Far Right and Far Left not taken off like other Countries

rossie1977

pumpkin4life wrote: »

The far right hasn't taken off compared to other countries because most of our immigration has been White Eastern Europe; countries that share a lot in common with us. Also, Irish people like being told what to do and tend to believe whatever is being told, we like to be dominated and take what is told up front. That's why we had a Catholic Church that was so intrusive, not because we're so relaxed, but we hate things and people who stand out. There's a reason we did well in America with the police for example.

It's been bubbling under the surface in places like Poland for years, before any immigration took place https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/poland/2017-12-18/rise-polands-far-right

JohnMc1

Edgware wrote: »

That's funny. I can see the diesel laundered really being in favour of sharing profits with the underprivileged

Sinn Fein are not the Nationalist party they try to market themselves as.

FTA69

I mean, if you think that SF's policies are poor and would be bad for the country etc then fair enough. That's anyone's prerogative. But talk about how they're some sort of specifically dangerous threat to the state and are hardened revolutionaries Trojan Horsing their way in is just not the case.

Politically they've shifted into social democrats who have broadly accepted the system and the framework of it, it's a common occurrence for revolutionaries across the world. Look at your man in Brazil or Uruguay.

Ha, you could even look at Labour in Ireland but nobody really wants to talk about that. Especially not the Sindo as half their journalists were associated with the Official IRA at one stage.

JohnMc1

jacksie66 wrote: »

Pretty sure if we had a massive influx of illegal immigrants into Ireland like Italy or Austria we'd be in the same situation. Aren't a far right party leading the polls in Sweden also?

We've been very fortunate to have avoided that for the time being. God willing we still will now with Countries like Italy declaring NGO boats and now Spain were one and done after their massive virtue signal for letting the Aquarius dock. Yes. Conservative parties are leading in the polls at the moment.

There is no Far Right. Its a media invention to insinuate someone who doesn't have their beliefs as a Nazi. They even call Ben Shapiro a Far-Right/Alt-Right [How stupid do you have to be to insinuate that a Jew is a Nazi?]

zapitastas

JohnMc1 wrote: »

We've been very fortunate to have avoided that for the time being. God willing we still will now with Countries like Italy declaring NGO boats and now Spain were one and done after their massive virtue signal for letting the Aquarius dock. Yes. Conservative parties are leading in the polls at the moment.

There is no Far Right. Its a media invention to insinuate someone who doesn't have their beliefs as a Nazi. They even call Ben Shapiro a Far-Right/Alt-Right [How stupid do you have to be to insinuate that a Jew is a Nazi?]

The current Israeli government are so far to the right they risk falling off. You actually have neo Nazi groups of immigrants in Israel from Russia. How they can rationally decide to become an out and out Nazi is bizarre but they exist and are flourishing in the state

ArchXStanton

They've got my vote..and I would have been left leaning most of my life

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQDCHMbtCH4

FTA69

The National Party? Isn't that that little fart Justin Barrett giving highly-rehearsed speeches to empty rooms while he preens like Mussolini?

Also if they're going to need someone who can say two words to a camera without reading off a sheet.

Zebra3

pumpkin4life wrote: »

The far right hasn't taken off compared to other countries because most of our immigration has been White Eastern Europe; countries that share a lot in common with us. Also, Irish people like being told what to do and tend to believe whatever is being told, we like to be dominated and take what is told up front. That's why we had a Catholic Church that was so intrusive, not because we're so relaxed, but we hate things and people who stand out. There's a reason we did well in America with the police for example.

This will change though, as people in Blackbriggan and Tyrrelstown will tell you.

The far left has taken off in comparison (and to the same levels as other countries I would argue) since around 2011. This is due to:

Winner effect from gay marriage and abortion referendums.

The education and expansion of the public sector and the media mainly through the liberal arts degrees. We've got a bizarre system now where you have a number of overeducated ideologues in positions of influence.

Biological Leninism. Hire those most undeserving of status into positions of influence and they will submit to the cause like a religious zealot. This is why you will not see the mediachange. What the fùck is Una Mullally going to do when the tide changes? You think she'll get a gig like the Irish Times again?

The increasing leftification of the education system. My younger cousin 16 year old lad is now having consent classes, no to racism classes and Zappone's recent LGBT approved education curriculum is on its way. This of course will not end well.

Finally, the housing crisis is wiping out lads on the younger side. When you're a 30 year old Arts degree lad working as a clerical officer and you and your wan can't are still living with your parents, the answer to all your problems lies in far socialistic policies. There's a massive gap here between 30 and above and 30 and below in terms of leftism. I see this weird trend with some young wans who think and talk like we're fùcking America and everyone lives on the internet. Fùcking hell. Get off the smartphones and all of that.

My prediction is the right will grow a lot slower, and the current government are trying to do a massive push to keep the whole thing going, but when the right start growing, it will be a lot quicker than people can fathom.

The big spanner coming up is March 2019, aka how will we get shafted by Brexit. That will be an in-flexion point no doubt.

Blackbriggan.

Wow.

Just wow.

Annasopra

Zebra3 wrote: »

The Far Right thankfully is in decline in Ireland.

The religious far right perhaps. The fascist hardline racist/xenophobic hard right is arguably growing

Annasopra

RasTa wrote: »

The left in Ireland are stupid, same idiots that would be out protesting a property tax etc

Well thats true. Biggest joke ever of so called socialists opposing property taxes

Wanderer78

Joeytheparrot wrote:

Well thats true. Biggest joke ever of so called socialists opposing property taxes

We re not the only ones with a defunct political left, it's becoming common around the world, but what do you expect when you continually abandon your base

Annasopra

Wanderer78 wrote: »

We re not the only ones with a defunct political left, it's becoming common around the world, but what do you expect when you continually abandon your base

Was there a base to abandon? Working class voters never really voted traditional left in Ireland like they did across Europe

Wanderer78

Joeytheparrot wrote:

Was there a base to abandon? Working class voters never really voted traditional left in Ireland like they did across Europe

That's a fair point actually, our political landscape has always been a bit all over the shop, I can never truly say I've actually had political representation, and I'm a proud lefty, our political left are a disaster

dav3

Zebra3 wrote: »

Blackbriggan.

Wow.

Just wow.

It's what happens when far-right racists forget they're no longer posting on a far-right racist forum.

Then they wonder why the far-right never got anywhere, and never will get anywhere in Ireland.

Wanderer78

dav3 wrote:

Then they wonder why the far-right never got anywhere, and never will get anywhere in Ireland.

Hope you're right, but strange things can and do occur, so never say never

Autochange

Daisy Incalculable Schwa wrote: »

Irish people like being told what to do? There is non stop complaining and cynicism about authority here! But if it were the case, surely that's fertile ground for an authoritarian system to flourish in?

The poster is correct. Irish people do like to be told what to do. We will complain and mumble about it but ultimately have no backbone as a people.

dav3

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Hope you're right, but strange things can and do occur, so never say never

Never in any of our lifetimes. After that, who knows, we'll all be dead anyway.

It's left up to our imagination after that. Unicorns farting rainbows could be running the country a hundred years from now.

leonffrench

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote:

Eh? In the sense he used it he could have used immigrants or emigrants.

If we were a nation of immigrants then we would be all be immigrants to Ireland. We are not. We are the ones who are immigrants in other countries.

Wanderer78

dav3 wrote:

It's left up to our imagination after that. Unicorns farting rainbows could be running the country a hundred years from now.

Farting rainbows, I'm in!

dxhound2005

Autochange wrote: »

The poster is correct. Irish people do like to be told what to do. We will complain and mumble about it but ultimately have no backbone as a people.

You like being told what to do. You have no backbone.

Autochange

Autochange wrote: »

The poster is correct. Irish people do like to be told what to do. We will complain and mumble about it but ultimately have no backbone as a people.

Times change. The influx of migrants, along with Irish people who have lived abroad but returned since, will change that traditional mindset.

This assumption that nothing will change is dangerous. The Irish population is not the same as it was 20 years ago, and in 10 years time, will be remarkably different again. Walk through my mid-sized hometown in the midlands and you'll see as many, if not more, foreigners as/than Irish people. That's the Ireland of today.

And I don't agree that Irish people like being told what to do. I think Irish people don't like making a fuss. Don't want to be the center of attention and are generally waiting for someone else to step into the limelight, and take over the responsibility for leading, that the rest of us don't want.

Autochange

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You like being told what to do. You have no backbone.

Irish people as a nation do what they are told and allow people in power to walk all over them. Everyone knows it

Autochange

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Times change. The influx of migrants, along with Irish people who have lived abroad but returned since, will change that traditional mindset.

This assumption that nothing will change is dangerous. The Irish population is not the same as it was 20 years ago, and in 10 years time, will be remarkably different again. Walk through my mid-sized hometown in the midlands and you'll see as many, if not more, foreigners as/than Irish people. That's the Ireland of today.

And I don't agree that Irish people like being told what to do. I think Irish people don't like making a fuss. Don't want to be the center of attention and are generally waiting for someone else to step into the limelight, and take over the responsibility for leading, that the rest of us don't want.

So the ethnic population of your town is being replaced or taken over. Nobody says a word. Point proven

Autochange

Autochange wrote: »

So the ethnic population of your town is being replaced or taken over. Nobody says a word. Point proven

Hardly. We live in a political/social environment that crucifies anyone who suggests that immigration is wrong. Boards is full of examples of the intolerance against people who complain about immigration (regardless of their logic). Takes a lot of bravery to stick your head into that cluster**** of accusations in RL.

And TBF in my hometown, most of the migrants are either Africans (who do seek to integrate, and don't cause any problems), and skilled workers from European countries for companies who want staff that the local population can't supply. The migrants we're receiving are not holding themselves apart, or seeking to visually distinguish themselves as being different (extremely few Muslims in my area).

dxhound2005

Deleted User wrote: »

Walk through my mid-sized hometown in the midlands and you'll see as many, if not more, foreigners as/than Irish people. That's the Ireland of today.

How do you recognise a foreigner?

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How do you recognise a foreigner?

You can't see any physical differences between an Irish person and a Croatian, Nigerian, or Russian? (Not to worry, I know you're seeking to make this into a discriminatory comment.... :rolleyes:)

And for my own part, from living abroad, and traveling through many countries, I can usually tell if someone is Irish versus being from another country. Not 100% accurate but I'm usually good at guessing their country of origin)

dxhound2005

I might assume someone is from India, but they could just as easily be Afghan, Pakistani, Bangladeshi or Sri Lankan. Or British.

I would fail when it comes to white Poles, British and Lithuanians when seeing the difference to white Irish. They would likely make up three quarters of the foreigners walking round a midlands town.

Autochange

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hardly. We live in a political/social environment that crucifies anyone who suggests that immigration is wrong. Boards is full of examples of the intolerance against people who complain about immigration (regardless of their logic). Takes a lot of bravery to stick your head into that cluster**** of accusations in RL.

And TBF in my hometown, most of the migrants are either Africans (who do seek to integrate, and don't cause any problems), and skilled workers from European countries for companies who want staff that the local population can't supply. The migrants we're receiving are not holding themselves apart, or seeking to visually distinguish themselves as being different (extremely few Muslims in my area).

To me from reading your post it seems like those who come to work will settle in just fine and just want to live a normal life.
I agree with you there as we have a similar situation in my small town.
What about those who come and don't want to do anything to contribute?
Only want social welfare and handouts. What should be done with them?

Autochange

Autochange wrote: »

To me from reading your post it seems like those who come to work will settle in just fine and just want to live a normal life.
I agree with you there as we have a similar situation in my small town.
What about those who come and don't want to do anything to contribute?
Only want social welfare and handouts. What should be done with them?

Well, that's the thing. I am, perhaps, more "hardline" than most when it comes to immigration and integration. Simply because I don't believe that uncontrolled migration/multiculturalism can work.

I would place every migrant on a work visa dependent on being able to find a work sponsor. Can't get one? Then off you go to somewhere else. Break the terms of your work visa, by engaging in criminal activities, and your visa is revoked with you being expelled. I wouldn't be inclined to give out citizenship/residency except for people who have stayed long term (10-20 years) while fully employed, with a clean slate.

This kind of attitude receives a lot of criticism here on boards, and by those who favor Europe helping out everyone who 'needs' it. Still, my opinion is based on 10+ years living/working abroad, and I've never encountered another system which is as 'open' as the European system to migrants. Supposedly Europe should be "better" than other countries, which I can understand (kinda), but I'd prefer to be more practical about the economic considerations and the social instability that is bound to be generated. Everyone seems to be focused primarily on the short term.

The population of those leaving their home countries (Africa, M.east, Asia) and seeking a place in Europe is going to rise dramatically over the next few decades. If people honestly believe the current situation is bad for the amount of migrants, wait a few years and you'll see much worse. It's time to set in place better controls and a recognition/preference for European migration within Europe's borders, over external migrants.

Not going to happen though. At least, not until things become far worse worldwide, and the issues we already have with the current population of migrants becomes far more volatile.

Autochange

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well, that's the thing. I am, perhaps, more "hardline" than most when it comes to immigration and integration. Simply because I don't believe that uncontrolled migration/multiculturalism can work.

I would place every migrant on a work visa dependent on being able to find a work sponsor. Can't get one? Then off you go to somewhere else. Break the terms of your work visa, by engaging in criminal activities, and your visa is revoked with you being expelled. I wouldn't be inclined to give out citizenship/residency except for people who have stayed long term (10-20 years) while fully employed, with a clean slate.

This kind of attitude receives a lot of criticism here on boards, and by those who favor Europe helping out everyone who 'needs' it. Still, my opinion is based on 10+ years living/working abroad, and I've never encountered another system which is as 'open' as the European system to migrants. Supposedly Europe should be "better" than other countries, which I can understand (kinda), but I'd prefer to be more practical about the economic considerations and the social instability that is bound to be generated. Everyone seems to be focused primarily on the short term.

The population of those leaving their home countries (Africa, M.east, Asia) and seeking a place in Europe is going to rise dramatically over the next few decades. If people honestly believe the current situation is bad for the amount of migrants, wait a few years and you'll see much worse. It's time to set in place better controls and a recognition/preference for European migration within Europe's borders, over external migrants.

Not going to happen though. At least, not until things become far worse worldwide, and the issues we already have with the current population of migrants becomes far more volatile.

I would agree pretty much 100% with everything you have written.
If people don't like that opinion that is there problem.
It's fair and sensible

Jimbob1977

In Ireland, the left wing protest against the types of taxes that European left wing parties propose and favour.

dxhound2005

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

In Ireland, the left wing protest against the types of taxes that European left wing parties propose and favour.

When it comes to money, lots of people join in with them. There was an almighty struggle to introduce bin charges, and reintroduce property tax. And no politician will dare to suggest that the TV licence should be increased after a 10 year freeze. A minister who says that the impending pensions crisis has to be addressed get slaughtered. It's all about the money in the end.

dxhound2005

Bootlegger wrote: »

You actually struggle with this?

Big time. There are lots of quizzes on the internet, asking people to identify nationalities. I got zero out of 22 correct for the one I tried, not great pictures in fairness.

If you can be bothered try a few of them and see how good you are.

Annasopra

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

In Ireland, the left wing protest against the types of taxes that European left wing parties propose and favour.

The Irish far left do this. Not the centre left.

Autochange

Autochange wrote: »

If people don't like that opinion that is there problem.
It's fair and sensible

Well, no, it's everyone's problem, because these are the people with the attitude currently in power. Short term gains in good feelings, over the practical issues that will arise later.

I was recently in a town near Montpelier visiting French friends. (I used to spend time there as a child/teen). Lovely quaint historical town with a very rich French rural outlook. The place is dominated by Muslims now. The population of French were mostly driven out of the town to seek work in the cities leaving just the older people behind... but in the last decade or so, the French government encouraged French people to return to the rural areas. Fine. Not really. The population is seriously skewed in favor of these Muslims from N.Africa and the M.East. No woman walks about unaccompanied, because they're harassed by groups of men. No woman dresses normally (like French people elsewhere would). All the cafes are full of Muslim men, and anyone who walks in, is subject to a visual and verbal examination. Walking down the street you'll find cars slowing down beside you, so that they can check out who you are, and will often follow you for a while.

And from what I hear from other French friends, this is rather common in the South of France. I've been hearing similar stories from Spanish friends in Northern Spain too.

The point is that Europe is changing, and in spite of all the claims by the pro-asylum/pro-immigration groups, it's not changing in a positive way.

So while, Ireland hasn't really experienced these kinds of changes yet, the rest of Europe has. Which does explain some of the increases in support for the Far right. Still, I wouldn't expect Ireland to escape this for long. As the other European countries become more unwelcoming to migrants, they're going to come to countries that are welcoming. i.e Ireland. And repeat the behavior they've committed in other countries.

FTA69

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

The Irish far left do this. Not the centre left.

Nah the centre left are too busy propping up austerity governments that destroy the communities who traditionally voted for them. Meanwhile they’re going balls to the wall on liberal social issues and are stunned when they get gutted at the polls by people paying a fortune in rent and on stagnating wages.

Labour in Ireland are a joke, basically the political wing of the Huffington Post with f*ck all solutions to offer working class people in Ireland bar jumping back into bed with Fine Gael as soon as they have the chance.

The “centre left” in the way you mean it are dead ducks. Good riddance.

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Big time. There are lots of quizzes on the internet, asking people to identify nationalities. I got zero out of 22 correct for the one I tried, not great pictures in fairness.

If you can be bothered try a few of them and see how good you are.

Yes, but that's purely off photos. Physical dimensions like height are important. Mannerisms, fashion, accents all matter. Then there's hearing their pronunciation of English, which tends to hold traces of past accents regardless of how good their English actually is.

alaimacerc

dav3 wrote: »

It's what happens when far-right racists forget they're no longer posting on a far-right racist forum.

Well, I dunno, they are posting on AH.

Some people on boards also seem to forget when they're not posting in AH.

I don't doubt that some also forget they're not just sounding off on the internet when it comes to real life, too. Not to say, when they're voting...

Hector Bellend

We dont go left or right of the parish pump

alaimacerc

JohnMc1 wrote: »

There is no Far Right.

Well, it's clearly an easier commute for some of us, than it is for others.

dxhound2005

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, but that's purely off photos. Physical dimensions like height are important. Mannerisms, fashion, accents all matter. Then there's hearing their pronunciation of English, which tends to hold traces of past accents regardless of how good their English actually is.

Nobody mentioned accents or pronunciations. I often hear passersby talking in East European languages. That is a dead giveaway.

alaimacerc

pumpkin4life wrote: »

The far left has taken off in comparison (and to the same levels as other countries I would argue) since around 2011. This is due to:

Winner effect from gay marriage and abortion referendums.

... and conversely, the middling opinion somehow manages to look a long way to the left, from where some are standing.

alaimacerc

Taytoland wrote: »

You only have the third largest party made up of murderers, gangsters, crooks, fraudsters, incompetent politicians.

Which opinion poll is that statement going by? http://www.thejournal.ie/fine-gael-sinn-fein-fianna-fail-opinion-poll-4024340-May2018/

super_furry

Bootlegger wrote: »

The Swedes used to believe that too.

What have the Swedes had to compare to the Troubles?

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Nobody mentioned accents or pronunciations. I often hear passersby talking in East European languages. That is a dead giveaway.

Wasn't the original question how do I know they're foreigners?

Everything factors into making such a judgment. Simply looking at a photo would likely stump me too.

dxhound2005

Deleted User wrote: »

Wasn't the original question how do I know they're foreigners?

Everything factors into making such a judgment. Simply looking at a photo would likely stump me too.

The statement which I responded to was this:

Walk through my mid-sized hometown in the midlands and you'll see as many, if not more, foreigners as/than Irish people. That's the Ireland of today.

If I saw them, I would honestly fail to pick out white people who are non Irish. If I heard them speak, I would probably know.

alaimacerc

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

There’s plenty of hostility in the U.K. to EU immigration. That’s the reason for Brexit.

The reason, eh?

Obviously, people's motivations to vote Leave were in practice a jumbled-up hot mess. Brussels costing us billions, banning bendy bananas, etc. But the "immigration" narrative was clearly in very large part conflating the issues of EU and non-EU. Most clearly with Farage standing in front of that "OMG, millions of filthy muzzy Turks are coming!" poster. But it was clearly a pretty constant undercurrent.

dxhound2005

Accents are usually only a first generation thing. There are turban wearing Sikhs who speak with broad Glaswegian accents. A Nigerian Irish accent is becoming recognised.

alaimacerc

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There are turban wearing Sikhs who speak with broad Glaswegian accents.

One of them a fairly well-known TV standup!

dxhound2005

I was also thinking of Tony Singh, the chef.