So many races cancelled

Derrydingle

Another race cancelled this morning the leinster championship in dundalk. Called off at the last minute due to no first aid support. I have never seen so many races cancelled this year. And with stage races like connacht and wexford cancelled which a lot of guys booking a place to stay and race that weekend are out of pocket too. It's not a good sign for next year.

magicbastarder

who would usually provide first aid support? just wondering if a lot of that support would have been in the phoenix park today.

daragh_

The weather also played a factor in todays cancellation.

Derrydingle

daragh_ wrote:

The weather also played a factor in todays cancellation.

Do you mean the some marshals not turning up because of the rain?

LCD

I am from Cuchulainn. We got a message Saturday night at 8pm saying Red Cross were reneging on their commitment to provide a certified first aid person. We searched desperately, but of a Saturday night this was not easy. By Sunday morning we knew we wouldn't have medical cover & with great regret made the decision to call it off.
Club is out of pocket over it as the caterers still had to be paid, as their prep had been done on the Saturday.

JimmiesRustled

Bit of a joke really. Racing in Leinster is propped up by a very small amount of clubs. It's always the same lads organising races. Theres little to no thanks for putting it on but god forbid you have a genuine reason for cancelling. Some of the comments elsewhere sayings that it's "disgraceful" that the race was called off. People need to start looking at their own clubs and what they can do to help the road scene.

thekooman

JimmiesRustled wrote: »

Bit of a joke really. Racing in Leinster is propped up by a very small amount of clubs. It's always the same lads organising races. Theres little to no thanks for putting it on but god forbid you have a genuine reason for cancelling. Some of the comments elsewhere sayings that it's "disgraceful" that the race was called off. People need to start looking at their own clubs and what they can do to help the road scene.

here here... well said.
we organised a race this year... 15 turned up for A4 and 45 for the main race. out of pocket by a few hundred quid. We'd have to look into sponsorship for next year to cover prizes but with only 60 turning up who'd sponsor that!
much much bigger clubs are not running races because no one will take them on but lads racing in these clubs expect races to be on every weekend.

Derrydingle

LCD wrote:

I am from Cuchulainn. We got a message Saturday night at 8pm saying Red Cross were reneging on their commitment to provide a certified first aid person. We searched desperately, but of a Saturday night this was not easy. By Sunday morning we knew we wouldn't have medical cover & with great regret made the decision to call it off. Club is out of pocket over it as the caterers still had to be paid, as their prep had been done on the Saturday.

Is the club looking at running it later in the season or is it a no go for this year?

LCD

Derrydingle wrote: »

Is the club looking at running it later in the season or is it a no go for this year?

Unlikely. This weekend have a race in Leinster Saturday & Sunday.
8th/9th is Nationals so you won't get a field.
15th/16th is races in Leinster Saturday & Sunday
22nd/23rd Is a race in Leinster that Sunday

At this stage of the season you are really getting worried about pulling in sufficient numbers to cover costs. Also with CX starting a lot of people who might race are heading to them

CramCycle

LCD wrote: »

I am from Cuchulainn. We got a message Saturday night at 8pm saying Red Cross were reneging on their commitment to provide a certified first aid person. We searched desperately, but of a Saturday night this was not easy. By Sunday morning we knew we wouldn't have medical cover & with great regret made the decision to call it off.
Club is out of pocket over it as the caterers still had to be paid, as their prep had been done on the Saturday.

Its a tough call but you made the right one. I was once at the line and having riders read me the riot act because I wouldn't let the race go ahead as we had no Ambulance. I had lads who should know better, telling me it would be grand, they'd follow around and so on. Without cover there is no insurance, without insurance, the person or club who sends riders off will be the ones up against the wall if something does go wrong. The ambulance did turn up eventually, they had been pulled over to a RTA on the way to us and pulled over to assist until the regular ambulances arrived, which is more than reasonable.

In future I'd recommend sending out a request via twitter, here and facebook for cover as (and maybe you did), there are a number of smaller ambulance providers who would be looking to get in there. They are typically more than Red Cross and others we all use but in a pinch, they have covered us and not for a huge amount more than the regular crowds.
Since this was meant to be the Leinster champs, is there anything in the Leinster coffers to help ye out for the loss on the food prep?

Taxuser1

This might not be popular but the whole running of the Leinster champs seemed like an afterthought particularly if you compare it to the Munster champs which had a July registration on cycling ireland online, race winner jerseys, separate Masters races etc and the route planned from months out. their race was all over social media as well. I can't remember seeing one post on the Leinster's anywhere. How was anyone supposed to know.

It appeared a last minute decision to hold the race by the club, who in fairness might have answered the call from Cycling Leinster when no one else stood up, leaving them to scramble for cover which was, of all the weekends, otherwise engaged. It had been known that the Pope was coming for how long now? How did the powers that be decide that this weekend would be suitable for a Champs race in Leinster.

just all seemed nonsense from the start.

Finnrocco

It was possibly due to the Popes visit, I'd say (but not sure) that all First Aid providers were diverted to cover that.

The track champs were moved from this weekend to last for reasons of logistics, getting around town, hotel rooms etc - never thought of first aid provision but it could have been an issue also.

Organisers cannot put on a race without first aid cover, its just not worth it.

Also agree that there are trojans in our sport organising races on the road and particularly on the track.

Peterx

Slightly off topic but it regularly comes up about prizes and prize money.
It's madness (in my opinion) to commit to fixed amounts of prize money without guaranteed entry numbers.
Prize money could either be scrapped or maintained at a set percentage of entry income.
It's not feasible for clubs to keep running a loss

CramCycle

The prize money is weird and I think a hang up from years ago. Some organisers think without prize money, riders won't come. At A4 and possibly A3, this is simply untrue. It will be one of my proposals at the AGM this year to ban monetary prizes for A4, maybe A3 as well.

RobertFoster

I think most are more interested in how many points they got rather than a prize.

wav1

Provincial champs dates were set at cyc ire agm last november long before pope was an issue.
Agreement for cuchulainn to promote reached last march so it wasn't a last minute thing.medals and champs jerseys all in place.
Just unfortunate set of circumstances at weekend and fyi having talked with them last night champs go ahead sun sept 30th

wav1

CramCycle wrote: »

The prize money is weird and I think a hang up from years ago. Some organisers think without prize money, riders won't come. At A4 and possibly A3, this is simply untrue. It will be one of my proposals at the AGM this year to ban monetary prizes for A4, maybe A3 as well.

When a4 cat was introduced about 2010 regulation was for non monetry prizes but was amended some time later as it was deemed to be unfair etc..we mix and match at our races some money some non money etc..would be nice to have debate at agm to attract people over to ballinasloe.cut off for motions sept 21st

CramCycle

I'll be there, I opened another thread for proposals as I'd be interested in what others are thinking

LCD

Race is scheduled for September 30th

Gekko1

RobertFoster wrote: »

I think most are more interested in how many points they got rather than a prize.

Points before prizes any day. Although a nice piece of crystal or similar is a nice touch & always something a winner will have.

One point I'd like to raise is the issue of Pre Entry registration to races. Firstly, I thought this was now mandatory for all open racing since last year's agm?
The benefit of this is not being realised by clubs running races imo. 1. People pre pay so more likely to turn up. 2. Clubs know how many riders will be there on the day for catering purposes. 3. Clubs can budget prize money depending on number of entrants. 4. And most importantly it leads to safer races with limited fields in each category.

wav1

Gekko1 wrote: »

Points before prizes any day. Although a nice piece of crystal or similar is a nice touch & always something a winner will have.

One point I'd like to raise is the issue of Pre Entry registration to races. Firstly, I thought this was now mandatory for all open racing since last year's agm?
The benefit of this is not being realised by clubs running races imo. 1. People pre pay so more likely to turn up. 2. Clubs know how many riders will be there on the day for catering purposes. 3. Clubs can budget prize money depending on number of entrants. 4. And most importantly it leads to safer races with limited fields in each category.

Pre entry is not mandatory

Gekko1

wav1 wrote: »

Gekko1 wrote: »

Points before prizes any day. Although a nice piece of crystal or similar is a nice touch & always something a winner will have.

One point I'd like to raise is the issue of Pre Entry registration to races. Firstly, I thought this was now mandatory for all open racing since last year's agm?
The benefit of this is not being realised by clubs running races imo. 1. People pre pay so more likely to turn up. 2. Clubs know how many riders will be there on the day for catering purposes. 3. Clubs can budget prize money depending on number of entrants. 4. And most importantly it leads to safer races with limited fields in each category.

Pre entry is not mandatory

wav1 wrote: »

Gekko1 wrote: »

Points before prizes any day. Although a nice piece of crystal or similar is a nice touch & always something a winner will have.

One point I'd like to raise is the issue of Pre Entry registration to races. Firstly, I thought this was now mandatory for all open racing since last year's agm?
The benefit of this is not being realised by clubs running races imo. 1. People pre pay so more likely to turn up. 2. Clubs know how many riders will be there on the day for catering purposes. 3. Clubs can budget prize money depending on number of entrants. 4. And most importantly it leads to safer races with limited fields in each category.

Pre entry is not mandatory

Maybe it should be then? I recall this issue was discussed before the last CI AGM?

RobFowl

Gekko1 wrote: »

Maybe it should be then? I recall this issue was discussed before the last CI AGM?

If you feel it should be mandatory make a submission through CI for the AGM then go to the AGM and argue for it...

Macy0161

Gekko1 wrote: »

Maybe it should be then? I recall this issue was discussed before the last CI AGM?

I thought it was supposed to be for A4?

wav1

Macy0161 wrote: »

I thought it was supposed to be for A4?

Fields are limited..that was passed..but bo mandatory pre entry.as robfowl says only one platform.thats ballinasloe in november

CramCycle

Gekko1 wrote: »

Maybe it should be then? I recall this issue was discussed before the last CI AGM?

I think one main reason against was issues on the site making it untenable. A few races this year tried online only but a few had to say on the day when it didn't work. The other big issue with this was that some organisers were worried that it would put off a lot of last minute racers, many of us, due to family or work, don't know until the day before. Happy enough for it to be left to the organiser. They take the risk so they can make the call, although I can also see the benefits.

wav1

CramCycle wrote: »

I think one main reason against was issues on the site making it untenable. A few races this year tried online only but a few had to say on the day when it didn't work. The other big issue with this was that some organisers were worried that it would put off a lot of last minute racers, many of us, due to family or work, don't know until the day before. Happy enough for it to be left to the organiser. They take the risk so they can make the call, although I can also see the benefits.[/quote
Yes that was the logic.putting off last minuters.
Should be left to the organiser to decide..the cap put on the field sizes were never a headache for any organisers this year.

Beasty

Pre-registration, points for prizes etc are really not matters for the CI AGM (I know these are the sorts of things that usually get raised). There was a push a couple of years ago to get the Road Commission operational again. That's where these decisions should be made and not on the whim of whoever turns up to the AGM in any particular year.

I'm pleased to report the IVCA now takes racing matters into a separate meeting with discussion but non-binding decisions.

On the point of insurance and no ambulance cover, we are now required to file management/safety plans with CI. It may not be mandatory to have such cover, but equally the safety plan should set out the steps being taken to reduce risk in this area (and others). Any club putting on an event that does not follow all material matters included in the plan do leave themselves open to claims from riders or the general public should anything untoward happen.

CramCycle

Beasty wrote: »

Pre-registration, points for prizes etc are really not matters for the CI AGM (I know these are the sorts of things that usually get raised). There was a push a couple of years ago to get the Road Commission operational again. That's where these decisions should be made and not on the whim of whoever turns up to the AGM in any particular year.

But until a road commission comes into effect and has an AGM, then this is the way it will be. Maybe a suggestion of a road AGM to be held annually, on the same day as the AGM but at a separate time. You are 100% correct but until someone actually sets up this AGM for the road, it will not happen.

I'm pleased to report the IVCA now takes racing matters into a separate meeting with discussion but non-binding decisions.

If there is a road AGM, the decisions should be binding for at least a year, otherwise whats the point.

On the point of insurance and no ambulance cover, we are now required to file management/safety plans with CI. It may not be mandatory to have such cover, but equally the safety plan should set out the steps being taken to reduce risk in this area (and others). Any club putting on an event that does not follow all material matters included in the plan do leave themselves open to claims from riders or the general public should anything untoward happen.

I was pretty sure (but could be wrong) that an ambulance (and possibly a separate first aider) is required at all events, except for Corkagh Park and Sundrive (proximity to city centre and presumed quick response times to a call). Am I wrong?

wav1

CramCycle wrote: »

But until a road commission comes into effect and has an AGM, then this is the way it will be. Maybe a suggestion of a road AGM to be held annually, on the same day as the AGM but at a separate time. You are 100% correct but until someone actually sets up this AGM for the road, it will not happen.

If there is a road AGM, the decisions should be binding for at least a year, otherwise whats the point.

I was pretty sure (but could be wrong) that an ambulance (and possibly a separate first aider) is required at all events, except for Corkagh Park and Sundrive (proximity to city centre and presumed quick response times to a call). Am I wrong?

There is a road commission in place that meet regularly and discuss lots inc race cancellations race safety etc..actually working quite well for a change..there is nothing in the regulations saying you have to have an ambulance..medical cover it says and thats very.loose..as it stands r/c have no rights to make changes.they have to bring recomendations to cuc ire agm like everyone else..brought lots last yr..some good some bad.

CramCycle

Do you think said road commission should be given an AGM and take all these points away from the business AGM, much like what the track, women's and other commissions do?

Beasty brings it up each year that its a business AGM but it is where all the big road decisions in regards technical rules get decided with good feedback from the college of commissaries, who give the allowed or not allowed nod before a vote is taken. Unless the road commission have an AGM then surely this part should be left as is.

Or more honestly, is it accepted that if you take out the road motions you'd be hard pressed to get a quorum.

Personally to achieve both goals you'd just have the road AGM as a meeting on the day but separate from the AGM which would all of a sudden take under an hour.