Please help. What to do

OscarMike111

Hi

I recently moved out from a property that I lived for nearly 5 years.
When I notified the landlord that I was moving I asked him about deposit 560 and he told me it was long gone. So out of anger, I decided not to pay for the last 3 weeks that I was staying which would come to 550.

Now that I have gone and left him short he's going around a lot of ppl that I know and telling them that I owe him money and asking my whereabouts.
Also one of the friends told me he is planning to show up where I work.

Can he harras me like that?
I'm willing to pay back whats owed im just not in position to do it right away

Thank you

Cuddlesworth

OscarMike111 wrote: »

Hi

I recently moved out from a property that I lived for nearly 5 years.
When I notified the landlord that I was moving I asked him about deposit 560 and he told me it was long gone. So out of anger, I decided not to pay for the last 3 weeks that I was staying which would come to 550.

Now that I have gone and left him short he's going around a lot of ppl that I know and telling them that I owe him money and asking my whereabouts.
Also one of the friends told me he is planning to show up where I work.

Can he harras me like that?
I'm willing to pay back whats owed im just not in position to do it right away

Thank you

Tell him to piss off. He can take you to the PRTB for 550, but would then have to explain why he had no intention of paying you your deposit.

If he shows up to your work, go to the guard's for intimidation and harassment and get a record of it in Pulse and a police report.

D Trent

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Tell him to piss off. He can take you to the PRTB for 550, but would then have to explain why he had no intention of paying you your deposit.

If he shows up to your work, go to the guard's for intimidation and harassment and get a record of it in Pulse and a police report.

Erm, did you think for a minute that there may be a reason why deposit wasn't returned ?

Cuddlesworth

D Trent wrote: »

Erm, did you think for a minute that there may be a reason why deposit wasn't returned ?

Sure And if that was the case the landlord should have provided the tenant with a itemised list and costings deducted from the deposit. And if the tenant withholds rent, the correct mechanism for recovering lost money is through the PRTB. Not through intimidation and bully tactics.

Fol20

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Sure And if that was the case the landlord should have provided the tenant with a itemised list and costings deducted from the deposit. And if the tenant withholds rent, the correct mechanism for recovering lost money is through the PRTB. Not through intimidation and bully tactics.

Your wording comes across as very aggressive and not right for a situation like this. Your assuming everything without the facts. Normally there is a reason for deposit retention and you assuming the worst without taking an objective view on it. Yes the landlord should have an itemized receipt of everything deducted from the deposit and if the tenant wanted to, he could fight this in RTB if he feels he is getting ripped off. He cannot however fail to pay rent and this is what is starting the issue. The tenant first needs to follow proper procedure which it sounds like he has not done here. This is the main reason why deposits as standard should be 2/3 months of rent along with an actual enforcement order that actually works in getting money out of tenant arrears.

OscarMike111

Fol20 wrote: »

Your wording comes across as very aggressive and not right for a situation like this. Your assuming everything without the facts. Normally there is a reason for deposit retention and you assuming the worst without taking an objective view on it. Yes the landlord should have an itemized receipt of everything deducted from the deposit and if the tenant wanted to, he could fight this in RTB if he feels he is getting ripped off. He cannot however fail to pay rent and this is what is starting the issue. The tenant first needs to follow proper procedure which it sounds like he has not done here. This is the main reason why deposits as standard should be 2/3 months of rent along with an actual enforcement order that actually works in getting money out of tenant arrears.

My landlord did not explain why it was long gone and when he said it I said what you mean long gone u havent carried any of the repairs since i moved in. We kept arguing and i said alright keep the deposit. good luck

OscarMike111

Fol20 wrote: »

Your wording comes across as very aggressive and not right for a situation like this. Your assuming everything without the facts. Normally there is a reason for deposit retention and you assuming the worst without taking an objective view on it. Yes the landlord should have an itemized receipt of everything deducted from the deposit and if the tenant wanted to, he could fight this in RTB if he feels he is getting ripped off. He cannot however fail to pay rent and this is what is starting the issue. The tenant first needs to follow proper procedure which it sounds like he has not done here. This is the main reason why deposits as standard should be 2/3 months of rent along with an actual enforcement order that actually works in getting money out of tenant arrears.

Also is it ok for Landlord to act like that and tell my reletives and friends that I owe him money and planning on to showing up at my workplace?

davo10

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Sure And if that was the case the landlord should have provided the tenant with a itemised list and costings deducted from the deposit. And if the tenant withholds rent, the correct mechanism for recovering lost money is through the PRTB. Not through intimidation and bully tactics.

The itemised list can only me determined after the tenant moves out and the property inspected. The op stopped paying rent and two wrongs don't make a right. The tenant equally has access to the RTB to recover the deposit. The fact is that the op does owe three weeks rent and if the Ll does pursues using whatever means allowed within the law, the op can have no complaint.

OscarMike111

davo10 wrote: »

The itemised list can only me determined after the tenant moves out and the property inspected. The op stopped paying rent and two wrongs don't make a right. The tenant equally has access to the RTB to recover the deposit. The fact is that the op does owe three weeks rent and if the Ll does pursues using whatever means allowed within the law, the op can have no complaint.

So basically he can embarrass me at work and all

DubCount

I think its important to determine if OP was a tenant or a licensee. Sometimes the term "Landlord" is used incorrectly. Did OP have sole occupancy of the property or did the "Landlord" live in the property and did OP just rent a room?

If the OP was a tenant, they can lodge a case with the RTB. If the OP was a licensee, then the RTB will have nothing to do with them, and they will need to take a case to Small Claims Court.

Graces7

OscarMike111 wrote: »

So basically he can embarrass me at work and all

No he cannot legally do so;' report him to the Gardai and call RTB/Threshold immediately please.

OscarMike111

Graces7 wrote: »

No he cannot legally do so;' report him to the Gardai and call RTB/Threshold immediately please.

Will do. Thanks
So scared going to work now and he will be there and embarass me infront of everyone

Cheshire Cat

OscarMike111 wrote: »

So basically he can embarrass me at work and all

No, he can't. The correct way is to lodge the matter with the RTB. But that means a long wait. Taking the law into his own hands isn't on.
Go meet him and talk to him. Be as polite as possible and try to find a solution. Shouldn't be too hard. After all you are both in the wrong!
Probably best to take a witness with you.

Was there any damage to the property or does "long gone" mean that he spent the money?

handlemaster

Graces7 wrote: »

OscarMike111 wrote: »

So basically he can embarrass me at work and all

No he cannot legally do so;' report him to the Gardai and call RTB/Threshold immediately please.

I think the OP owes the rent. It hasnt  been established what was the deposit taken for, the LL most have said. I think the OP is been economical with the truth. In fact the rent cannot be legally witheld in llieu of the fact a deposit was placed.

davo10

OscarMike111 wrote: »

So basically he can embarrass me at work and all

Did you leave a forwarding address when you moved out? Surely you knew that he would contact you. If no forwarding address then your work address is the only correspondence address he has. Obviously he will make contact with you there. He cannot harass you, but if he is determined to recover the rent owed, he may well turn up once to talk to you/deliver a letter. Unfortunately that will be enough to embarrass you.

OscarMike111

handlemaster wrote: »

I think the OP owes the rent. It hasnt  been established what was the deposit taken for, the LL most have said. I think the OP is been economical with the truth. In fact the rent cannot be legally witheld in llieu of the fact a deposit was placed.

Deposit was taken 5 years ago when I moved in and at the time rent was 560 per month. 2 years ago rent has incressed to 800 but deposit top up was never asked so it remained 560. Also last year I had to pay weekly 200 per week - so I left him short by not paying rent for 3 weeks but did tranfer 40 euros to match what deposit is.

OscarMike111

Cheshire Cat wrote: »

No, he can't. The correct way is to lodge the matter with the RTB. But that means a long wait. Taking the law into his own hands isn't on.
Go meet him and talk to him. Be as polite as possible and try to find a solution. Shouldn't be too hard. After all you are both in the wrong!
Probably best to take a witness with you.

Was there any damage to the property or does "long gone" mean that he spent the money?

There was no damage done to the house just damp and cold conditios and landlord didnt show intention to do repairs in all 5 years thats why i moved out as winter is on its way

davo10

OscarMike111 wrote: »

There was no damage done to the house just damp and cold conditios and landlord didnt show intention to do repairs in all 5 years thats why i moved out as winter is on its way

That is still not the way it works. You are supposed to pay rent up to the date you leave at the end of your notice, then the landlord has to give you an itemised list of expenses to be deducted from your deposit. If you dispute those items or their cost, you open a dispute with the RTB

In an RTB dispute, the odds are stacked in your favour, but the day you stopped paying your rent, the odds shifted over to your landlord. An RTB case could go against you now and even by virtue of a dispute being opened, your name is on the RTB site which can be checked by future landlords.

This sounds like there was fault on both sides, if you want it sorted, then discuss it with your LL and come to an agreement.

An Ri rua

Was the tenancy registered with PRTB? Likely not. If not, you can use its facilities, but he can't.
But not paying rent is a breach.

I suggest you talk politely but factually. Sounds like an old school landlord who believes the deposit is 'jam'. Talk clearly, ask why the deposit was not going to be repaid. If hes cynical about the arrangement, then draw a line under that approach and put it to him clearly that as someone not registered with PRTB, both PRTB and Revenue will be AS interested as your coworkers and family will be.
Fairness is a double-edged sword. Be firm and fair.

I'm assuming you've caused no damage.

An Ri rua

davo10 wrote:

In an RTB dispute, the odds are stacked in your favour, but the day you stopped paying your rent, the odds shifted over to your landlord. An RTB case could go against you now and even by virtue of a dispute being opened, your name is on the RTB site which can be checked by future landlords.

Agreed, except a LL can't use PRTB if not already registered. Still correct or has that changed?

martinr5232

OscarMike111 wrote:

Deposit was taken 5 years ago when I moved in and at the time rent was 560 per month. 2 years ago rent has incressed to 800 but deposit top up was never asked so it remained 560. Also last year I had to pay weekly 200 per week - so I left him short by not paying rent for 3 weeks but did tranfer 40 euros to match what deposit is.

So you used your deposit plus fourty euro to cover three weeks rent or am i missing something ??

Then at end of tenancy you left him short again or did you move out last year ??

OscarMike111

martinr5232 wrote: »

So you used your deposit plus fourty euro to cover three weeks rent or am i missing something ??

Then at end of tenancy you left him short again or did you move out last year ??

yes deposit + 40 euro to cover 3 weeks rent.
But he saying your deposit dont exsist anymore so u do owe me 560

Cuddlesworth

davo10 wrote: »

That is still not the way it works. You are supposed to pay rent up to the date you leave at the end of your notice, then the landlord has to give you an itemised list of expenses to be deducted from your deposit. If you dispute those items or their cost, you open a dispute with the RTB

In an RTB dispute, the odds are stacked in your favour, but the day you stopped paying your rent, the odds shifted over to your landlord. An RTB case could go against you now and even by virtue of a dispute being opened, your name is on the RTB site which can be checked by future landlords.

This sounds like there was fault on both sides, if you want it sorted, then discuss it with your LL and come to an agreement.

• He tells the PRTB the landlord informed him ahead of the ending of his tenancy that he had no intention of returning the deposit.
• That the landlord intimidated and harassed him after leaving, including showing up to his workplace, while the amount owed to the landlord was still a zero sum.
• That he ended the tenancy as the rental was no up to standards and was in no fit condition to live in.
• That the landlord never returned his deposit and the amount owed in the business relationship was zero.

It doesn't even matter if the above is true. The landlord will never get that money back as he also never returned the deposit. He would be laughed out of the room with fines to boot if he even tried to start going down the proper channels, like most half-assed landlords in this country.

If you want the landlord to go away, pay him.
If you would like some more money, lodge a PRTB dispute with him when he escalates.

davo10

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

• He tells the PRTB the landlord informed him ahead of the ending of his tenancy that he had no intention of returning the deposit.
• That the landlord intimidated and harassed him after leaving, including showing up to his workplace, while the amount owed to the landlord was still a zero sum.
• That he ended the tenancy as the rental was no up to standards and was in no fit condition to live in.
• That the landlord never returned his deposit and the amount owed in the business relationship was zero.

It doesn't even matter if the above is true. The landlord will never get that money back as he also never returned the deposit. He would be laughed out of the room with fines to boot if he even tried to start going down the proper channels, like most half-assed landlords in this country.

If you want the landlord to go away, pay him.
If you would like some more money, lodge a PRTB dispute with him when he escalates.

Firstly, by stopping paying rent, the op breached the lease and is already on the back foot with the RTB from the off. They recognise non payment to be so serious that it is a valid reason to serve eviction notice on a tenant.

Secondly, the LL may well have spotted issues which were bone fide reasons to withhold a deposit, but he would still have had to give confirmation after the tenant had moved out and a thurough inspectiion of the property carried out.

The amount owed is not a "zero sum", the op is in arrears on his rent, and has confirmed this. You cannot choose to offset your deposit against the last month's rent.

Lastly, if the op has not provided a forwarding address, it is entirely reasonable to contact him at the address which the ll has. Obviously the LL cannot harass nor intimidate, but showing up once to deliver a letter or discuss the arrears hardly qualifies. Unfortunately this may embarrass the op, but it was the ops decision to leave whilst in arrears.

daheff

im pretty sure theres a GDPR breach in here too.... he cant go atound telling people about your business issues with him (whether you owe him rent or not).

By the book you should have paid him rent..... but it doesnt sound like this situation is by the book.. so i understand & sympathise with you.

An Ri rua

davo10 wrote:

The amount owed is not a "zero sum", the op is in arrears on his rent, and has confirmed this. You cannot choose to offset your deposit against the last month's rent.

Agree with everything you say except this.
Its a zero sum game with a nonregistered landlord.

GarIT

daheff wrote: »

im pretty sure theres a GDPR breach in here too....

GDPR only applies to companies.

davo10

An Ri rua wrote: »

Agree with everything you say except this.
Its a zero sum game with a nonregistered landlord.

If the LL wants to take an RTB case, he can simply pay the late registration fee to register the tenancy.

Dial Hard

OscarMike111 wrote: »

Deposit was taken 5 years ago when I moved in and at the time rent was 560 per month. 2 years ago rent has incressed to 800 but deposit top up was never asked so it remained 560. Also last year I had to pay weekly 200 per week - so I left him short by not paying rent for 3 weeks but did tranfer 40 euros to match what deposit is.

Leaving aside the fact that you weren't entitled to withhold rent in lieu of your deposit, it looks like your landlord has been overcharging you since he changed to weekly payments. €800 per month = €9,600 /52 = €184.60 per week. Not 200.

Unfortunately, I think you've exactly zero chance of getting anything back given current relations with your landlord. But if he keeps threatening you tell him he actually owes you €15.39 x however many weeks you overpaid him.

martinr5232

OscarMike111 wrote:

yes deposit + 40 euro to cover 3 weeks rent. But he saying your deposit dont exsist anymore so u do owe me 560

You have already used your deposit to pay your rent arrears from last year so you are in arrears for your last three weeks.

Cuddlesworth

davo10 wrote: »

Firstly, by stopping paying rent, the op breached the lease and is already on the back foot with the RTB from the off. They recognise non payment to be so serious that it is a valid reason to serve eviction notice on a tenant.

This is not the same as non-payment of rent leading to eviction. The landlord will have to prove to the PRTB adjudicator that they are down money. And that is quite hard to do. Its actually quite difficult to claim anything is beyond normal wear and tears besides obvious criminal damage. Everything is weighted ridiculous towards the tenant. And the process has a level of common sense.

If the landlord approaches the PRTB saying he didn't pay me 3 weeks rent and he owes me 560 Euros.
The OP says that he is owed his deposit of 560 Euros which the landlord refused to return well before the end of the tenancy and didn't return after the tenancy.
What is your opinion of what will happen? Its sounds like you think the PRTB will fine the OP, rather then tell the landlord what to swivel on.

davo10 wrote: »

Secondly, the LL may well have spotted issues which were bone fide reasons to withhold a deposit, but he would still have had to give confirmation after the tenant had moved out and a thurough inspectiion of the property carried out.

Sure. In this case the tenant was told your not getting it back before ever ending his tenancy, giving him reason to deduct.

The landlord could go to the PRTB with documented proof of damage in excess of the deposit and could claim the difference. In this case, I really think that is unlikely to ever happen, or for him to win in any regard.

davo10 wrote: »

The amount owed is not a "zero sum", the op is in arrears on his rent, and has confirmed this. You cannot choose to offset your deposit against the last month's rent.

Your not supposed to, but the onus is on the landlord to prove a loss of earnings if they want to recover money.

Money owed by tenant minus deposit owed to tenant.

davo10 wrote: »

Lastly, if the op has not provided a forwarding address, it is entirely reasonable to contact him at the address which the ll has. Obviously the LL cannot harass nor intimidate, but showing up once to deliver a letter or discuss the arrears hardly qualifies. Unfortunately this may embarrass the op, but it was the ops decision to leave whilst in arrears.

There is no requirement for tenants to leave a forwarding address. The landlord can attempt to contact the OP to recover money, but they have to both justify the amount, be civil in their approach, submit a invoice for that amount and then try recover it via the proper channels(PRTB). That has not been the case here.