Trainer road for structured training

sullzz

Hi guys , so I’m just back on the bike after 8 weeks off due to collarbone surgery .
Fitness is gone completely as I couldn’t use the turbo after having the surgery , any movement was too painful .
I’ve also been out of work for the 8 weeks and heading back on Monday , so will be facing a huge workload . Because of this I will be probably spending most of my training time on the turbo in the evenings , so am contemplating using Trainer road.
Do any of you guys use it ? , if so , are their structured plans any use ? I have a power meter that I will be using rather than the virtual power .

doozerie

I've been using it for a few years and I'm a fan of it.

There are loads of workouts to choose from, the app lets you select from them by things like training zone and the like which helps but unless you have a good idea of the kinds of sessions you want to do you could just lose yourself in the sheer volume of choice at least initially. There are training plans too though and that's probably the best place to start.

I worked my way through one or two of the training plans for last season and found them quite good. Also exposed me to some workouts that I probably wouldn't have chosen otherwise, and I found myself going back to some of those regularly later as I found them useful.

sullzz

doozerie wrote: »

I've been using it for a few years and I'm a fan of it.

There are loads of workouts to choose from, the app lets you select from them by things like training zone and the like which helps but unless you have a good idea of the kinds of sessions you want to do you could just lose yourself in the sheer volume of choice at least initially. There are training plans too though and that's probably the best place to start.

I worked my way through one or two of the training plans for last season and found them quite good. Also exposed me to some workouts that I probably wouldn't have chosen otherwise, and I found myself going back to some of those regularly later as I found them useful.

Do you find the ramp test accurate as a test for FTP or do you do the 20min test

doozerie

I've used the 20min and the (2x) 8min FTP tests. I found them accurate "enough" in that it was useful to test myself in the same scenario as I was going to be training in. And I did see my measured FTP figure change/increase as I worked through their plans so that gave me further reassurance that they are a reliable measure. I was using virtual power at the time.

When I (much) later tested myself on the road, with a power meter, I got a significantly higher figure. There are obviously lots of possible explanations for that, one being that my test on the turbo was under estimating it, but long story short I progressed on the turbo trainer based entirely on the FTP I measured there regularly and basing the turbo sessions on that measured figure

Macy0161

I've been using TrainerRoad a few years now. I've nothing really to compare it too, but I've definitely got stronger with it.

I used to do the 20 minute test, and was a beta tester for the ramp test. I didn't trust it initially, as it gave a lower figure! However, I haven't had to bail or reduce a vo2 max workout* since I started trusting it. From the podcast, they've a massive amount of data to verify it.

I also like the hardware requirements are a lot less than alternatives like zwift.

*I'd also say just because I could complete other workouts at the 20 minute test FTP, on reflection I'm not sure I was working in the intended zones. I.e. was I doing threshold rather than sweet spot?

dahat

I'm a big fan of TrainerRoad and have been using it for the last two winters for training. It will get you to Feb time in very good shape with little or no road work. I personally combine my chosen plan with a Sunday spin to prevent the mi d going bananas from indoor trainong over 3 months.

Sweet spot base is where I start each winter and go from there, workouts are progressive and include single leg drills, cadence work, strength work etc, ideal for your situation.

As you can see from my Strava I use it year round for specific work like VO2 that are hard to get right on the road.

sullzz

dahat wrote: »

I'm a big fan of TrainerRoad and have been using it for the last two winters for training. It will get you to Feb time in very good shape with little or no road work. I personally combine my chosen plan with a Sunday spin to prevent the mi d going bananas from indoor trainong over 3 months.

Sweet spot base is where I start each winter and go from there, workouts are progressive and include single leg drills, cadence work, strength work etc, ideal for your situation.

As you can see from my Strava I use it year round for specific work like VO2 that are hard to get right on the road.

yeah i see youre a big fan of it
id be like yourself , using mostly evenings as would need to get out on the road at least one day of the weekend to keep sane . although id be commuting to and from work most days on the bike , so will probably pick a mid level plan otherwise i could see myself burning out before the season even begins.
how did you find the FTP tests ? did you find their ramp test accurate enough ?

dahat

sullzz wrote: »

yeah i see youre a big fan of it
id be like yourself , using mostly evenings as would need to get out on the road at least one day of the weekend to keep sane . although id be commuting to and from work most days on the bike , so will probably pick a mid level plan otherwise i could see myself burning out before the season even begins.
how did you find the FTP tests ? did you find their ramp test accurate enough ?

Haven't done a ramp test yet but will be soon once I have a few recovery days planned. As for the actual result it's relevant to the workouts on TrainerRoad and easily adjustable via intensity level on each workout.

You will have a retest every 8 weeks with most of the plans, I'd have a fair idea of where my ftp is without testing due to trial & error so I tend to miss the tests unless absolutely nessecary.

You won't burn out from it, the plans are progressive and while tough the recovery weeks are well positioned to give you max benefit from it.

Macy0161

The ramp test is fine. There's no comparison to what a 20 minute test takes out of you. No pacing needed, and if on a smart trainer all you're really worried about is cadence. It's the last couple of minutes that "hurt", straight into cool down, and you can do another workout. I couldn't see me going back to another testing protocol.

dahat

Do another workout after an FTP test? Christ I've gotten all sort of wobbly legs getting off the turbo when done!!!

Chumpski

Huge fan of trainer road here and have got great results from it in the past 12 months.

At ~ 9 euro a month its nearly as good as having a personal coach and much cheaper.

The podcasts are excellent, try and get through them all, great training, racing advice as well as some perspective on off road racing which i wouldn't have too much experience with.

doozerie

On that subjective topic of time best spent, I consistently find that I come away from sessions on the turbo feeling as if every moment was well spent. I rarely get that when I try to simulate the same sessions on the road, spend so much time faffing about trying to find the right gear for the ever changing road gradient (I focus on cadence a lot for my sessions) that I'm almost finished an effort by the time I get properly settled into it.

So more often than not, for any planned session under 90 minutes I tend to choose the turbo over a road session. Which some internal voice of reason tells me is wrong, very wrong. On the plus side, what with my puffing and wheezing and grunting on the turbo, I generally drown out that voice of reason.

Chumpski

doozerie wrote: »

On that subjective topic of time best spent, I consistently find that I come away from sessions on the turbo feeling as if every moment was well spent. I rarely get that when I try to simulate the same sessions on the road, spend so much time faffing about trying to find the right gear for the ever changing road gradient (I focus on cadence a lot for my sessions) that I'm almost finished an effort by the time I get properly settled into it.

So more often than not, for any planned session under 90 minutes I tend to choose the turbo over a road session. Which some internal voice of reason tells me is wrong, very wrong. On the plus side, what with my puffing and wheezing and grunting on the turbo, I generally drown out that voice of reason.

What is also great is having a good plan to follow. They are not individual plans but are very good and not having to think about what your going to do today is super valuable, you just get your ass on the bike, take it 1 interval at a time and get quality work done.

For sanity sake and for the sake of not be on the trainer all the time and enjoying the bike i do all 1/1.5 hours at Z1/2 outside and just roughly follow the power targets the trainerroad workout mentions. I also dont do more than 2 hours on the trainer as thats nuts and will surely lead to burniut which is what base plans do. I chose sweet spot base which is max 2 hour sessions.

Also i get out on the bike for at least 1 long spin a week in Winter and then for races in Summer.

nordicb

Trainerroad is good, but I find it very boring on it's own, very repetitive too. There is no intelligence in their plans to take into account times when life gets in the way- kids, days off, family time, work, fatigue, race day, etc, so you'll need to plan a lot yourself and listen to your body. Skip a day and trainerroad plan goes from little to way off in terms of which day to do what and TSS. Personally I take their plans as a guidance only.

martyc5674

Has anyone done any of the structured programmes on Zwift?
How would they compare with trainer road?
I use Zwift through the poor weather and enjoy it... To me TR looks like a poor interface but I’ve omly seen YouTube vids etc.

joey100

Another vote for trainer road. Been using it for around 4 years now and love it. I've had coaches give me plans using their workouts made in the creator, done my own plans and followed trainer road plans. All worked well. At 9 euro a month I'm not sure much will match it for bang for buck. I usually stick on netflix and just put the trainer road bar down the bottom and find it grand. I use it around twice weekly all year and during the winter could be 4 times a week, but I'm a big fan of the turbo and have a fair few 4 and 5 hour spins on it.

Tried zwift for a while but never followed their plans. Found it good at the start but the novelty wore off after a while and I went back to trainer road. Never done the racing or anything on it though.

BikeRacer

joey100 wrote: »

...I'm a big fan of the turbo and have a fair few 4 and 5 hour spins on it.

Sweet suffering baby jaaysus.

Macy0161

nordicb wrote:

Trainerroad is good, but I find it very boring on it's own, very repetitive too. There is no intelligence in their plans to take into account times when life gets in the way- kids, days off, family time, work, fatigue, race day, etc, so you'll need to plan a lot yourself and listen to your body. Skip a day and trainerroad plan goes from little to way off in terms of which day to do what and TSS. Personally I take their plans as a guidance only.

In Android at least, you can easily get to the workout variants, and take a minus version when time is tight.

They have a lot of good stuff on their blog as well. I don't think any such plan is able to take into account what you want. But you can pretty much take Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday as the important ones.

Ability to move the workouts around/ calendar function is something they're working on though.

Whyner

Can you create custom workouts in TR like you can in Zwift? I got a spreadsheet from the coach each month and just configured these in Zwift for the months and away I went

I've only ever used Zwift (last 12 months) for training with ERG mode. Might try TR over the winter as the visuals have worn off on me and I just watch Netflix also.

4/5 hour spins is bonkers, my arse cheeks would bleed

coco0981

joey100 wrote: »

I'm a big fan of the turbo and have a fair few 4 and 5 hour spins on it.

Fair play to you that takes some serious determination, I've done 90 minutes on trainerroad but anything longer than that would be torture for me

Sinbad_NI

Trainerroad is great. Yes you can make custom workouts as well.

Add a Netflix account to watch during base phase and you're all set.

Boscoirl

Signed up to trainer road today, just did the ramp test, looks good so far,

Have gotten lazy recently so hopefully it’ll give me the kick up the ass I need

sullzz

Boscoirl wrote: »

Signed up to trainer road today, just did the ramp test, looks good so far,

Have gotten lazy recently so hopefully it’ll give me the kick up the ass I need

Signed up myself yesterday , did the ramp test ..... didn’t look so good

dahat

sullzz wrote: »

Signed up myself yesterday , did the ramp test ..... didn’t look so good

Big difference between this result and peak racing season ftp? 70 watts maybe?

sullzz

dahat wrote: »

Big difference between this result and peak racing season ftp? 70 watts maybe?

Nice a bad guess man , down 61w since June .
Well last FTP was start of June , crashed I think end of June so maybe a slightly higher loss .

dahat

sullzz wrote: »

Nice a bad guess man , down 61w since June .
Well last FTP was start of June , crashed I think end of June so maybe a slightly higher loss .

I'd say i was bang on the money then!

I dropped 30 watts ftp with 6 weeks off but i got it back fairly quickly i reckon so my next assessment will be interesting.

Did you do the ramp test on a non smart turbo?

Macy0161

dahat wrote: »

Did you do the ramp test on a non smart turbo?

Just to jump in, I recently got a hammer, and the ramp test is definitely easier than it was on non smart turbo. I kept mucking up the gearing near the end, but much easier just having a comfortable cadence (until it's not comfortable!). But when I first got the hammer, I did do another ramp test only a couple of days from the previous "dumb" attempt - a 1 watt difference...

dahat

Macy0161 wrote: »

Just to jump in, I recently got a hammer, and the ramp test is definitely easier than it was on non smart turbo. I kept mucking up the gearing near the end, but much easier just having a comfortable cadence (until it's not comfortable!). But when I first got the hammer, I did do another ramp test only a couple of days from the previous "dumb" attempt - a 1 watt difference...

Yeah, it was the gearing when at full pelt that concerns me. At least when doing the normal FTP i can just kiss the stem n drive on.

I do find the 11-25 block much better for the turbo as opposed to 11-28. Cadence alot easier find on the 25 block.

bp_me

nordicb wrote: »

Trainerroad is good, but I find it very boring on it's own, very repetitive too. There is no intelligence in their plans to take into account times when life gets in the way- kids, days off, family time, work, fatigue, race day, etc, so you'll need to plan a lot yourself and listen to your body. Skip a day and trainerroad plan goes from little to way off in terms of which day to do what and TSS. Personally I take their plans as a guidance only.

Yes it can be a problem. Depending on your volume you have to decide either to do it a day later or to skip it entirely.

Calendar feature is in development to hopefully solve these sorts of things for people.

nordicb

That's what I do, ignore days/weeks assignments, just follow the program by feel and target TSS (often missed ).

doozerie

One good feature recently added to TrainerRoad is that you can upload your non-turbo rides so that it shows your accurate overall TSS per week (and if you use a power meter on the road it means you get to see your power performance relative to your turbo sessions too).

It doesn't turn TrainerRoad into my one-stop shop for tracking all aspects of my training, but it's a good step towards that.