Your getting this the wrong way around. It is not that you wont do what you are told, rather it is that you think you have the right to decide what NI do.
The arrogance of the statement yesterday from Barnier - 'GB can leave the CU unilaterally but we(EU) don't allow NI to leave with you (UK). You couldn't make it up. When i heard that last night i now hope we go out no deal - Who would want to be part of such a shower

Barnier knows the HoC arithmetic has changed. The DUP no longer have the veto they had only weeks ago. The breakaway Labour MPs (plus others) could vote for the withdrawal agreement or the version where NI is treated differently. Do you think Mogg gives a fig about NI?

upupup

downcow wrote: »

Your getting this the wrong way around. It is not that you wont do what you are told, rather it is that you think you have the right to decide what NI do.
The arrogance of the statement yesterday from Barnier - 'GB can leave the CU unilaterally but we(EU) don't allow NI to leave with you (UK). You couldn't make it up. When i heard that last night i now hope we go out no deal - Who would want to be part of such a shower

The majority of the people of NI want to part of that shower.

downcow

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Barnier knows the HoC arithmetic has changed. The DUP no longer have the veto they had only weeks ago. The breakaway Labour MPs (plus others) could vote for the withdrawal agreement or the version where NI is treated differently. Do you think Mogg gives a fig about NI?

I was told many times on here how much Barnier loved and respected Ireland and would stand by it. Clearly that respect does not extend north of the border, if, as you suggest, he is simply being opportunist.
There is a simple solution that respects all.. Let GB have a unilateral exit but at the same time as this happens, allow the people of NI to decide on its future - You shouldn't have a problem with this because many here are quoting how the people of NI want the backstop and want to remain in CU, so this shouldn't threaten you, but cruscially it allows the people of NI to self determination on this issue which is what GFA promised.
Anyway I fear we are completely of topic and that this discussion should be on one of the Brexit threads. So i won't respond any further on this

FrancieBrady

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Barnier knows the HoC arithmetic has changed. The DUP no longer have the veto they had only weeks ago. The breakaway Labour MPs (plus others) could vote for the withdrawal agreement or the version where NI is treated differently. Do you think Mogg gives a fig about NI?

I agree here. Despite deluding themselves that they held the trump cards the DUP are in the process of getting thrown under the bus, as was always going to happen, one way or the other.

Avatar MIA

downcow wrote: »

I was told many times on here how much Barnier loved and respected Ireland and would stand by it. Clearly that respect does not extend north of the border, if, as you suggest, he is simply being opportunist.
There is a simple solution that respects all.. Let GB have a unilateral exit but at the same time as this happens, allow the people of NI to decide on its future - You shouldn't have a problem with this because many here are quoting how the people of NI want the backstop and want to remain in CU, so this shouldn't threaten you, but cruscially it allows the people of NI to self determination on this issue which is what GFA promised.
Anyway I fear we are completely of topic and that this discussion should be on one of the Brexit threads. So i won't respond any further on this

For what it's worth, and I know you've decided to uphold the integrity of the thread, but I think that'd be fair. Let the people of NI decide on what way they wish to be treated. It makes perfect sense.

And to bring back on topic, let them also have a say on an agreed New Ireland after a discussion of what that would be.

Re Barnier, he was always going to be on the side of loyalist Ireland (see what I did there !) that was remaining within the EU.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I was told many times on here how much Barnier loved and respected Ireland and would stand by it. Clearly that respect does not extend north of the border, if, as you suggest, he is simply being opportunist.
There is a simple solution that respects all.. Let GB have a unilateral exit but at the same time as this happens, allow the people of NI to decide on its future - You shouldn't have a problem with this because many here are quoting how the people of NI want the backstop and want to remain in CU, so this shouldn't threaten you, but cruscially it allows the people of NI to self determination on this issue which is what GFA promised.
Anyway I fear we are completely of topic and that this discussion should be on one of the Brexit threads. So i won't respond any further on this

I think a referendum in northern Ireland on the issue would be a great idea. However that is not in Barnier's gift, it is in the gift of Westminster.