Border Poll discussion

James Brown

Frank Castle wrote: »

Honestly it is hard for most to understand, because from a position of complete dominance, every concession feels like oppression.

The sad truth is must of us either don't understand that or refuse to acknowledge it. (and most of my people are poorly educated and lack the ability to assess themselves, let alone the other half) This drives sectarianism ever onward. Education is key to a better future imo, and it is severely lacking at home.

A good quote from Chris Rock, "When You're Accustomed To Privilege, Equality Feels Like Oppression". With the DUP making concessions is like taking a political black eye. Their base needs to be appeased at every hands turn, like most every party. I don't think the DUP would last long if they were to make too many concessions.

IMO, we've a situation were the institutions of state were wrong in many actions over many years. It's not easy for them to change their attitudes as it could easily lead to an admittance of state sanctioned wrong doing.

BonnieSituation

Well they're all big boys now so time to cop the hell on.

James Brown

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Well they're all big boys now so time to cop the hell on.

You would think over time they'd have the luxury of saying it's in he past. Fianna Fail do it every few years to great success.

RobMc59

Matt Barrett wrote: »

A good quote from Chris Rock, "When You're Accustomed To Privilege, Equality Feels Like Oppression". With the DUP making concessions is like taking a political black eye. Their base needs to be appeased at every hands turn, like most every party. I don't think the DUP would last long if they were to make too many concessions.

IMO, we've a situation were the institutions of state were wrong in many actions over many years. It's not easy for them to change their attitudes as it could easily lead to an admittance of state sanctioned wrong doing.

Living your life now and not constantly dwelling on the past would probably help those who are currently unable to move forward-until they do they will be viewed with suspicion and people will be loath to engage with them-its a vicious circle.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They don't have to do it. You do know councils have done this already?



I am interested (as I have asked you before) why this simple thing is objected to or would be objected to? Every settlement on this island had an Irish name. Some still have them.

Do you know why anyone would have a problem with it and why?

Because it has been used in such a negative way during a recent conflict Mant unionists have been left with a bad taste about it. This is sad, but it is associated so much with putting brits out and painted on walls during intimidation.
dont know how to exoplain without a bit of whataboutery. but the red hand of ulster may be an equivalent. Stronly associated with all communities here but unionists like to put it on gable walls and lamposts and it pi**es off some nationalists

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

In Newry they vote as a Street to have them erected.

Also, I know common sense is in short supply amongst loyalists but you could also have self awareness, like, you wouldn't think of asking to march down the Falls or past Holy Cross school or the Garvaghy now would ya?

Bonnie we are back to your displays of prejudice.
My local nationalist council is spending a fortune continually replacing 'welcome to NM&D council' that they are placing in strongly unionis areas.

So maybe nationalists are not quite as considerate as you think

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Again with your equating of the use of a language to the actions of a sectarian organisation.

---

Re Derry, we already refer to it correctly and use the name that most people call it by.

We also use the name that a huge majority of its residents use.

Does the use of Derry offend you? You've a very thin skin.

Also, you wouldn't be sanctioning interference in the politics of a foreign country now would you?

Do you ever query why County Down is so-called?

This more of the SF PR machine at work. I haven't checked recently but my understanding is that the official name is Londonderry. I couldn't care less what anyone calls it. Just refering to it as many nationalists are shocked that road signs could offend anyone and i am wondering could this be the reason that it is the only sign i am aware of in ROI that does not give the offical - but maybe they are just short of ink

James Brown

RobMc59 wrote: »

Living your life now and not constantly dwelling on the past would probably help those who are currently unable to move forward-until they do they will be viewed with suspicion and people will be loath to engage with them-its a vicious circle.

But they are the biggest party up there. We can only try I suppose.
I think the issues are current but because of the past, as I said, it's difficult for the likes of the DUP and British government to come to the table without preconditions designed to protect their histories and of course dealing with SF's too, but again SF may be seeking a UI but they don't own the concept.

McMurphy

downcow wrote: »

Because it has been used in such a negative way during a recent conflict Mant unionists have been left with a bad taste about it. This is sad, but it is associated so much with putting brits out and painted on walls during intimidation.
dont know how to exoplain without a bit of whataboutery. but the red hand of ulster may be an equivalent. Stronly associated with all communities here but unionists like to put it on gable walls and lamposts and it pi**es off some nationalists

Tyrone and Antrim folk have the best of both worlds so.





From memory, Cavan and Monaghan also have the red hand of Ulster on their crest too, but I'm keeping it to the six counties for now.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Throughout this thread I have just found it so fascinating because the reactions of some would lead you to believe that unionists are the maligned minority under a jurisdiction they do not want.

It has always been thus that any inch that Nationalists get in the name of equality has to be matched somehow for unionism to save face.

It's not seen as Nationalists getting Equal, it's seen as unionists losing status.

And I'm sorry, I'm not really in the humour of putting up with this nonsense. To be offended at the language by which all of these people owe placenames and their dialectical ticks to is beyond bizarre. And just the latest in the goalposts being shifted once more.

It's maddening.

So how about using the correct name for our 2nd second from now on?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Because it has been used in such a negative way during a recent conflict Mant unionists have been left with a bad taste about it. This is sad, but it is associated so much with putting brits out and painted on walls during intimidation.
dont know how to exoplain without a bit of whataboutery. but the red hand of ulster may be an equivalent. Stronly associated with all communities here but unionists like to put it on gable walls and lamposts and it pi**es off some nationalists

So Unionists would then be okay with banning the Union Jack from any public display- because it reminds many of bad times and putting them down.

See where this is going?

It's a feeble 'excuse'. Your problem should be those who wrote the slogans, not with the language it was written in. There have been plenty also written in English, but how ridiculous would it be proposing banning English as a result?

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's just the standard whataboutery and neverism. And that's fine.

But just be upfront about it and stop tying yourself in knots.

You are a wee bit silent over Londonderry Bonnie, and i haven't even mentioned the signs entering NI that are defaced regularly

downcow

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Derry has.a nationalist population of close to 75%.

Why would anyone have any problem with the locals referring to the city they reside calling it whatever the hell they want?

No problem to unionists as far as i know. I just know the BBC etc get complaints if they use londonderry too often

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Because it has been used in such a negative way during a recent conflict Mant unionists have been left with a bad taste about it. This is sad, but it is associated so much with putting brits out and painted on walls during intimidation.
dont know how to exoplain without a bit of whataboutery. but the red hand of ulster may be an equivalent. Stronly associated with all communities here but unionists like to put it on gable walls and lamposts and it pi**es off some nationalists

Irish was painted on walls to intimidate?
Hmmmm...

BonnieSituation

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Tyrone and Antrim folk have the best of both worlds so.





From memory, Cavan and Monaghan also have the red hand of Ulster on their crest too, but I'm keeping it to the six counties for now.

As does Louth... And Cavan...

The Red Hand is an ancient Irish symbol. Who am I to argue its use to represent people of Ulster, Breffni and Oriel, no matter their creed.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Bonnie we are back to your displays of prejudice.
My local nationalist council is spending a fortune continually replacing 'welcome to NM&D council' that they are placing in strongly unionis areas.

So maybe nationalists are not quite as considerate as you think

So again I ask, what's the offence?

Why is Down so-called?

Have you complained to NMD Council?

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

This more of the SF PR machine at work. I haven't checked recently but my understanding is that the official name is Londonderry. I couldn't care less what anyone calls it. Just refering to it as many nationalists are shocked that road signs could offend anyone and i am wondering could this be the reason that it is the only sign i am aware of in ROI that does not give the offical - but maybe they are just short of ink

Do you want to try that post again in English?

No idea what you're asking.

Also, SF don't own nationalism or the UI concept. So calm your hole with the "SF this SF that" nonsense.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

So how about using the correct name for our 2nd second from now on?

What? Now your offence has moved on to the use of Derry as the name of the city?

My Christ.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

You are a wee bit silent over Londonderry Bonnie, and i haven't even mentioned the signs entering NI that are defaced regularly

Silent how?

Those poor wee signs.

Avatar MIA

downcow wrote: »

So how about using the correct name for our 2nd [city] second from now on?

Do you mean Belfast or Béal Feirste?

jm08

downcow wrote: »

So how about using the correct name for our 2nd second from now on?

Because apart from anything else its too long - Londonderry / Doire.

Interesting that the Royal Irish don't have a problem with the Irish language - Faugh A Ballagh.

BonnieSituation

As I posted just above, the Red Hand Commandos don't even have issues with Irish.

Lámh Dearg Abú!

downcow

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Tyrone and Antrim folk have the best of both worlds so.





From memory, Cavan and Monaghan also have the red hand of Ulster on their crest too, but I'm keeping it to the six counties for now.

Thank you. This is exactly my point. Why are some nationalists so annoyed when it is on a flag pole to celebrate NI ?

downcow

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Do you mean Belfast or Béal Feirste?

Nice one avatar. That was a rib tickler. I did enjoy it. Can’t do smiley faces or I would have given you a few. Last time I done one I got a two week ban.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What? Now your offence has moved on to the use of Derry as the name of the city?

My Christ.

I am not in the slightest offended. I am a Presbyterian and we are very much into individuality. So I love the diversity.
Just wondering why so many nationalists don’t like to refer to the maiden city by its correct name. And why roi feel the need to change its name on road signs?? Simple question

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

Why are some nationalists so annoyed when it is on a flag pole to celebrate NI ?

NI doesn't have a flag and doesn't have an anthem because it's not a country.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Thank you. This is exactly my point. Why are some nationalists so annoyed when it is on a flag pole to celebrate NI ?

Because it's not the red hand that is at issue. It's the Ulster Banner, or the UVF (and other degenerate organisations') flags that happens
to contain the red hand.

And those flags are usually put up to intimate and to lord over Nationalist locals.

Big question is why you need flags up at all bar specific celebrations?

Are you that uncomfortable with your own culture that you need to accentuate and advertise it incessantly? That seems rather sad to me. Especially when you're the group living under the jurisdiction you want to.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

NI doesn't have a flag and doesn't have an anthem because it's not a country.

Thanks junkyard for your support. It’s not often we agree. But yes we have the UK flag and UK anthem. But it’s also nice to have the red hand for sporting stuff. I just wish we had a sporting anthem to like Scotland, England and Wales. Londonderry aire just doesn’t do it for me.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Because it's not the red hand that is at issue. It's the Ulster Banner, or the UVF (and other degenerate organisations') flags that happens
to contain the red hand.

And those flags are usually put up to intimate and to lord over Nationalist locals.

Big question is why you need flags up at all bar specific celebrations?

Are you that uncomfortable with your own culture that you need to accentuate and advertise it incessantly? That seems rather sad to me. Especially when you're the group living under the jurisdiction you want to.

I am very sorry Bonnie. I’ll speak to my community tomorrow and tell them that Bonnie is sad about how we want to celebrate our culture and she would like us to have some diddly Dee bands and dance with our arms by our sides And why not also play a game dominantly with our hands and call it football.
You must be having a laugh Bonnie if you think we should display our culture to make you happy.

Junkyard Tom

In the future Downcow you'll be the one who'll need to make the case for the continuing existence of NI. Can you make a good case for the continuation of British jurisdiction in the north?