Border Poll discussion

blanch152

Farawayhome wrote: »

I think some unionists have this paranoia about a United Ireland. Because they treated Nationalists so badly in their state, they think there'd be some form of revenge or repercussions. This is far from the truth and in fact, Unionists will be mollycoddled in a United Ireland. Ordinary Irish people, be they Nationalist, unionist, neither, whatever religion and so on have so much in common. It doesn't make sense to have two states on this one island. Yes there'd be a few issues to sort out but they are very minor when you think about it. Let's just get on with it.

Certainly, given some of the views expressed on this thread such as

- Ban their bonfires, but not ours
- Keep the flag at all costs
- Make their children learn Irish
- Stop their parades

etc.,

I would think that such fears are justified.

Those who want a united Ireland need to wake up and start considering the real compromises that are required. It will mean doing things that go against the grain for nationalists, like the opposite of the list I just made.

blanch152

seamus wrote: »

Seriously?

When's the last time you've heard of houses in Dublin having to be evacuated on Halloween night due to their proximity to fires?

How many bonfires in Dublin are forty feet high?

How many are draped in foreign flags and used as beacons for racism and sectarianism?

"Sure a few bonfires are lit in Dublin, what's the harm?"

It's pretty clear blanch that you know nothing of the nature of bonfire night up North but you're trying to play Devil's Advocate anyway.

Bonfires in Dublin were different a few years ago and were toned down. I am sure that the ones up north can be toned down too.

Farawayhome

blanch152 wrote: »

Certainly, given some of the views expressed on this thread such as

- Ban their bonfires, but not ours
- Keep the flag at all costs
- Make their children learn Irish
- Stop their parades

etc.,

I would think that such fears are justified.

Those who want a united Ireland need to wake up and start considering the real compromises that are required. It will mean doing things that go against the grain for nationalists, like the opposite of the list I just made.

Ban all bonfires - Drama sorted
Change the flag into one all are happy with - Drama sorted
Irish is not a Nationalist language, it's the language of this island which was and is learned by unionists also - Drama sorted
Parades be they unionist or nationalist should only go on streets where they are wanted - Drama sorted.

Welcome to a United Ireland.

blanch152

Farawayhome wrote: »

Ban all bonfires - Drama sorted
Change the flag into one all are happy with - Drama sorted
Irish is not a Nationalist language, it's the language of this island which was and is learned by unionists also - Drama sorted
Parades be they unionist or nationalist should only go on streets where they are wanted - Drama sorted.

Welcome to a United Ireland.

This post illustrates how little understanding there is between the two sides.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Eh, Halloween in Dublin?

We don't burn Union Jacks also they get put out by the fire brigade regular.

blanch152 wrote: »

If we have a united Ireland, it means nothing, it is only symbolic.

You'd be okay with the symbolic burning of Orange order or English paraphernalia on a bonfire as it would only be symbolic?

blanch152 wrote: »

Certainly, given some of the views expressed on this thread such as

- Ban their bonfires, but not ours
- Keep the flag at all costs
- Make their children learn Irish
- Stop their parades

etc.,

I would think that such fears are justified.

Those who want a united Ireland need to wake up and start considering the real compromises that are required. It will mean doing things that go against the grain for nationalists, like the opposite of the list I just made.

I've put your nonsense in bold. These are not clear cut absolutes as you well know. You seem to want it all one way despite feigning otherwise.
You never elaborated on how a United Ireland might celebrate British culture.

Frank Castle

blanch152 wrote: »

This post illustrates how little understanding there is between the two sides.

I disagree.

As a unionist myself I agree with that post.
Problem is too many people are vocal with their hate and don't represent the rest of us.

Bit like how brexiteers think they represent us even though the majority of the north voted to remain.

I would say the biggest problem is both sides refusing to communicate and automatically take a hostile position. Try taking the other side at face value for a change

James Brown

Frank Castle wrote: »

I disagree.

As a unionist myself I agree with that post.
Problem is too many people are vocal with their hate and don't represent the rest of us.

Bit like how brexiteers think they represent us even though the majority of the north voted to remain.

I would say the biggest problem is both sides refusing to communicate and automatically take a hostile position. Try taking the other side at face value for a change

There's no progress to be made in tit-for tat for the sake of it regarding 'respecting' any culture.
If Blanch wants all bonfires banned, (Halloween down south) because people don't like seeing their current national flag burned by some as a sign of hatred, sure, but I don't see the comparison personally.

ancapailldorcha

Non-Constructive posts and Image deleted.

Junkyard Tom

I don't think bonfires should be banned - it would just feed into the unionist siege mentality - bonfires are good craic anyway. Definitely the Parades Commission would have to go all Ireland to contain parading in the northeast with maybe a special exemption for a couple of parades elsewhere

Infini

blanch152 wrote: »

The removal of mandatory Irish in education is an obvious first step to take towards the British minority in a united Ireland.

I wouldn't be against it myself. Im not for removing it either but English is the first language of the country in practical terms not Irish as much as some might not like this. Actually bugs me sometimes to see a poster with Irish on top which FAR few people will read compared to the English part.

James Brown

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I don't think bonfires should be banned - it would just feed into the unionist siege mentality - bonfires are good craic anyway. Definitely the Parades Commission would have to go all Ireland to contain parading in the northeast with maybe a special exemption for a couple of parades elsewhere

I'm not a Catholic but I couldn't give tuppence ha' penny whether they do the stations of the cross or not. I don't see it as sticking it to anyone and I'd be happy with any parade/march by anyone in a similar celebrating their own thing way. Blocks traffic, that's it really.
It could be worked like any Italian, Chinese event, a celebration of that culture. We can celebrate something without crapping on something else in the process. The Legion of Mary don't burn the star of David

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

Are you not worried about how dangerous some of them are? The size and proximity to housing estates is dangerous. People having to be evacuated from their homes, houses having to be hosed down by the fire brigade to to stop them going up in smoke.

https://www.independent.ie/videos/irish-news/video-watch-moment-huge-bonfire-collapses-belfast-residents-living-in-fear-34851815.html

edit: Would you mind saying what ROI discriminations you were referring to earlier?

Thousands upon thousands of people take part in 11th night fires year after year. I can’t remember a single issue of anyone being injured. Remarkable it may be but it is also fact. So don’t do a Stephen Nolan and pretend you are worried about young prods or the environment. Neither stands up to examination

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Unionists should never be allowed to parade where they are not wanted and certainly not with bands or groups called 'Red Hand Defenders'.
That is wrong in the current state and would be wrong in any new state. It is one of the compromises Unionism will have to make as they are being forced to make it now.
The 'inalienable right to march where-ever they want' has been repudiated as the nonsense it always was by the Parades Commission and should stay that way.
Republicans/nationalists will also have to accept that they cannot triumphalise/goad or intimidate either.

That’s a little simplistic. That would mean gay pride parades would not have taken off in most Irish cities. You never know, if you tolerate some diversity in your midst you may actually get to appreciate it.
Tell me, is there other minority groups you would ban from parading where majorities didn’t tolerate them, or just prods?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Thousands upon thousands of people take part in 11th night fires year after year. I can’t remember a single issue of anyone being injured. Remarkable it may be but it is also fact. So don’t do a Stephen Nolan and pretend you are worried about young prods or the environment. Neither stands up to examination

'Thousands and thousands do it' therefore we don't have to examine it or modify it??

If the world worked that way, it would be quite a mess. Thousands would be out spreading hate across the world if that was the case.

'Bonfire night' needs severe modifying across the north if it is to be part of a normal society.

downcow

Frank Castle wrote: »

Care to elaborate? As I don't see what you are to lp)

Well my father lived in roi about 80 years ago and was forced against his will to learn Irish. Seems you think you can do that again in the 21st century

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

That’s a little simplistic. That would mean gay pride parades would not have taken off in most Irish cities. You never know, if you tolerate some diversity in your midst you may actually get to appreciate it.
Tell me, is there other minority groups you would ban from parading where majorities didn’t tolerate them, or just prods?

Gay pride marches are spreading hate and triumphalising? I don't think so.

Stop trying to change the narrative here: nobody is trying to stop peaceful, inoffensive marching. Whatever rocks your boat.

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

Good behaviour is a requirement for anyone who wants to parade. Are you suggesting that the OO should be given special permission to misbehave?



What ROI discrimination are you referring to?

English has equal standing with Irish - both are compulsory here.

Not at all. My point was that you said that if we behaved we could have our culture but that we must also take part in your culture.

...both ‘were’ compulsory. Not happening when you welcome a million brits who have no interest in Irish.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

Thousands upon thousands of people take part in 11th night fires year after year. I can’t remember a single issue of anyone being injured. Remarkable it may be but it is also fact.

Mostly because Catholics stayed out of the way.

downcow

Dytalus wrote: »

There is a mosque near my old college which Muslims are freely allowed worship in. There are no laws denying Spanish immigrants the right to speak their language. You can even study it for the leaving certificate if you want, though due to budget and time constraints not every school can offer it. Likewise with German, Arabic, French, Russian, Japanese and many others. All available to study and take examinations in at a student's request.
.

You really have pushed the boat out down south. You even let them worship and if your budget allows they might get doing exams in their first language.
Take a bow

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nobody has an issue with history and tradition. How many times does it need to be stated.

Having 'a right to march wherever you want' is not a tradition.
Bigotry, racism and intimidation around bonfire season is not based on any history a democrat would want to keep. That needs to be forgotten and put away.

Francie that is so 1998s

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So because Halloween in Dublin endangers people, so too should others be allowed to, so a few belligerent unionists, who are breaking quite a few laws/codes, won't be upset??

Francie your concern for us prods is admirable but if you want people to be safer join a road safety group. I can’t think of any ever indangered by a 11th bonfire. 100s every year are getting killed on the roads.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie that is so 1998s

Last year:

BluePlanet

My own take is that all bonfires should be treated equally and all banned, with equal vigor.

downcow

seamus wrote: »

Seriously?

When's the last time you've heard of houses in Dublin having to be evacuated on Halloween night due to their proximity to fires?

How many bonfires in Dublin are forty feet high?

How many are draped in foreign flags and used as beacons for racism and sectarianism?

"Sure a few bonfires are lit in Dublin, what's the harm?"

It's pretty clear blanch that you know nothing of the nature of bonfire night up North but you're trying to play Devil's Advocate anyway.

I wonder Seamus what’s your understanding of boney night up north. I think blanch seems to have a more realistic view of it than you.
Can I assure you even in this peacetime there is far far far more people having to leave their homes due to bomb scares than bonfires. So direct your energy to stopping republicans putting in bombscares

FrancieBrady

BluePlanet wrote: »

My own take is that all bonfires should be treated equally and all banned, with equal vigor.

Totally agree.

If there was to be a UI, a moratorium of 5 yrs of any public displays of flags, parades etc would be healthy.

Junkyard Tom

BluePlanet wrote: »

My own take is that all bonfires should be treated equally and all banned, with equal vigor.

It would be pretty mean-spirited especially to unionists. I mean, I'm not fond of the flag burning but I think the alternative is worse i.e. trying to prevent it.

downcow

Farawayhome wrote: »

I think some unionists have this paranoia about a United Ireland. Because they treated Nationalists so badly in their state, they think there'd be some form of revenge or repercussions. This is far from the truth and in fact, Unionists will be mollycoddled in a United Ireland.lt.

You could convince us if you would mollycoddle us few a few months up north

downcow

Farawayhome wrote: »

Ban all bonfires - Drama sorted
Change the flag into one all are happy with - Drama sorted
Irish is not a Nationalist language, it's the language of this island which was and is learned by unionists also - Drama sorted
Parades be they unionist or nationalist should only go on streets where they are wanted - Drama sorted.

Welcome to a United Ireland.

As long as we have this attitude there will never be a majority up north to vote for UI.
Thanks Farawayhome you’re doing us a big favour

FrancieBrady

The cost to the fire service not to mention the police, suggests it is a bigger problem than hoax bomb alerts.

downcow

Quote: downcow
Thousands upon thousands of people take part in 11th night fires year after year. I can’t remember a single issue of anyone being injured. Remarkable it may be but it is also fact.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Mostly because Catholics stayed out of the way.

Why, are they the dangerous ones?