Slieve Bloom trail centre

xxyyzz

GiantRosa wrote: »

Is it obvious where this point is?!
Using Wellboss's Garmin link

Actually my apologies, I was looking at an old map, I think in the future they will meet but at the moment there is a bit of a distance between the 2 loops.

covey123

This guy has a couple of videos up

https://youtu.be/TmZAddLvaTQ

Tenzor07

covey123 wrote: »

This guy has a couple of videos up
https://youtu.be/TmZAddLvaTQ

Looks like he ran out of Coillte track after 2mins22 and went onto natural trails.

Biopace

Was up there Saturday, I thought the trails were great, especially the last three, fast and flowey, v like BPI blue trails. Did some of the natural trails too. The place will be excellent when done, beautiful part of the country too. Going up again in a few days for a bit of an explore.

xxyyzz

Biopace wrote: »

Was up there Saturday, I thought the trails were great, especially the last three, fast and flowey, v like BPI blue trails. Did some of the natural trails too. The place will be excellent when done, beautiful part of the country too. Going up again in a few days for a bit of an explore.

And there are those on here who will tell you that you're wrong, you can't have fun on Coillte trails.

iwillhtfu

xxyyzz wrote: »

And there are those on here who will tell you that you're wrong, you can't have fun on Coillte trails.

I don't think anyone said that to be honest.

prunudo

Anyone been down yet, see Greg Callaghan had an Instagram video up, seemed to be getting decent pace with plenty of flow.

bogmanfan

Went down today with my wife and we did the 14km loop from Kinnitty. It's quite short but seriously good fun. It's a case of climb straight to the top, and then descend straight to the bottom so all the climbing is at the start. But when you start descending, the flow and speed are fantastic. Can't wait for the rest of the trails to open.

ravydavygravy

We took a trip down the other day as well, enjoyed it a lot. We put up some video of the downhill bits also. The climb up is 90% forest roads, but fairly gradual climb to the top - maybe 5km, with 300m ascent? There's one other short uphill (1km) between the first and second downhill sections.

https://youtu.be/fX-CLmvTBwU

ravydavygravy

Here's a vid of the other trails, the red ones in Baunreagh - I hadn't seen any other videos of them.

https://youtu.be/DtqqYCGa6PA

prunudo

Cheers for sharing the videos, first thoughts the trails look well made with nice and flowy features. Not very technical but still fun, although as the journey is over an hour, at present they wouldn't entice me down.

Now, this is really the reason for my post. Looked at the Coillte site, is this where we are going in the world. Everything dumbed down to over exaggerating every minor risk. Some of the language and descriptions of the trails is ridiculous. Coillte have to wake up if they think these trails have 'challenging' or 'difficult sections'. Then they call it 'red grade' and describe its difficulty as difficult/severe. I don't know who they are aiming the trails for, but I can't see hordes of over seas visiters coming if thats the extent of the which they'll make the trails any way challenging.

And not taking away from what the lads have built so far, it looks a good job, but their grading and what they perceive to be technical or difficult is way off.

TRAIL MAP
This is a challenging trail throughout as the trails vary from fast and flowing to tight, technical and rocky, with numerous difficult sections along the route. The trail constantly twists and turns and rises up and down. This trail tests all a riders skills and abilities and is not for novice riders (red grade trail).

Over half of the loop is singletrack and these sections are narrow, sometimes steep and up to 800mm in width, with variable surfaces including rock, roots, mud, loose stones and gravel that may become slippery when wet. The singletrack also crosses walking trails and forest roads at a number of points so watch out for walkers here. The remainder of the loop is on forest roads and you should expect to encounter vehicles and other forest users at any time on these parts of the loop.

The trail is quite exposed on the upper slopes and can be very windy in poor weather. Please make sure your mountain bike is in good working order and that you have an appropriate level of fitness and skill level to undertake these trails. All riders should be appropriately dressed and wear a helmet at all times. Please ride with consideration for the many other forest users and control your speed.

Trail Information:

Trail Name: Slieve Bloom Mountain Bike Trail (Laois)
Start/Finish Point: Baunreagh Car Park
Length: 6km
Time: 60 to 90 minutes
Degree of Difficulty: Difficult/Severe
Meters Climb: 170
Trail Waymarking: Red

ravydavygravy

prunudo wrote: »

Coillte have to wake up if they think these trails have 'challenging' or 'difficult sections'. Then they call it 'red grade' and describe its difficulty as difficult/severe.

I agree - as you can see from the videos, were hardly expert riders, so one of the reasons I put the up us to show that there's nothing tricky on any of these routes, and that anyone could give them a go. The language on the Coillte site was worrying but I figured it was exaggerated, so we gave it a go anyways. The only way you could come a cropper (as a beginner) would be by going too fast and coming off.

prunudo

ravydavygravy wrote: »

I agree - as you can see from the videos, were hardly expert riders, so one of the reasons I put the up us to show that there's nothing tricky on any of these routes, and that anyone could give them a go. The language on the Coillte site was worrying but I figured it was exaggerated, so we gave it a go anyways. The only way you could come a cropper (as a beginner) would be by going too fast and coming off.

And just as well you ignored the wording because its a perfect trail for your ability and for improving confidence on. Like I said, its looks nice and flowy and will be fun to many skill levels but to describe it as difficult/severe is ridiculous. Coillte will scare newcomers away with their over exaggeration of the risk and more experienced riders will just go back to riding natural trails.

Lemming

prunudo wrote: »

And just as well you ignored the wording because its a perfect trail for your ability and for improving confidence on. Like I said, its looks nice and flowy and will be fun to many skill levels but to describe it as difficult/severe is ridiculous. Coillte will scare newcomers away with their over exaggeration of the risk and more experienced riders will just go back to riding natural trails.

Having watched the videos, I'm of the same opinion as yourself regards the trail ratings prunudo. The trails on show for the most part looked like a fun blast, but most if not all of the sections in the red loop video are nothing above a blue grading. There were a handful (as in counting fingers on one hand across a 13 minute video) of trail features that could possibly be considered borderline between where blue meets red, but on the whole, the 'red' was just a flowy blue. Looked good for what it is, but the trail rating is way off.


Edit: in fairness, trail centre trails/sections wont be as packed with features as a DH trail by nature of what they are because you'd be shattered riding a loop of any meaningful length full of trails all packed with features never mind any consideration of difficulty. That said, it's the difficulty of the features present that I'm commenting on, not that there's not many of them.

iwillhtfu

prunudo wrote: »

Cheers for sharing the videos, first thoughts the trails look well made with nice and flowy features.

I honestly don't want to keep knocking this place but in that video it looks like a lot of pedaling for a red trail. The trails on the kinnity side look a lot more fast and flowy and I'd say there's more chance of someone coming off at speed on the blue trails than those "red" trails.

I do love the location though and if nothing else it will make for some great bike packing adventures on my little burro

boomdocker

ravydavygravy wrote: »

Here's a vid of the other trails, the red ones in Baunreagh - I hadn't seen any other videos of them.

https://youtu.be/DtqqYCGa6PA

Thanks for sharing

The big take-away for me from watching is seeing that younster out front having a blast...

benneca1

iwillhtfu wrote: »

I honestly don't want to keep knocking this place but in that video it looks like a lot of pedaling for a red trail. The trails on the kinnity side look a lot more fast and flowy and I'd say there's more chance of someone coming off at speed on the blue trails than those "red" trails.

I do love the location though and if nothing else it will make for some great bike packing adventures on my little burro

Interesting that other video on the side of the youtube clip is titled Gravel bikes exist because mountain biking is now boring. Am inclined to agree

Claude Burgundy

ravydavygravy wrote: »

We took a trip down the other day as well, enjoyed it a lot. We put up some video of the downhill bits also. The climb up is 90% forest roads, but fairly gradual climb to the top - maybe 5km, with 300m ascent? There's one other short uphill (1km) between the first and second downhill sections.

https://youtu.be/fX-CLmvTBwU

I'm heading over Saturday week, looking forward to it. Well apart from the climb up

iwillhtfu

Claude Burgundy wrote: »

I'm heading over Saturday week, looking forward to it. Well apart from the climb up

The climb up is handy an I'm normally the one giving out on them. I think it's only 3-400m

Lemming

benneca1 wrote: »

Interesting that other video on the side of the youtube clip is titled Gravel bikes exist because mountain biking is now boring. Am inclined to agree

That video was the GCN guys trolling the GMBN audience and general MTB community.

boomdocker

benneca1 wrote: »

Interesting that other video on the side of the youtube clip is titled Gravel bikes exist because mountain biking is now boring. Am inclined to agree

Couldn't disagree more

Went out a few years ago on my cx bike for a so-called 'gravel-ride'

Spent the whole time wishing I was out on my mtb, and never repeated it!

Peter T

benneca1 wrote: »

Interesting that other video on the side of the youtube clip is titled Gravel bikes exist because mountain biking is now boring. Am inclined to agree

You can apply that argument to any discipline of cycling really

MediaMan

ravydavygravy wrote: »

Here's a vid of the other trails, the red ones in Baunreagh - I hadn't seen any other videos of them.

https://youtu.be/DtqqYCGa6PA

It all looks very nice, and could well be worth a trip, but I'm not sure I'd call it mountain biking. Using the UK classification system I'd say it would be blue at most.


https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/cycling-guide/mtb-trail-grading-guide

Claude Burgundy

MediaMan wrote: »

It all looks very nice, and could well be worth a trip, but I'm not sure I'd call it mountain biking. Using the UK classification system I'd say it would be blue at most.


https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/cycling-guide/mtb-trail-grading-guide

We ain't in the UK

Tenzor07

Claude Burgundy wrote: »

We ain't in the UK

What's the difference between the classifications in the UK and Ireland?

prunudo

To be fair, reading that link I can see where they got their grading, it has blue as 2m wide and very few obstacles so probably on the lower end of red.

But as I said already I'm not knocking the builders just the misguided description of it being difficult/severe.

Biopace

MediaMan wrote: »

It all looks very nice, and could well be worth a trip, but I'm not sure I'd call it mountain biking. Using the UK classification system I'd say it would be blue at most.


https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/cycling-guide/mtb-trail-grading-guide

Having ridden the Kinnitty trails a good few times now, I'd say looking at that classification system, they sit somewhere between the Blue and Red.

Having a look at the Laois side this weekend so will report back.

booooonzo

That's a 2012 grading. Bikes have come on along way since as should trails..

Imo a 'trail center' red here should be equivalent to a blue in bike park Wales.

People get hung up on grading, it's All to do with the quality of builder
Blues can be serious fun and blacks horrible

Saying things like we ain't in the UK is not helpful
Why should our standards be any different

Tenzor07

Coillte won't build anything even remotely as challenging as what the likes of bike park Wales have done..


It's all "narrow fireroad" smooth gravel trails here and that's all they will ever build, I don't think they're following the UK standards, what Coillte call Red and Blacks are what Blues would be in Europe, so I think they're just making it up as they're going along...

A decent gravel bike or CX bike will tackle the new trails in Kinnity from what I can see, and the same for Laois...

iwillhtfu

Biopace wrote: »

Having ridden the Kinnitty trails a good few times now, I'd say looking at that classification system, they sit somewhere between the Blue and Red.

Having a look at the Laois side this weekend so will report back.

That trail on the kinnity side isn't even remotely a red trail it's a decent blue trail which gives a rider confidence on berms etc before advancing to red trails which contain features (drops,stepdowns/small jumps etc.)

iwillhtfu

booooonzo wrote: »

That's a 2012 grading. Bikes have come on along way since as should trails..

Imo a 'trail center' red here should be equivalent to a blue in bike park Wales.

People get hung up on grading, it's All to do with the quality of builder
Blues can be serious fun and blacks horrible

Agree with this and a good example are the blue trails in The Gap which are quality and can be ridden at an easy pace or faster to make a bit more exciting/challenging.

The trails at the gap were built by the same designer as BPW I cant recall his name.

Biopace

iwillhtfu wrote: »

That trail on the kinnity side isn't even remotely a red trail it's a decent blue trail which gives a rider confidence on berms etc before advancing to red trails which contain features (drops,stepdowns/small jumps etc.)

I competely agree it is most definitly Blue, I was saying going by that old 2012 UK classification it would be Blue/Red

booooonzo

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Coillte won't build anything even remotely as challenging as what the likes of bike park Wales have done..


It's all "narrow fireroad" smooth gravel trails here and that's all they will ever build, I don't think they're following the UK standards, what Coillte call Red and Blacks are what Blues would be in Europe, so I think they're just making it up as they're going along...

A decent gravel bike or CX bike will tackle the new trails in Kinnity from what I can see, and the same for Laois...

This is a massive misconception.

The blues (not the plus + trails, they have tables and possibly gaps) in BPW are not challenging but are a hell of a lot of fun at speed. (and slower speeds too)
They are what our public Reds should be.

It comes down to the ability of what the men on the ground building are capable and aware and experienced in doing.

The size and scale and flow of the bermed corners in BPW is what sets it apart along with consistent trail width to allow varied line options.

every feature (berm entry/exit, roller doubles, fade aways etc..) is where you expect it to be, this equals total confidence

The surface is bang on with the right mix of soil and stone. (their surface stockpile is so important they cover it!)

I think Coillte want to build high quality trails but have hopefully been learning from past mistakes and learning as they go. It takes mountain bikers and experienced machine operators on the ground to deliver high quality trail.

That is what has been missing.

xxyyzz

These trails were built by the BPI lads, Johnny Maunsell and Gary Davoren from mbw all of whom have more than a little knowledge about what makes a good trail.

covey123

xxyyzz wrote: »

These trails were built by the BPI lads, Johnny Maunsell and Gary Davoren from mbw all of whom have more than a little knowledge about what makes a good trail.

Dead right,Can't knock the builders for what they have made,they are going to be limited as to what they are allowed build, I'm sure they will push it as far as they can

booooonzo

xxyyzz wrote: »

These trails were built by the BPI lads, Johnny Maunsell and Gary Davoren from mbw all of whom have more than a little knowledge about what makes a good trail.

Apologies , I should state I have not ridden slieve blooms.
I am not knocking them lads work as I have not ridden their work.
However I have ridden all other centers and my point still stands.

These are or will be designed to draw overseas tourism.
The competition is there and the standard has been set.
Our reds should be as good or as close as possible to bpw.

We are spending world class money, we deserve world class trails

xxyyzz

You are comparing apples and oranges though, bpw is a bikepark, it's gravity oriented. A trail centre uses a different grading both in the UK and Ireland. I'm not saying that the trails shouldn't be more technical, I'd love if they were, but you have to compare like with like.

booooonzo

But it's not apples to oranges at all.

Firstly the 'trail center' model is outdated and not what people travel for anymore.

The majority don't want big long journey trails with no dedicated descent.

Hence the popularity of bike parks.

Besides we already have that covered in Ballyhoura etc..

I've specifically said the blues in bpw.
They are not technical but very flowy and featured packed and allow progression.
Even if you had to pedal up there, the reward is worth it.
Nothing worse than a nice long ride to the top only to feel like you're pedaling the whole way down too.

At the end of the day and as subjective as a trail is.. a well Built trail in a public location should not have marbly full gravel surface, awkward corners, doubles in wrong places that just don't work, berms that aren't even whacked on the top, berms starting too late ending too early, berms no where near high enough, no constant descending gradient that requires big peadlly efforts between sections.. list goes on but unfortunately this is all to be seen..

However it's all easily fixed with the right crew

But saying we should not have or aim for what's seen as top class because their trails are lift assisted and gravity focused is madness

Why do 'most' people Mountain bike? I doubt it's for the climbs but maybe I'm wrong...

Remember bpw has blue+ , red, red+, black, black+ and pro lines all above the blue grade.

If we are not even delivering blue standard as a red over here then we are doing something very wrong.

prunudo

The question should really be why are trail centres and bike parks graded to different standards and why do trail centres(Coillte) feel the need to exaggerate the difficulty of their terrain/features.

Lemming

booooonzo wrote: »

But it's not apples to oranges at all.

Firstly the 'trail center' model is outdated and not what people travel for anymore.

Don't disagree with anything else you wrote, except the above. The trail centre model is most certainly not dead, as evidenced by traveling the length & breadth of UK; especially Scotland with the Seven Staines. Plenty of traffic at any I've visited; not all MTB traffic mind you (although not quiet in that regard either) as a lot are general outdoor recreational areas too.

xxyyzz was also right in stating that there's an element of apples & oranges in trying to compare trail centres & bike parks. Perhaps not the technicality of features on a track, but most certainly in intensity of features. Take that 3 minute manic run of your favourite <insert colour here> bike park trail, then stretch that into a 24km loop with several hundred metres of elevation for climbs and see how long you last before your arms and legs want to fall off. For that reason, trail centres are viewed as a bit more sedate when the features you ride may be just as demanding - they're just more spread-out. Stray off-piste and you will have a reasonable chance at finding some squeaky-bum stuff to ride that can stand up to bike park offerings, minus the convenience of an uplift service that is not self-powered.

mobfromcork

Morning folks, was thinking of heading for the Slieve Blooms over the weekend. For those that have done the Kinnity side trails, are they suitable for an enthusiastic 8 year old? She's done the green loop in the Ballyhouras and the bottom 3-4 loops in Ballinastoe a few times without difficulty and has a reasonably decent bike.

drunkmonkey

Is there a map of that trail, does it loop back to the castle if you start from there.

ravydavygravy

Mobfromcork - yeah, no issues. Mine just moaned on the climb up, but it's not a bad climb - 300m over 5km on the blue loop

Drunkmonkey - yes, you can loop back to the castle. There's a map on the Coillte site.

GiantRosa

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Is there a map of that trail, does it loop back to the castle if you start from there.

There's a Garmin link on the thread, some pages back.

mobfromcork

Really enjoyed the loop from Kinnity today. Left homeway too late - didn't arrive until 3pm so a bit under pressure with my 8 year old who needed a bit of encouragement to peddle up. I wasn't sure of of how long it would actually take so had to push her a bit on the ascent. She had an absolute ball on the way down though. She had a bad enough spill the last time she was out so was a bit hesitant at the start but was really getting into it on the second long descent. I was taking it very handy tipping along with her but the few times I ramped it up a bit I found myself picking up a decent bit of speed. I'm not as experienced as many who are posting here but I found the flow here better than the other similar trails I've done for the most part.

drunkmonkey

Did you do the blue or red trail, is it as simple as cycling off to the right from the castle car park and follow what ever colour arrows you want. I don't have a Garmin or anything.

iwillhtfu

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Did you do the blue or red trail, is it as simple as cycling off to the right from the castle car park and follow what ever colour arrows you want. I don't have a Garmin or anything.

There's only a blue trail from kinnity castle and it's sign posted the whole loop, near impossible to get lost.

The red trails are on the mountrath side it would be a fair cycle between them I think.

drunkmonkey

Ah right it was whatever way I looked at the map I thought the red started in kinnity. I might give it a blast during the week.

mobfromcork

I did the blue one. I think the red one starts from a different spot on the Laois side. We parked outside the school in the village and cycled up to the GAA club, around to the back of the castle and up. The signs are easy enough to follow but some posts only have the walking symbols on them even though you are on the right trail. It took around 80-90 minutes including walking up a few of the longer drags.

mobfromcork

You could do it a lot quicker than that without a smallie in tow though