Far Right and Far Left not taken off like other Countries

Daithi_115

Compared to other countries, especially those in Europe, far-right and far-left movements haven't really taken off in Ireland. While Far-Left groups are usually like Antifa (which is more anti-Nazi than anti-Fascist) is often a response to Far-Right groups. Far-right groups haven't really gained popularity in Ireland .

Don't get me wrong groups like 'Identity Ireland,' and the 'National Party' have recently formed but they aren't popular and have no seats in government. There isn't any long existing far-right groups.

So why is that, Ireland is a mix of liberal and conservative so it is sort of expected to have these groups form.

IMO, I believe far-right groups haven't formed because Ireland has always been accepting of foreigners and people of other religions, eg. Jews in Ireland received way less persecution throughout history compared to the rest of Europe. As for Far-Left, there isn't any Far-Right groups for them to counter and Irish people don't like people telling them what to do/believe (this could be the same with Far-Right).

I could be wrong so thoughts and opinions on why either haven't gained popularity?

Please be civil in the comments we all have an opinion/belief

suicide_circus

the national motto is "ah sure it's grand" - very apathetic

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

freshpopcorn

People simply don't care enough I find!

thebull85

Im alright Jack.

Strumms

They haven’t gained much popularity here as historically we are an open hearted, minded, well educated, well travelled nation / society who by and large respect and can live side by side with and stand hand and hand with those of differing backgrounds and beliefs to us.

dxhound2005

There were only ever around 2,000 to 3,000 Jews in Ireland. Hardly worth the bother to discriminate against them.

freshpopcorn

I know a lfew and they consider Sinn Fein far left.

s7ryf3925pivug

Because we’re the blacks of Europe. Try a little tenderness.

Gimme A Pound

jacksie66 wrote: »

Pretty sure if we had a massive influx of illegal immigrants into Ireland like Italy or Austria we'd be in the same situation.

That's what I think too - a far right movement would gain traction based on numbers of immigrants. Although there are countries in eastern Europe which don't have a high influx of immigrants yet have a pretty staunch right wing ethos.

As for Jewish people in Ireland, while it was nothing like parts of Europe, I'm not sure Ireland was entirely such a welcoming place for them.

TheValeyard

Im happy with this. If find this left v right wing politics very divisive. Last thing this country needs. Nothing wrong with the middle ground approach to listen to all sides and decide the best course of action.

Autochange

Strumms wrote: »

They haven’t gained much popularity here as historically we are an open hearted, minded, well educated, well travelled nation / society who by and large respect and can live side by side with and stand hand and hand with those of differing backgrounds and beliefs to us.

It's because there aren't enough people of different beliefs here from other countries. That's slowly changing though

super_furry

People on this island have seen what comes of extremist politics and the effect the had in both Northern Ireland and the Repubic during the troubles.

As much as it angers some of the After Hours fruit loops, there’s no desire in Irish society for their politics.

We’re also a nation of immigrants, who have historically gone out to see the world and experience different countries and cultures.

gw80

Strumms wrote: »

They haven’t gained much popularity here as historically we are an open hearted, minded, well educated, well travelled nation / society who by and large respect and can live side by side with and stand hand and hand with those of differing backgrounds and beliefs to us.

I think I just got a little bit sick in my mouth.

thebull85

super_furry wrote: »

People on this island have seen what comes of extremist politics and the effect the had in both Northern Ireland and the Repubic during the troubles.

As much as it angers some of the After Hours fruit loops, there’s no desire in Irish society for their politics.

We’re also a nation of immigrants, who have historically gone out to see the world and experience different countries and cultures.

The same could be said about a lot of eastern european countries, many many of them have emigrated and also experienced extremist politics in their countries. But we still see plenty of far right and far left in those countries.

Billy86

It's definitely one of the more positive aspects of Irish culture that we've not got much time for that nonsense, as frustrating as some on AH may find that.

thebull85

If we look at Britain, at what time in history the far right and far left start getting support? And for what reasons did they gain support?

Maybe we havent experienced the things in this country yet that made the far left and far right come into being in other countries.

Either that or we're just the good old Irish who have no time for either.

Billy86

Far right and far left have existed in the UK for almost a century, if not more.

Gimme A Pound

Billy86 wrote: »

It's definitely one of the more positive aspects of Irish culture that we've not got much time for that nonsense, as frustrating as some on AH may find that.

But could that be because the conditions required are largely absent? Since austerity and water charges, the far left has gained much more of a following. Not saying they'll get into government but still, much more of a following. There is also an increase in anti immigration feeling with the formation of such parties. These may just be seeds but given the right conditions they'll grow.

RasTa

The left in Ireland are stupid, same idiots that would be out protesting a property tax etc

Strumms

gw80 wrote: »

I think I just got a little bit sick in my mouth.

Try not to choke, you’d find typing difficult, which for all of us would evidently be a seismic loss :eek:

thebull85

RasTa wrote: »

The left in Ireland are stupid, same idiots that would be out protesting a property tax etc

Or the ones i seen today holed up in a building on North Frederick street, 3 youngwans on the balcony screaming obscenities about the pope and mentioning something about homelesness.

Professional protestors, i wonder what their life would be like if they didnt have some sort of "cause" to be yelling about.

Your Face

I think it might have something to do with the centuries of struggling to rule our own nation.
The far Right or Left are, in practice, oppressive to any opposition.
As a people, we know exactly what that entails.

Yer Da sells Avon

The farm takes up most of the day, and at night I just like a cup of tea. I mightn't be able to devote myself full time to the old racism.

It's always been a great country for the auld casual racism, but we lack the requisite feelings of supremacy over other races for the far right to truly take hold. We can probably thank/blame the Brits for that.

alaimacerc

jacksie66 wrote: »

Pretty sure if we had a massive influx of illegal immigrants into Ireland like Italy or Austria we'd be in the same situation. Aren't a far right party leading the polls in Sweden also?

Illegality is, I suspect, neither here nor there. Lots of anti-immigrant sentiment in the UK, and for obvious reasons very little of the immigration "irregular".

Ireland's seen relatively little immigration of any sort until very recently, and most of what there's been has been from the EU. Is it really a shock that there's no large violent skinhead gangs? Or populist politicians giving out yards about Poles coming over here, being... well, what'd the objectionable stereotype be?
Slightly more Catholic, slightly more socially conservative, slightly more hard-working, and slightly more hard-drinking than the natives?

leonffrench

super_furry wrote:

We’re also a nation of immigrants, who have historically gone out to see the world and experience different countries and cultures.

*emigrants

Billy86

Daisy Incalculable Schwa wrote: »

But could that be because the conditions required are largely absent? Since austerity and water charges, the far left has gained much more of a following. Not saying they'll get into government but still, much more of a following. There is also an increase in anti immigration feeling with the formation of such parties. These may just be seeds but given the right conditions they'll grow.

It's an interesting point on the far left parties. I took a look and in 2011 (Socialist Party, PBP, WAUA, Workers Party) got a total of 60,000 first preference votes give or take a few hundred, and totaled to 2.7% of FPv. By 2016 they had mainly come together under AAA-PBP who gained 84,500 first preference votes while the only others were the Communists (185 first preference) and the Workers Party (3,056), with the three combining for 4.15% of FPv.

As a percentage is it certainly a noticeable rise at about 50% each, but on the back of a few very, very austere years it doesn't present that promising of a future to build upon in my opinion. They seem to have lost quite a bit of steam in the last year or so as the furore of the water charges (which peaked around 2014-16 as I remember it, right in the lead up to the election) has died down somewhat and the economy has stabilised. There was also the minor matter that the more they talked about any kind of fiscal policy the more they exposed themselves as magic money tree chancers.

I suppose another crash like 2008/09 could give them something more to build upon but outside of that I think their roof is pretty low and their growth doesn't really compare to the that seen by far left/far right parties on the continent over the same time period, thankfully.

Billy86

RasTa wrote: »

The left in Ireland are stupid, same idiots that would be out protesting a property tax etc

As someone who is definitely on the left side of the spectrum generally, I couldn't agree any more with this.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Autochange wrote: »

It's because there aren't enough people of different beliefs here from other countries. That's slowly changing though

Ireland has a higher number of immigrants than most east European countries. But maybe fewer refugees than some western countries.

To be fair to Italy the burden of most Mediterranean immigration is falling on them.

Franz Von Peppercorn

leonffrench wrote: »

*emigrants

Eh? In the sense he used it he could have used immigrants or emigrants.

Franz Von Peppercorn

alaimacerc wrote: »

Illegality is, I suspect, neither here nor there. Lots of anti-immigrant sentiment in the UK, and for obvious reasons very little of the immigration "irregular".

Ireland's seen relatively little immigration of any sort until very recently, and most of what there's been has been from the EU. Is it really a shock that there's no large violent skinhead gangs? Or populist politicians giving out yards about Poles coming over here, being... well, what'd the objectionable stereotype be?
Slightly more Catholic, slightly more socially conservative, slightly more hard-working, and slightly more hard-drinking than the natives?

There’s plenty of hostility in the U.K. to EU immigration. That’s the reason for Brexit.

Wibbs

alaimacerc wrote: »

Ireland's seen relatively little immigration of any sort until very recently, and most of what there's been has been from the EU.

I would say this is a large part of it. We've been a pretty homogeneous nation and culture for a very long time. When a slightly different culture came along, in the form of Planters we kicked off on both sides for centuries. And they were only slightly different. I mean you couldn't tell a Protestant from a Catholic at a glance. But outside that and since the foundation of the state we've not had any real sense of "The Other" living among us in any number, so tribalism didn't really have fertile ground to grow on. Take Irish Jews. They have been here for centuries. One of the first Jews in Europe to be elected to local government was in Cork in the 1500's IIRC. Daniel O'Connell included and fought for Jews to get proper rights in Ireland and England. Again they were small in number and even in the height of European pograms against Jews, the only one Ireland had was a damp squib compared to the European examples.

Now I am happy to state my personal belief that much of the promoted notion of "multiculturalism" is a bad idea. And the evidence on the ground bears it out. It's great in small doses, but there comes a tipping point in numbers/percentages and societal problems kick off on the back of it. This has been borne out time and time again and we see it in areas of modern multicultural Europe. Ironically the few historical examples of multiculturalism working has been under - in modern terms - extremely hardline, intolerant, even "right wing" native cultures, that brooked little or no dissension from the accepted loyalties and mores and usually stamped that out violently. EG Rome, China and the early Islamic empire. Other examples where it kinda works are colonies, like the US. But I hardly need to outline the social problems they have.

Looking around Europe, both now and in the past, and indeed our own past, I think it extremely unwise to rush into copying many of their policies. It won't end well.

Daisy Incalculable Schwa

Daisy Incalculable Schwa wrote: »

That's what I think too - a far right movement would gain traction based on numbers of immigrants. Although there are countries in eastern Europe which don't have a high influx of immigrants yet have a pretty staunch right wing ethos.

thebull85 wrote: »

The same could be said about a lot of eastern european countries, many many of them have emigrated and also experienced extremist politics in their countries. But we still see plenty of far right and far left in those countries.

Yes, but eastern European countries have a relatively recent history with a totalitarian system under Russia. They've had many people who would have worked within, and prospered under that system (or their parents did).. and likely regretting that it ended for them.

Zebra3

The Far Right thankfully is in decline in Ireland.

Hate filled bigots locking up women for having children out of wedlock. Torturing them and enslaving them for profit.

This weekend is their last hurrah as they head on in to the dustbin of history....

Gimme A Pound

The far right is in decline in Ireland? It was never really a thing in Ireland but now there seems to be a slightly increased following of it.

The catholic church here - today would indicate it isn't in decline at all, although there is certainly a reduction in its followers. Not sure that that indicates being in decline though. And there are numerous people who aren't bothered with the doctrine but still stay in the church for christenings, communions, certain schools and whatnot.

Best and worst thing about Ireland is that we just don't really give a ****.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

I would say this is a large part of it. We've been a pretty homogeneous nation and culture for a very long time. When a slightly different culture came along, in the form of Planters we kicked off on both sides for centuries. And they were only slightly different. I mean you couldn't tell a Protestant from a Catholic at a glance. But outside that and since the foundation of the state we've not had any real sense of "The Other" living among us in any number, so tribalism didn't really have fertile ground to grow on. Take Irish Jews. They have been here for centuries. One of the first Jews in Europe to be elected to local government was in Cork in the 1500's IIRC. Daniel O'Connell included and fought for Jews to get proper rights in Ireland and England. Again they were small in number and even in the height of European pograms against Jews, the only one Ireland had was a damp squib compared to the European examples.

Now I am happy to state my personal belief that much of the promoted notion of "multiculturalism" is a bad idea. And the evidence on the ground bears it out. It's great in small doses, but there comes a tipping point in numbers/percentages and societal problems kick off on the back of it. This has been borne out time and time again and we see it in areas of modern multicultural Europe. Ironically the few historical examples of multiculturalism working has been under - in modern terms - extremely hardline, intolerant, even "right wing" native cultures, that brooked little or no dissension from the accepted loyalties and mores and usually stamped that out violently. EG Rome, China and the early Islamic empire. Other examples where it kinda works are colonies, like the US. But I hardly need to outline the social problems they have.

Looking around Europe, both now and in the past, and indeed our own past, I think it extremely unwise to rush into copying many of their policies. It won't end well.

While I think the current policies will play a major part in Europe's decline for the next while I dunno about your first point. Planters weren't immigrants taking minimum wage jobs, they were an invasive force taking confiscated lands.

Woke Hogan

Daisy Incalculable Schwa wrote: »

The far right is in decline in Ireland? It was never really a thing in Ireland but now there seems to be a slightly increased following of it.

The catholic church here - today would indicate it isn't in decline at all, although there is certainly a reduction in its followers. Not sure that that indicates being in decline though. And there are numerous people who aren't bothered with the doctrine but still stay in the church for christenings, communions, certain schools and whatnot.

Reduced in numbers but it's not in decline? I have never heard such nonsense in my life.

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote: »

The Far Right thankfully is in decline in Ireland.

To be fair, it's still early days for Ireland. It's not as if Irish people have had to deal with the social/cultural stresses that many other countries have had, and the experience of multiculturalism is also extremely new to Ireland.

I wouldn't put it past a lot of people here to embrace the ethos of many of the more far-right groups if it was packaged in the right terminology. Perhaps under the guise of nationalism, which I have heard quite a few people chatting about in strong 'tones'. It's not as if Irish people don't have their own past hatreds of the Travellers, and immigration could easily bring about similar dislikes depending on how it's handled (or mishandled). The stresses that are arising from welfare, and the economy mixed with immigration could easily push many Irish into those camps.

This weekend is their last hurrah as they head on in to the dustbin of history....

Hysterics. Catholics in this country are in decline but by no means disappearing. You seem to forget that many immigrants are Christians themselves and often more devout than the Irish people of the last few decades. Look at the Catholic Church in other countries where numbers dropped, but have since started growing again due to a change in promotion, and public image.

Taytoland

You only have the third largest party made up of murderers, gangsters, crooks, fraudsters, incompetent politicians. The rose tinted glasses in this thread as if Ireland doesn't have such politics, it has worse.

Gimme A Pound

Woke Hogan wrote: »

Reduced in numbers but it's not in decline? I have never heard such nonsense in my life.

Ah you probably have.

Zebra meant decline as in "on its way out". My point was that while people certainly have turned away from the church in the past 25 years, it still isn't on its way out. I don't practise myself either but I don't think the catholic church has become as unpopular in Ireland as some like to think.

Edgware

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I know a lfew and they consider Sinn Fein far left.

That's funny. I can see the diesel laundered really being in favour of sharing profits with the underprivileged

Edgware

Billy86 wrote: »

It's an interesting point on the far left parties. I took a look and in 2011 (Socialist Party, PBP, WAUA, Workers Party) got a total of 60,000 first preference votes give or take a few hundred, and totaled to 2.7% of FPv. By 2016 they had mainly come together under AAA-PBP who gained 84,500 first preference votes while the only others were the Communists (185 first preference) and the Workers Party (3,056), with the three combining for 4.15% of FPv.

As a percentage is it certainly a noticeable rise at about 50% each, but on the back of a few very, very austere years it doesn't present that promising of a future to build upon in my opinion. They seem to have lost quite a bit of steam in the last year or so as the furore of the water charges (which peaked around 2014-16 as I remember it, right in the lead up to the election) has died down somewhat and the economy has stabilised. There was also the minor matter that the more they talked about any kind of fiscal policy the more they exposed themselves as magic money tree chancers.

I suppose another crash like 2008/09 could give them something more to build upon but outside of that I think their roof is pretty low and their growth doesn't really compare to the that seen by far left/far right parties on the continent over the same time period, thankfully.

So what you are really saying is that the Irish people aren't bring enticed to the Left by the private school educated working class heroes like Kermit Murphy and Posh boy Barrett

Billy86

Edgware wrote: »

So what you are really saying is that the Irish people aren't bring enticed to the Left by the private school educated working class heroes like Kermit Murphy and Posh boy Barrett

More that they're not being enticed by extremes with no real plan or agenda beyond what essentially amounts to soapboxing; the same goes for the other looper Barrett on the other side of the spectrum. Where their representatives come from vs who voted for them doesn't actually seem to play into it much, as their strongest footholds are in the working class areas of west/southwest Dublin.

Edgware

Billy86 wrote: »

More that they're not being enticed by extremes with no real plan or agenda beyond what essentially amounts to soapboxing; the same goes for the other looper Barrett on the other side of the spectrum. Where their representatives come from vs who voted for them doesn't actually seem to play into it much, as their strongest footholds are in the working class areas of west/southwest Dublin.

More so the unemployed class areas of West/southwest Dublin. The working class people from those areas are fed up of the scroungers ripping off the welfare system

Billy86

Edgware wrote: »

More so the unemployed class areas of West/southwest Dublin. The working class people from those areas are fed up of the scroungers ripping off the welfare system

Well yeah that's a fair point, thankfully beyond the "give me everything for nothing" brigade there don't seem to be many all too interested in said tree of magic money.

pumpkin4life

The far right hasn't taken off compared to other countries because most of our immigration has been White Eastern Europe; countries that share a lot in common with us. Also, Irish people like being told what to do and tend to believe whatever is being told, we like to be dominated and take what is told up front. That's why we had a Catholic Church that was so intrusive, not because we're so relaxed, but we hate things and people who stand out. There's a reason we did well in America with the police for example.

This will change though, as people in Blackbriggan and Tyrrelstown will tell you.

The far left has taken off in comparison (and to the same levels as other countries I would argue) since around 2011. This is due to:

Winner effect from gay marriage and abortion referendums.

The education and expansion of the public sector and the media mainly through the liberal arts degrees. We've got a bizarre system now where you have a number of overeducated ideologues in positions of influence.

Biological Leninism. Hire those most undeserving of status into positions of influence and they will submit to the cause like a religious zealot. This is why you will not see the mediachange. What the fùck is Una Mullally going to do when the tide changes? You think she'll get a gig like the Irish Times again?

The increasing leftification of the education system. My younger cousin 16 year old lad is now having consent classes, no to racism classes and Zappone's recent LGBT approved education curriculum is on its way. This of course will not end well.

Finally, the housing crisis is wiping out lads on the younger side. When you're a 30 year old Arts degree lad working as a clerical officer and you and your wan can't are still living with your parents, the answer to all your problems lies in far socialistic policies. There's a massive gap here between 30 and above and 30 and below in terms of leftism. I see this weird trend with some young wans who think and talk like we're fùcking America and everyone lives on the internet. Fùcking hell. Get off the smartphones and all of that.

My prediction is the right will grow a lot slower, and the current government are trying to do a massive push to keep the whole thing going, but when the right start growing, it will be a lot quicker than people can fathom.

The big spanner coming up is March 2019, aka how will we get shafted by Brexit. That will be an in-flexion point no doubt.


Mod-Banned

dxhound2005

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Also, Irish people like being told what to do and tend to believe whatever is being told, we like to be dominated and take what is told up front.

I don't.

Gimme A Pound

Irish people like being told what to do? There is non stop complaining and cynicism about authority here! But if it were the case, surely that's fertile ground for an authoritarian system to flourish in?

FTA69

Taytoland wrote: »

You only have the third largest party made up of murderers, gangsters, crooks, fraudsters, incompetent politicians. The rose tinted glasses in this thread as if Ireland doesn't have such politics, it has worse.

It's gas the way people are stil hysterically shrieking about the danger SF poses to the fabric of the state. I picked up the Sindu last weekend while at home and it still has the same idiots talking the same alarmist sh*t.

Sinn Féin are a run of the mill left-of-social-democrat party these days. They're honestly not planning some mad revolution to install Mary Lou as Commandante in Chief.

Edgware

FTA69 wrote: »

It's gas the way people are stil hysterically shrieking about the danger SF poses to the fabric of the state. I picked up the Sindu last weekend while at home and it still has the same idiots talking the same alarmist sh*t.

Sinn Féin are a run of the mill left-of-social-democrat party these days. They're honestly not planning some mad revolution to install Mary Lou as Commandante in Chief.

The Shinners know how to play the game by now and keep the useful idiots in place