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If a bus tries to run you off the road...

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24

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    #32
    gk5000
    Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭gk5000


    mrcheez wrote: »
    Just to clarify.

    I was ahead of the bus, not cycling beside it when we first crossed paths.

    The bus came up behind me, hooted, then proceeded to overtake and move in LEFT as it did so in an attempt to push me into the crowded bike lane.

    I narrowly avoided a collision with an elderly gent on his bike to my left as I was forced left.

    So nothing about my "conduct" could prevent the actions of someone dangerously overtaking and forcing me off the road.

    The bus wasn't pulling into pick-up/drop-off, it just simply barged it's way through.
    See my previous post which crossed- but it looks like you yourself were doing a dangerous overtaking - at minimum that you did not have somewhere to pull in when you started your overtaking - and did not check if there was someone behind you when you pulled out.


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    #33
    gk5000
    Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭gk5000


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    That's a silly analogy. Cars have protective measures in their construction to aid safety. Are you seriously saying that a cyclist v bus is the same as car v car?
    Are you saying a bus is supposed to yield to a cyclist - when it is ahead of the cyclist?
    Edit to add - the cyclist has no more rights than the bus/car just because its a cyclist.


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    #34
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    gk5000 wrote: »
    See my previous post which crossed- but it looks like you yourself were doing a dangerous overtaking - at minimum that you did not have somewhere to pull in when you started your overtaking - and did not check if there was someone behind you when you pulled out.
    gk5000 wrote: »
    Are you saying a bus is supposed to yield to a cyclist - when it is ahead of the cyclist?

    Did you read the same OP as the rest of us? :confused:


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    #35
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,995 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    gk5000 wrote: »
    ... you did not have somewhere to pull in when you started your overtaking...
    He had no obligation to pull in as he is perfectly legally entitled to utilise the bus lane. He effectively changed lanes. The bus driver could have waited behind or moved across to the normal traffic lane.


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    #36
    gk5000
    Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭gk5000


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    Did you read the same OP as the rest of us? :confused:
    Well lets see - how many abreast was he overtaking if the cycle lane was packed - if he had somewhere to pull in.


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    #37
    gk5000
    Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭gk5000


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    He had no obligation to pull in as he is perfectly legally entitled to utilise the bus lane. He effectively changed lanes. The bus driver could have waited behind or moved across to the normal traffic lane.
    That is a worrying comment - so he's entitled to impede the bus and expect it to wait?
    I think its classed as cycling/driving without care and attention - without due consideration to other road users.


    Just cos your a cyclist doesn't mean you have to be biassed - or not see the other side.

    Edit to add - your friend is in a hurry so makes an unsafe overtaking of other cyclists out of the dedicated cycle lane - yes expects the bus to either slow down for him or make an unsafe maneuver into the regular traffic lane!


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    #38
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    gk5000 wrote: »
    Well lets see - how many abreast was he overtaking if the cycle lane was packed - if he had somewhere to pull in.

    Why pull in? OP is cycling in the bus lane, bus overtakes the OP, bus deliberately tries to run him off the road. The only illegal/unsafe manover is done by the bus driver? the cycle lane and how many cyclists are on it is irrelevant.


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    #39
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    gk5000 wrote: »
    Well lets see - how many abreast was he overtaking if the cycle lane was packed - if he had somewhere to pull in.
    Is that relevant?


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    #40
    wench
    Registered Users Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭wench


    gk5000 wrote: »
    Are you saying a bus is supposed to yield to a cyclist - when it is ahead of the cyclist?
    You can't get half the bus ahead of the cyclist and then just move left and expect them to vanish!


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    #41
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,995 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    gk5000 - I used to be a bus driver. I know what's it's like. In the OP's scenario, the driver appears to have bullied the cyclist by making a close pass yet you think the cyclist is at fault even though the cyclist has done nothing illegal.

    Would the driver do that during a bus driving test?


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    #42
    green123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,680 ✭✭✭green123


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    you have no idea what the cycle lane provided was like. you're assuming it's safer than the bus lane. many cycle lanes in ireland are not fit for purpose or safe, one of the reasons they've removed the requirements for cyclists to use them.

    so again, citation required.

    How about you give us the figures for the amount of cyclists killed on the road and then give us the figures for how many were killed while in a cycle lane ?

    Even without looking it up what do you think the answer will be ?

    I really don't know why you are persisting with this.


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    #43
    gk5000
    Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭gk5000


    seamus wrote: »
    Is that relevant?
    Well of the cyclists were already packed / two abreast then he should not have passed to become three abreast - or are cyclist allowed to take all the available road space?


    I'm not sure of the law for cyclist on this - but for a car you are required to make sure the road is clear ahead so you can pull in before you pass - but at minimum it is sensible to ensure you have somewhere to pull in after you pass - and not leave your self in space like this cyclist did.


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    #44
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    The law isn't that you're allowed cycle in the bus lane if you need to overtake people in a cycle lane.

    The law is that you're allowed cycle in the bus lane. Full stop.


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    #45
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,591 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    green123 wrote: »
    How about you give us the figures for the amount of cyclists killed on the road and then give us the figures for how many were killed while in a cycle lane ?

    Even without looking it up what do you think the answer will be ?

    I really don't know why you are persisting with this.
    if there were no cyclists killed while cycling a green trek hybrid in the last five years, does that make green trek hybrids safer to cycle?

    i'm 'persisting' with this because there are cycle lanes i refuse to use because they are not fit for purpose, and would place me in greater danger than using the road.
    your assumption that a cycle lane is automatically safer than the road is just a little odd.


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    #46
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    gk5000 wrote: »

    I'm not sure of the law for cyclist

    agreed


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    #47
    green123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,680 ✭✭✭green123


    mrcheez wrote: »
    Just to clarify.

    So nothing about my "conduct" could prevent the actions of someone dangerously overtaking and forcing me off the road.

    The bus wasn't pulling into pick-up/drop-off, it just simply barged it's way through.

    Of course the bus driver was wrong to do that.

    And in my example the person robbing the iPhone and robbing the bike are also wrong.

    Your conduct and your decision not to use the cycle lane contributed to this.

    Just like the person wandering around flashing an iphone or the person who doesn't lock their bike properly also contributed to getting them stolen.

    Did the bus nearly hit any of the cyclists who chose to cycle in the cycle lane ?


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    #48
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    gk5000 wrote: »
    Well of the cyclists were already packed / two abreast then he should not have passed to become three abreast
    You don't seem to know or understand the law.

    An individual cyclist may overtake any number of cyclists, even if that results in them riding 3/4/5/90 abreast, provided that they are performing an overtake.

    Cyclists may always ride 2 abreast, regardless of whether they are overtaking or not.


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    #49
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    green123 wrote: »

    Your conduct and your decision not to use the cycle lane contributed to this.

    Absolute rubbish! the bus driver did not have to deliberately try to push the cyclist out of the bus lane.


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    #50
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,774 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    gk5000 wrote: »
    See my previous post which crossed- but it looks like you yourself were doing a dangerous overtaking - at minimum that you did not have somewhere to pull in when you started your overtaking - and did not check if there was someone behind you when you pulled out.

    Hmm where did I say I pulled out to overtake? I was maintaining a steady position in the bus lane as the cycle lane was full of slower cyclists.

    If you are suggesting I keep swerving in and out of the bike lane as I overtake each cyclist then *that* is considered dangerous.


    Again think of the analogy of the two cars. One car is in the lane (the bike in this instance), the other car (bus) overtakes when it is safe to do so and only moves left in the lane after having passed the first car. They don't move left WHILE in the overtake, thus pushing the first car left.


    They really should make cycling-proficiency a requirement for learner drivers as it makes you a much better driver.


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    #51
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,591 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    green123 wrote: »
    Your conduct and your decision not to use the cycle lane contributed to this.
    we've been through this. the OP was in the cycle lane - there were two provided.


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    #52
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    we've been through this. the OP was in the cycle lane - there were two provided.

    Maybe a better way of explaining cycle lanes is to state that the only lanes that are NOT cycle lanes are on Motorways! ;)


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    #53
    Lewotsil
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭Lewotsil


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    green123 wrote: »
    Most people don't need statistics to figure out things that are very obvious.

    Do you really think both options are equally safe  ?
    you have no idea what the cycle lane provided was like. you're assuming it's safer than the bus lane. many cycle lanes in ireland are not fit for purpose or safe, one of the reasons they've removed the requirements for cyclists to use them.

    so again, citation required.
    Fully agreed @magicbastarder ..... three times I have been knocked off my bike this year .....all whilst cycling on the N11 cycle lane......... to try and predict behaviour of a pedestrian with headphones in is nigh impossible......... ogh and the driver of the car that came out of his driveway and wiped me was in fairness very apologetic.   
    Cyclists are entitled to cycle in 'bus lane' end of.  I have had multiple experiences similar to OP on the N11.
    All you can do is report them........... they will kill someone someday ....Dublin bus drivers have told me (invariably at the next red light) that cyclists cannot be in the bus lane .....muppets.


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    #54
    gk5000
    Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭gk5000


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    gk5000 - I used to be a bus driver. I know what's it's like. In the OP's scenario, the driver appears to have bullied the cyclist by making a close pass yet you think the cyclist is at fault even though the cyclist has done nothing illegal.

    Would the driver do that during a bus driving test?
    It was reasonable for the bus driver to beep - and would have been reasonable for the OP to get our of the way of the bus.


    Thereafter we only have the OP's side of the story - which on the face of it looks dodgy to me - and he hasn't answered a few queries on it yet - so how far ahead was the bus when he pulled in?



    The was overtaking himself - bombing along - and seems to have expected everybody to dance around him - and is indignant when that did not happen.


    My reason for posting is for people to look at the other side - and to avoid this self entitled attitude which seems to be very pervasive in cycling and is doing cyclists no favors. How many cyclists agree with at least some of what I'm saying but still are trying to defend the OP - who's actions are at least questionable - contrary to his own opinion (though lets wait for his answers).


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    #55
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,774 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    Lewotsil wrote: »
    Dublin bus drivers have told me (invariably at the next red light) that cyclists cannot be in the bus lane .....muppets.

    Serious question: do they not take a course on the rules of the road as part of their training?


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    #56
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,774 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    gk5000 wrote: »
    It was reasonable for the bus driver to beep - and would have been reasonable for the OP to get our of the way of the bus.

    The bus driver beeped.

    2 seconds later he was by my side.

    So I can only assume he beeped WHILE overtaking without giving me a chance to pass the group that had taken up the cycle lane to the LHS so I could move in.
    gk5000 wrote: »
    My reason for posting is for people to look at the other side - and to avoid this self entitled attitude which seems to be very pervasive in cycling and is doing cyclists no favors.

    Again, victim blaming. Funny that :)


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    #57
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,995 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    gk5000 wrote: »
    It was reasonable for the bus driver to beep - and would have been reasonable for the OP to get our of the way of the bus....
    You really need to familiarise yourself with the road traffic regulations before getting into a debate.


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    #58
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    gk5000 wrote: »


    My reason for posting is for people to look at the other side - and to avoid this self entitled attitude which seems to be very pervasive in cycling and is doing cyclists no favors. How many cyclists agree with at least some of what I'm saying but still are trying to defend the OP - who's actions are at least questionable - contrary to his own opinion (though lets wait for his answers).

    1. Most cyclist are also Motorists so we can see it from both side and have experienced similar situations to the one described by the OP

    2. I do not agree... the only questionable actions are the actions of the Bus driver.


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    #59
    gk5000
    Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭gk5000


    mrcheez wrote: »
    Hmm where did I say I pulled out to overtake? I was maintaining a steady position in the bus lane as the cycle lane was full of slower cyclists.

    If you are suggesting I keep swerving in and out of the bike lane as I overtake each cyclist then *that* is considered dangerous.


    Again think of the analogy of the two cars. One car is in the lane (the bike in this instance), the other car (bus) overtakes when it is safe to do so and only moves left in the lane after having passed the first car. They don't move left WHILE in the overtake, thus pushing the first car left.


    They really should make cycling-proficiency a requirement for learner drivers as it makes you a much better driver.
    OP - you were overtaking. Your mincing of words .."steady position" makes you less believable to me - disingenuous.

    Yes, you should pass and then pull in, then check if the road is clear ahead and behind before you consider your next maneuver.

    You were obviously going faster than the road conditions with the other cyclists allowed - sequentially passing them - and instead tried to pass everybody - blocking upto 70 other people in a bus trying to get home - even after the bus beeped at you.

    I'm guessing from your responses above that you kept pedal to metal to prevent the bus pulling in - so again a bit disingenuous to say the bus swerved in to "kill you" or "attempted murder" or whatever hyperbole you posted.

    And your cycling friends are lapping this up and egging you on.


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    #60
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    gk5000 wrote: »
    OP - you were overtaking. Your mincing of words .."steady position" makes you less believable to me - disingenuous.

    Yes, you should pass and then pull in, then check if the road is clear ahead and behind before you consider your next maneuver.
    Ignoring the fact that OP never said he was overtaking, the legislation doesn't explicitly require any vehicle to move from the right lane to the left lane before they begin a new overtaking maneuver. Multiple overtakes are perfectly legal while the conditions allow.
    even after the bus beeped at you.
    Irrelevant. A beep is an alert to a vehicle's presence. It confers no right of way on the beeper, nor obligation on the beepee.


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    #61
    gk5000
    Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭gk5000


    seamus wrote: »
    Ignoring the fact that OP never said he was overtaking, the legislation doesn't explicitly require any vehicle to move from the right lane to the left lane before they begin a new overtaking maneuver. Multiple overtakes are perfectly legal while the conditions allow.
    Irrelevant. A beep is an alert to a vehicle's presence. It confers no right of way on the beeper, nor obligation on the beepee.
    He said he was in the bus lane because the cycle lane was packed with slower cyclists - so he was overtaking even if he and you for some reason do not accept that.
    Conditions did not allow multiple overtakes, as he was impeding the bus - being inconsiderate to other road users - just because he was in a hurry or training.
    Yes agree on the beep, but with the alert - the op should should have completed his manouver and pulled in .. to the space that he had previously ascertained was available to him.
    If there was no space available to him then he was overtaking recklessly.


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