Is Declan Rice giving up on playing for Ireland?

TheCitizen

Berserker wrote: »

This isn't a new. We've done this for years, as have you. Paul McGrath was eligible to play for us and we approached him (as noted in his book), for example.

Gloves are off now though. we need to be more aggressive about this with you

TheCitizen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

He could have made that choice before he played for Ireland..

Hope he never wears the Green shirt again.

Hope he never wears the White one either

I don't care about the white one but agree he should never play for Ireland again. We should declare that we're finished with him and he can stick his "deliberations".

Minderbinder

We should just not call up foreign born players for friendlies before they have played a competitive game.

I don’t think we can really do anymore than that.

TheCitizen

Berserker wrote: »

Oh give it a break and discuss the topic. We all know that there are political sensitivities around players from NI. If the RoI opted for lads who have never played for any other association, hope that's better, then what would the team look like. I was just looking at your potential XI when I named those players. Leave the politicking out.

Under the terms of the GFA players born in the North are entitled to play for the Republic if they wish. You're the one bringing in the "politicking". You leave it out.

ERG89

If the likes of Jake Livermore has got caps in recent years I'm sure a lot of players are at least thinking they may get at least a call up now as the bar has dropped to make an International football squad.

MD1990

TheCitizen wrote: »

Here we go, someone is going to try to turn this into a dig at O'Neill. This guy has played 3 times at senior level has picked up player of the year awards from the FAI. It's disgusting behaviour to do a u turn now. He is a disgrace and Ireland should be very clear that they are finished with him now.

He has had a change of heart. It happens. Wouldn't call him a disgrace.

It is well known we play horrible football & it is not all O'Neill's fault as it was the same under Trap.

Players need to show more courage on the ball.

TheCitizen

MD1990 wrote: »

He has had a change of heart. It happens. Wouldn't call him a disgrace.

It is well known we play horrible football & it is not all O'Neill's fault as it was the same under Trap.

Players need to show more courage on the ball.

Speak for yourself. I'm calling him a disgrace. With all the comments he has made previously and then appearing 3 times for the senior team, he is a disgrace to turn around and decide he needs to "deliberate" on it. It shouldn't drag on. MON should have come out today and said we're finished with this character.

eigrod

TheCitizen wrote: »

Speak for yourself. I'm calling him a disgrace. With all the comments he has made previously and then appearing 3 times for the senior team, he is a disgrace to turn around and decide he needs to "deliberate" on it. It shouldn't drag on. MON should have come out today and said we're finished with this character.

Ah here. He is a very young man with no clear idea how good he is or is likely to become - he's not even 20 yet. He will have had several people advising him and giving him different advice.

Of course up until now he will have wanted to keep all his options open. Very harsh calling one so young 'a disgrace'.

TheCitizen

eigrod wrote: »

Ah here. He is a very young man with no clear idea how good he is or is likely to become - he's not even 20 yet. He will have had several people advising him and giving him different advice.

Of course up until now he will have wanted to keep all his options open. Very harsh calling one so young 'a disgrace'.

He has played 3 times for the senior team. This is different even to the Grealish debacle, and where did that get Grealish after? Rice is a disgrace. He is damaged goods now. We should be finished with him entirely.

eigrod

eigrod wrote: »

Ah here. He is a very young man with no clear idea how good he is or is likely to become - he's not even 20 yet. He will have had several people advising him and giving him different advice.

Of course up until now he will have wanted to keep all his options open. Very harsh calling one so young 'a disgrace'.

Your national identity, in essence who you are...no one should need to take advice on it. It's ridiculous that players like Grealish look to their agents, or Hogan takes 3 years figuring it out.

It's no crime or anything, but we shouldn't indulge this nonsense either.

TheCitizen

Deleted User wrote: »

Your national identity, in essence who you are...no one should need to take advice on it. It's ridiculous that players like Grealish look to their agents, or Hogan takes 3 years figuring it out.

It's no crime or anything, but we shouldn't indulge this nonsense either.

I agree. It's not the end of the world if he decides to switch, but what's more important is Ireland shouldn't be wasting time on it. MON has said he's giving him time, how much time? So he's going to be asked about this over and over again until this character deliberates and decides. It's distracting for Ireland, it's not worth it. Tell him we're finished with him.

Coillte_Bhoy

Berserker wrote: »

Oh give it a break and discuss the topic. We all know that there are political sensitivities around players from NI. If the RoI opted for lads who have never played for any other association, hope that's better, then what would the team look like. I was just looking at your potential XI when I named those players. Leave the politicking out.

There is no politicking at all. Those lads are Irish and you suggest they shouldnt be considered for the national team?

Guy:Incognito

TheCitizen wrote: »

Speak for yourself. I'm calling him a disgrace. .

You must live your life constantly expecting Michael Winner to appear.

People taking this **** far to seriously. None of us own Ireland or the football team. If he's eligible able then it's up to a player himself and the manager at the time what decisions he makes.

I highly doubt anyone on here is going to give to **** to what some lad on the Internet think when they are making career choices.

Niles Crane

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You must live your life constantly expecting Michael Winner to appear.

People taking this **** far to seriously. None of us own Ireland or the football team. If he's eligible able then it's up to a player himself and the manager at the time what decisions he makes.

I highly doubt anyone on here is going to give to **** to what some lad on the Internet think when they are making career choices.

The national team is supposed to represent the people of this country, there is absolutely nothing wrong with criticising him for fluting around about his allegance.The fans wouldn't have to think twice about which country they would play for is it too much to ask that the players who represent the country have a stong commitment and aren't just settling for playing for Ireland becaus ethey are not good enough for another country.You take away the patritism from international football and it might as well not exist.He probably doiesn't care what the fans think but I would argue that on an issue like this he probably should care as it's highly insulting for Ireland to be sloppy seconds for someone like Declan Rice or any other player. You either want to play for Ireland or you don't there should be no mulling over it to be done.

TheCitizen

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You must live your life constantly expecting Michael Winner to appear.

People taking this **** far to seriously. None of us own Ireland or the football team. If he's eligible able then it's up to a player himself and the manager at the time what decisions he makes.

I highly doubt anyone on here is going to give to **** to what some lad on the Internet think when they are making career choices.

We either pick English born players or we don't. He has been getting games at underage level all these years at the expense of other players and then he switches when someone pulls him aside and tells him it'd be much more financially rewarding for him to play or even potentially play for England. He got picked for the last 3 Ireland games at the expense of other players as well. If you don't think that's important I don't even know why you'd bother to give an opinion on it.

Utopia Parkway

Not sure if he's reliable but I read an FAI international scout say on Twitter that Declan and his Dad want him to play for Ireland but some of the higher ups in West Ham (David Gold, etc) have been in his ear over the past few months to switch to England. England also offering him money to switch.

Would make sense as a few months ago Gold said he thought Pellegrini could get Rice into the England squad seemingly unaware that Rice played for Ireland. Maybe he wasn't unaware at all and knew exactly what he was saying.

eigrod

Niles Crane wrote: »

The national team is supposed to represent the people of this country, there is absolutely nothing wrong with criticising him for fluting around about his allegance.The fans wouldn't have to think twice about which country they would play for is it too much to ask that the players who represent the country have a stong commitment and aren't just settling for playing for Ireland becaus ethey are not good enough for another country.You take away the patritism from international football and it might as well not exist.He probably doiesn't care what the fans think but I would argue that on an issue like this he probably should care as it's highly insulting for Ireland to be sloppy seconds for someone like Declan Rice or any other player. You either want to play for Ireland or you don't there should be no mulling over it to be done.

Re the pieces in bold : Really ? The Republic of Ireland ? We have been the worst exponents of accommodating players because they are not good enough for another country (or countries in some cases). We even accommodated one who may well not even have qualified to play for us.

TheCitizen

eigrod wrote: »

Re the pieces in bold : Really ? The Republic of Ireland ? We have been the worst exponents of accommodating players because they are not good enough for another country (or countries in some cases). We even accommodated one who may well not even have qualified to play for us.

We need to wake up and be more aggressive about this.

Guy:Incognito

Niles Crane wrote: »

The national team is supposed to represent the people of this country, there is absolutely nothing wrong with criticising him for fluting around about his allegance.The fans wouldn't have to think twice about which country they would play for is it too much to ask that the players who represent the country have a stong commitment and aren't just settling for playing for Ireland becaus ethey are not good enough for another country.You take away the patritism from international football and it might as well not exist.He probably doiesn't care what the fans think but I would argue that on an issue like this he probably should care as it's highly insulting for Ireland to be sloppy seconds for someone like Declan Rice or any other player. You either want to play for Ireland or you don't there should be no mulling over it to be done.

Criticising and discussing it is all well and good. But repeatedly using language like disgusting and disgrace is ridiculous . People really need perspective.

TheCitizen

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Criticising and discussing it is all well and good. But repeatedly using language like disgusting and disgrace is ridiculous . People really need perspective.

Tell that to players who were left off teams Rice has been involved with down the years. It is a disgrace.

Pauliedragon

I wonder if this would have been an issue if England were knocked out of the world cup in the group stage? All of a sudden playing for England is attractive again. Not the burden it used to be.

TheCitizen

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I wonder if this would have been an issue if England were knocked out of the world cup in the group stage? All of a sudden playing for England is attractive again. Not the burden it used to be.

Playing for England has always been attractive in terms of money. Even if England aren't playing well it's still financially advantageous for a player to get close to an England call up. There is a premium on England players in the cash rich EPL simply because they might get a call up. Rice and his advisors would have known this before, that's what's annoying about it from an Ireland perspective. I doubt MON would have picked him in the recent friendlies if Rice was being honest about his intentions.

eigrod

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I wonder if this would have been an issue if England were knocked out of the world cup in the group stage? All of a sudden playing for England is attractive again. Not the burden it used to be.

England have a far higher chance of qualification to every tournament than ROI do and history backs that up, irrespective of how bad any England team has been.

The lad had no idea he would be good enough for England senior team until he became a regular at West Ham and grabbed some headlines for that over the last 6 to 12 months.

With competitive games looming, he now has to make a decision, and good luck to him with that, whatever he chooses.

Berserker

TheCitizen wrote: »

Gloves are off now though. we need to be more aggressive about this with you

Aggressive, with what aim? No English born player, who is good enough to play for England, is going to declare for the RoI. You'll continue to get interest from lads who aren't in the picture for an international call up but they'll take a step back once they get a sniff of a place in the England set up. You can't blame them either. Opting for England means you are in with a shot of playing in everyone major tournament.

TheCitizen

Berserker wrote: »

Aggressive, with what aim? No English born player, who is good enough to play for England, is going to declare for the RoI. You'll continue to get interest from lads who aren't in the picture for an international call up but they'll take a step back once they get a sniff of a place in the England set up. You can't blame them either. Opting for England means you are in with a shot of playing in everyone major tournament.

Aggressive as in capping them via bringing them into senior squads and throwing them on at the tail end of competitive games against the likes of Moldova that we're winning comfortably. Tie them to Ireland and tell them that's the policy in advance. If they don't like it, don't pick them at all.

Berserker

TheCitizen wrote: »

Aggressive as in capping them via bringing them into senior squads and throwing them on at the tail end of competitive games against the likes of Moldova that we're winning comfortably. Tie them to Ireland and tell them that's the policy in advance. If they don't like it, don't pick them at all.

I think that's exactly what you should do, to be honest. It'll put an awful lot of this stuff to bed very quickly. Put them on with a few mins to go in games, as I said earlier in the thread.

TheCitizen

Berserker wrote: »

I think that's exactly what you should do, to be honest. It'll put an awful lot of this stuff to bed very quickly. Put them on with a few mins to go in games, as I said earlier in the thread.

Well hopefully the FAI and whoever manages Ireland in the future will start doing that. The English FA have become much more aggressive on their part on this issue. This "what can we do about it if a player changes his mind" excuse isn't good enough. It's damaging to Ireland and it's unfair on players who are left off teams to accommodate these English born players who change their mind when they hear about the potential financial benefits for them to switch.

In every qualifying competition there's usually a rag team like Gibraltor. Strategically identify games v the likes of them to bring in these English born players on the fringe of the squad and when we go 2 or 3 up cap them in the last couple of minutes of these games.

If they never play for Ireland again it doesn't matter. Put a stop this crap that Rice is pulling.

OldMrBrennan83

Is it O'Neill pandering to this lad anyway? You'd imagine he's following what he's been told to say by the FAI.

pjohnson

Berserker wrote: »

I think that's exactly what you should do, to be honest. It'll put an awful lot of this stuff to bed very quickly. Put them on with a few mins to go in games, as I said earlier in the thread.

Ah yeah can see that going well. Looking for a goal/tryna see out a game but have to chuck in a teenager instead :pac:

Zico !

Hes finished with the fans now -complete gowl hope his career nose dives

OldMrBrennan83

Zico ! wrote: »

Hes finished with the fans now -complete gowl hope his career nose dives

Yep. I wish him the same as any other player wearing an England shirt, complete and utter failure. Whether he could have played for us or not is irrelevant.

Very disappointed in the FAI for being lambs in all this though.

Zico !

Good interview from O Neill -probably the only good interview hes done with us since he got the job the odd ball-I presume TOD was awol

TheCitizen

pjohnson wrote: »

Ah yeah can see that going well. Looking for a goal/tryna see out a game but have to chuck in a teenager instead :pac:

Obviously you wouldn’t do it in a tight game. But if you’re 3-0 up v Gibraltar with two minutes left in the game of course why not. Throw them on explicitly for the purpose of tying them to Ireland. Be brazen and aggressive about it. The English are being increasingly aggressive about it and are laughing at us.

TheCitizen

Patww79 wrote: »

Is it O'Neill pandering to this lad anyway? You'd imagine he's following what he's been told to say by the FAI.

O’Neill is compromised with this Rice character. He’s been picking him and wants to keep picking him. In my view he and the FAI need to become more aggressive about this stuff in the future. I think he should still tell Rice to fck off but the damage is done with him.

In future Ireland should deliberately cap English born players in competitive games that Ireland are ahead in and tell them in advance that that is the policy. If the player complains and says they want to keep their options open tell them to fck off and stop wasting our time.

OldMrBrennan83

TheCitizen wrote: »

O’Neill is compromised with this Rice character. He’s been picking him and wants to keep picking him. In my view he and the FAI need to become more aggressive about this stuff in the future. I think he should still tell Rice to fck off but the damage is done with him.

In future Ireland should deliberately cap English born players in competitive games that Ireland are ahead in and tell them in advance that that is the policy. If the player complains and says they want to keep their options open tell them to fck off and stop wasting our time.

I'd say he can't tell him to feck off unless his employers allow it.

TheCitizen

Patww79 wrote: »

I'd say he can't tell him to feck off unless his employers allow it.

Well him and the FAI both need to put a stop to this crap. They’re sitting there as if they have no control over the situation, they can control it. cap them in the last seconds of competitive games v bottom feeder countries and tell them to fck off if they don’t agree to that policy.

Arghus

People need to get off their moral high horses about this.

He's a young man and we don't know what kind of advice he's been getting. It's a big decision and it could have a huge bearing on his career. Did you have it all figured out at 19?

People talking about "cutting him loose" and all that nonsense, that would be stupid. He could declare for England, never get within an asses roar of a squad and you never know down the line Ireland and him could eventually form a mutual beneficial relationship.

Let's not be zealots about this: there's a history of English born players declaring for Ireland who simply weren't good enough to play for England - D'ya think they all grew up singing The Wolfe Tones? Get real!

The wisest choice is to leave the door open and let the chips fall where they may. Ireland, given the paucity of talent coming through, can ill afford to be turning their nose up at potential future internationals because of hurt feelings.

pjohnson

TheCitizen wrote: »

Well him and the FAI both need to put a stop to this crap. They’re sitting there as if they have no control over the situation, they can control it. cap them in the last seconds of competitive games v bottom feeder countries and tell them to fck off if they don’t agree to that policy.

Yeah what with the regular amount of competitive international games v bottom feeders :pac:


Even forcing them to play for Ireland doesn't stop them doing a Stephen Ireland which is no less embarrasing.

Niles Crane

Arghus wrote: »

People need to get off their moral high horses about this.

He's a young man and we don't know what kind of advice he's been getting. It's a big decision and it could have a huge bearing on his career. Did you have it all figured out at 19?

People talking about "cutting him loose" and all that nonsense, that would be stupid. He could declare for England, never get within an asses roar of a squad and you never know down the line Ireland and him could eventually form a mutual beneficial relationship.

Let's not be zealots about this: there's a history of English born players declaring for Ireland who simply weren't good enough to play for England - D'ya think they all grew up singing The Wolfe Tones? Get real!

The wisest choice is to leave the door open and let the chips fall where they may. Ireland, given the paucity of talent coming through, can ill afford to be turning their nose up at potential future internationals because of hurt feelings.

If he's not 100% behind playing for Ireland he should never be considered again, anyone else who wasn't 100% behind the idea of playing for Ireland shouldn't have been selected either.

I've never like the fact we had so may players born outside Ireland playing for us, some of them were perfectly acceptable as you felt they were genuinely desperate to play for Ireland but there have been a lot of nobodies who din;t give a toss about Ireland that we handed caps to over the years and we shouldn't have.

19 is plenty old enough to make this decision , if players can decided to be professional footballers at that age they are old enough to decided what county they play for this excuse of him only being a young lad is bull.People of 19 make much bigger decision than this every day.

TheCitizen

pjohnson wrote: »

Yeah what with the regular amount of competitive international games v bottom feeders :pac:


Even forcing them to play for Ireland doesn't stop them doing a Stephen Ireland which is no less embarrasing.

Yeah there’s usually a Gibraltar type team at the bottom of the group that can be used to cap players in the closing minutes of games we are ahead in by two goals or more. We have control over that, we don’t have control over Stephen Ireland type debacles and he’s irrelevant to this issue.

TheCitizen

Arghus wrote: »

People need to get off their moral high horses about this.

He's a young man and we don't know what kind of advice he's been getting. It's a big decision and it could have a huge bearing on his career. Did you have it all figured out at 19?

People talking about "cutting him loose" and all that nonsense, that would be stupid. He could declare for England, never get within an asses roar of a squad and you never know down the line Ireland and him could eventually form a mutual beneficial relationship.

Let's not be zealots about this: there's a history of English born players declaring for Ireland who simply weren't good enough to play for England - D'ya think they all grew up singing The Wolfe Tones? Get real!

The wisest choice is to leave the door open and let the chips fall where they may. Ireland, given the paucity of talent coming through, can ill afford to be turning their nose up at potential future internationals because of hurt feelings.

It’s not about turning their nose up at English born players. It’s about being more aggressive about tying them to Ireland so that they don’t later jump ship. These are players we are helping to develop and they’re taking places in teams ahead of other players and then they fck off hoping to play for England because it benefits them financially. It needs to be stopped.

pjohnson

TheCitizen wrote: »

It’s not about turning their nose up at English born players. It’s about being more aggressive about tying them to Ireland so that they don’t later jump ship. These are players we are helping to develop and they’re taking places in teams ahead of other players and then they fck off hoping to play for England because it benefits them financially. It needs to be stopped.

How does it help them financially?

Arghus

pjohnson wrote: »

How does it help them financially?

England Internationals move for higher fees, get paid more money than they would otherwise, can earn a lot more in terms of sponsorship and deals.

TheCitizen

Kevin Kilbane is on this now on Newstalk. He is fuming about it and he’s 100 percent correct. Anybody involved with Irish football including supporters should be disgusted with Rice.

Mr.Nice Guy

Time to move on from Rice. He was given great opportunities - which he acknowledged himself he hadn't got from England - the players and management all welcomed him into the fold with eagerness and warmth, as did the fans who gave him a great reception to boot. And he's chosen to walk away from all that.

It cheapens the jersey to go grovelling after players whose hearts aren't in it. Only way I would open the door to him now is if he does an immediate U-turn, apologises and says he was badly advised, and asks to rejoin the fold. As that seems unlikely, time to look to those who dream of playing in green.

LeBash

It's a pity as he was a good player but maybe 1 England cap would mean more to him than 100 Irish caps and that's fair enough.

Some will agree and some won't but the tripe we play wouldn't encourage any player who had any talent to play for us.

I do think the likes of Rice and Grealish should have been capped in competitive matches long before any question came up. They are/we're both well ahead of what we currently have. Grealish was a perfect replacement for Wes and Rice is definitely going to be there or there abouts at Centre half and/or in the midfield.

Seriously short sighted stuff from the management.

At the end of it all it will come down to money, both will get significant pay rises or a big move with English caps. Not the case with Irish caps and I believe it has a big part to play in it.

TheCitizen

LeBash wrote: »

It's a pity as he was a good player but maybe 1 England cap would mean more to him than 100 Irish caps and that's fair enough.

Some will agree and some won't but the tripe we play wouldn't encourage any player who had any talent to play for us.

I do think the likes of Rice and Grealish should have been capped in competitive matches long before any question came up. They are/we're both well ahead of what we currently have. Grealish was a perfect replacement for Wes and Rice is definitely going to be there or there abouts at Centre half and/or in the midfield.

Seriously short sighted stuff from the management.

At the end of it all it will come down to money, both will get significant pay rises or a big move with English caps. Not the case with Irish caps and I believe it has a big part to play in it.

Rice has played 3 times for Ireland at senior level already. This is only about money and has nothing to do with our style of play or anything else.

Kermit.de.frog

LeBash wrote: »

Some will agree and some won't but the tripe we play wouldn't encourage any player who had any talent to play for us.

This.

We don't want to play football and if you are a midfielder with talent you are hardly going to be excited at the prospect of having the ball hoofed over your head over and over again.

Our style is such a turnoff because it does not allow players use the ball.

That's not the primary reason for this though!

TheCitizen

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This.

We don't want to play football and if you are a midfielder with talent you are hardly going to be excited at the prospect of having the ball hoofed over your head over and over again.

Our style is such a turnoff because it does not allow players use the ball.

That's not the primary reason for this though!

Nonsense. Why has he played 3 games under the senior set up so? He has changed his mind because his agent and others have convinced him it's better for him financially to switch. That's it, it has nothing to do with anything else. People who buy into lies about him having to think it over and being conflicted etc. are gullible fools. it's down to money, nothing else. It is further insult to suggest otherwise.

Arghus

TheCitizen wrote: »

Nonsense. Why has he played 3 games under the senior set up so? He has changed his mind because his agent and others have convinced him it's better for him financially to switch. That's it, it has nothing to do with anything else. People who buy into lies about him having to think it over and being conflicted etc. are gullible fools. it's down to money, nothing else. It is further insult to suggest otherwise.

You can be conflicted and still be mainly thinking about the money. Usually the procurement of money is a source of conflict in most people's lives.