Is Declan Rice giving up on playing for Ireland?

D14Rugby

Arghus wrote: »

England Internationals move for higher fees, get paid more money than they would otherwise, can earn a lot more in terms of sponsorship and deals.

No England players don't, homegrown players do

Tom Mann Centuria

Yeah, I'd be of the opinion it's all about the money. Being an England international is going to get you a better contract than being an Ireland international. That's only my guess of course, but worrying about how an Ireland manager, who must only have a couple of years left, chooses to play, is really of no concern to him, only just starting out, with 10 years plus of internationals ahead of him.

weldoninhio

Fool me once, shame on you (Grealish)

Fool me twice, shame on me (Kelly)

Fool me three times, ............. (Rice)

Could O’Neill/Keane have anything to do with all these players stringing us along then ditching us??

TheCitizen

weldoninhio wrote: »

Fool me once, shame on you (Grealish)

Fool me twice, shame on me (Kelly)

Fool me three times, ............. (Rice)

Could O’Neill/Keane have anything to do with all these players stringing us along then ditching us??

He has played 3 times for O'Neill. Money is behind this, nothing else.

You'll always get a dig in at O'Neill no matter what.

Banjaxed82

weldoninhio wrote: »

Fool me once, shame on you (Grealish)

Fool me twice, shame on me (Kelly)

Fool me three times, ............. (Rice)

Could O’Neill/Keane have anything to do with all these players stringing us along then ditching us??

It's more to do with the fact that England have the worst pool of players....ever. Unfortunately the downside is more and more players fancy their chances.

If Jordan Henderson can get a game for England, you can be assured Andy Townsend would definitely have been in with a shout these days.

Go Back 10-15 years ago - Rice, Grealish and Kelly are capped competitively for us no problem at all.

In conclusion: homegrown talent is essential going forward or we are fuuucked.

Beefy78

TheCitizen wrote: »

Rice has played 3 times for Ireland at senior level already. This is only about money and has nothing to do with our style of play or anything else.

Please. He's English. He didn't have a sniff at the England squad previously, now he's obviously been told that he does so of course he'll be rethinking. Who wouldn't want to play for their country?

Maybe money is the reason for his change of heart. Or maybe he saw England make a World Cup semi final last month and decided he fancied a bit of that.

It's pretty disgraceful that people are advocating calling children up, giving them a minute on the pitch in a senior qualification match and then locking them in. Ffs, is this what Irish football has come to?

TheCitizen

Beefy78 wrote: »

Please. He's English. He didn't have a sniff at the England squad previously, now he's obviously been told that he does so of course he'll be rethinking. Who wouldn't want to play for their country?

It's pretty disgraceful that people are advocating calling children up, giving them a minute on the pitch in a senior qualification match and then locking them in. Ffs, is this what Irish football has come to?

LOL. Who said we should call up children and give them a minute on the senior team to lock them to Ireland? If he’s English and wants to play for England fine. What’s he wasting our time for?

Niles Crane

Beefy78 wrote: »

Please. He's English. He didn't have a sniff at the England squad previously, now he's obviously been told that he does so of course he'll be rethinking. Who wouldn't want to play for their country?

Maybe money is the reason for his change of heart. Or maybe he saw England make a World Cup semi final last month and decided he fancied a bit of that.

It's pretty disgraceful that people are advocating calling children up, giving them a minute on the pitch in a senior qualification match and then locking them in. Ffs, is this what Irish football has come to?

If he is so English then why did he decide to play for Ireland at senior level.

I don't give a toss about him either way and as far as I'm concerned I hope he never plays for Ireland again but I see no issue with getting players to commit to playing for Ireland early, it's what FIFA should be doing anyways if international football was organised properly you wouldn't be allowed to change allegiance after you turn 18. FIFA should have sorted all this dual nationality issues out a long time ago by having every player once they turn pro have to sign an official document with FIFA specifying what country they wish to play for.

Niles Crane

D14Rugby wrote: »

No England players don't, homegrown players do

England players have much greater earning opportunities from endorsements,media than a player of similar ability from Ireland would.

60 million people in your home market vs 5 million people in your home market.

vicwatson

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Not sure if he's reliable but I read an FAI international scout say on Twitter that Declan and his Dad want him to play for Ireland but some of the higher ups in West Ham (David Gold, etc) have been in his ear over the past few months to switch to England. England also offering him money to switch.

Would make sense as a few months ago Gold said he thought Pellegrini could get Rice into the England squad seemingly unaware that Rice played for Ireland. Maybe he wasn't unaware at all and knew exactly what he was saying.

Gold is full of ****e, why isn’t he giving him a better contract at United?

Irons

D14Rugby

Niles Crane wrote: »

England players have much greater earning opportunities from endorsements,media than a player of similar ability from Ireland would.

60 million people in your home market vs 5 million people in your home market.

So why are the players with the highest wages, sponsorships and shirt sales in the EPL not English?

Niles Crane

D14Rugby wrote: »

So why are the players with the highest wages, sponsorships and shirt sales in the EPL not English?

Because England don't have many top quality players.The best players in the EPL are foreign.

Do you honestly think Seamus Coleman would earn as much money from his SPAR ad on Irish TV as an England player would for doing something similar in the UK.

Arghus

D14Rugby wrote: »

So why are the players with the highest wages, sponsorships and shirt sales in the EPL not English?

Well, because, currently, the best players in the EPL aren't English, but, in the case of an English player, being an international in no way hurts your pocket and goes a long way towards lining it even further than it would have been anyway.

Look at Harry Maguire. Now, if he was just a non international centre back playing for Leicester, he's still be financially doing pretty well. But because he's Harry Maguire - England's heroically headed centre back - his profile is far higher than otherwise: he's constantly linked with big money moves, which, even if they don't happen, allow him to negotiate better wages, there's promotional opportunities outside of football... there's a lot more money being thrown at him.

Playing for England doesn't mean that you'll be the best paid around, but it means that your earning power goes way up. That's a fact.

OldMrBrennan83

D14Rugby wrote: »

So why are the players with the highest wages, sponsorships and shirt sales in the EPL not English?

Because they're not very good.

Zico !

As said earlier Kilbane was spot on with this in an epic rant alongside the 2 no brainers on the show with him

Highlights were - hes after depriving some Irish kid who wants to play for us of 3 caps also rice changed agent during the summer and a lot of the hacks were speculating this was going to happen with that move .Kilbane thinks its down to money also

doncarlos

The FAI have finally done something about our over reliance on foreign clubs to develop our players. With national underage sides from u15 to u19 now in place with u13s starting next season. Hopefully we start reaping the benefits over the next ten years with clubs improving their academies much the way Shamrock Rovers have

However until that happens we will have to keep hoping we unearth english born players and they don't become good enough that England turn their heads.

This whole mantra about English players making more money than Irish players...I really can't imagine that Robbie Keane, Damien Duff and John O'Shea made significantly less than English players at that level.

Liam O

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This whole mantra about English players making more money than Irish players...I really can't imagine that Robbie Keane, Damien Duff and John O'Shea made significantly less than English players at that level.

If Duff was English he'd certainly have been paid more. Unsure if Keane or JOS would have ever played for them really tbh. Keane maybe would have gotten 10 caps.

Dempsey

I think the FAI need to review their policies around players like Declan Rice.

Propping up underage talent to be cherry picked by other countries is embarrassing.

They wont do this of course because they are unwilling to invest in developing playing in ireland and are happy with the current dependance on the english system.

hots

TheCitizen wrote: »

Nonsense. Why has he played 3 games under the senior set up so? He has changed his mind because his agent and others have convinced him it's better for him financially to switch. That's it, it has nothing to do with anything else. People who buy into lies about him having to think it over and being conflicted etc. are gullible fools. it's down to money, nothing else. It is further insult to suggest otherwise.

How do you know it's about money and not just wanting to be part of a better team?

Liam O

Liam O wrote: »

If Duff was English he'd certainly have been paid more. Unsure if Keane or JOS would have ever played for them really tbh. Keane maybe would have gotten 10 caps.

Is there any analysis of this? Like a study or stats? Have players who had the option to play for both, like Kilbane, spoken of how much less they were paid or received in endorsements?

TheCitizen

hots wrote: »

How do you know it's about money and not just wanting to be part of a better team?

Kevin Kilbane said he changed his agent recently. Gold and others at West Ham want him playing for England cos it adds to his value. He’s had his head turned and he saw the dollar signs. It’s only about money. His value goes up with the potential of being in the England squad he doesn’t even have to actually make the England squad but playing for Ireland v Wales would put an end to that. This is about money. Money for him, money for his agent, money for his club.

Kilbane also talked about pressure being put on him all the way along by different people to not represent Ireland he said there was a certain pressure he had to resist but it was easier for him to resist because he actually wanted to play for Ireland. Rice said he wanted to play for Ireland several times, but he didn’t really, he was lying through his teeth about it and he took the carrot when it was dangled in front of him.

Guy:Incognito

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is there any analysis of this? Like a study or stats? Have players who had the option to play for both, like Kilbane, spoken of how much less they were paid or received in endorsements?

Being eligible to play for both is not the same as having the option to play for both.




As for rice thinking about money. Of ****ing course that's what he should be thinking of, just like the rest of us do when thinking about work. Its his life and his career. He does what's best for him, not a bunch of lads following Ireland.

Laois_Man

TheCitizen wrote: »

Kilbane also talked about pressure being put on him all the way along by different people to not represent Ireland he said there was a certain pressure he had to resist but it was easier for him to resist because he actually wanted to play for Ireland.

And also because he was never going to get within an asses roar of the England squad!

Everyone says Rice won't either. But if Eric Dier can get into that squad and actually play in the World Cup, Declan Rice certainly can.

hots

TheCitizen wrote: »

Kevin Kilbane said he changed his agent recently. Gold and others at West Ham want him playing for England cos it adds to his value. He’s had his head turned and he saw the dollar signs. It’s only about money. His value goes up with the potential of being in the England squad he doesn’t even have to actually make the England squad but playing for Ireland v Wales would put an end to that. This is about money. Money for him, money for his agent, money for his club.

Kilbane also talked about pressure being put on him all the way along by different people to not represent Ireland he said there was a certain pressure he had to resist but it was easier for him to resist because he actually wanted to play for Ireland. Rice said he wanted to play for Ireland several times, but he didn’t really, he was lying through his teeth about it and he took the carrot when it was dangled in front of him.

Right... so you don't know? Players change agents all of the time. Obviously Gold would want him to play for England over any other country? Maybe Rice like a million other people has split loyalties and needs to think before playing one game that commits him to one national team for the rest of his career?



The money thing is really strange, he has far more chance of making an Irish XI than an English one and getting himself on a bigger stage. He'll make more from a Centra ad than no ads at all if he takes the risk and doesn't make it.

lawred2

hots wrote: »

Right... so you don't know? Players change agents all of the time. Obviously Gold would want him to play for England over any other country? Maybe Rice like a million other people has split loyalties and needs to think before playing one game that commits him to one national team for the rest of his career?



The money thing is really strange, he has far more chance of making an Irish XI than an English one and getting himself on a bigger stage. He'll make more from a Centra ad than no ads at all if he takes the risk and doesn't make it.

There aren't that many decent English centre halves so I wouldn't discount his chances of starting for England

Either way - between this and Grealish - this is another example where the FAI's strategy of trying to benefit from UK youth systems is being shown up for what it is.

Guy:Incognito

hots wrote: »

The money thing is really strange, he has far more chance of making an Irish XI than an English one and getting himself on a bigger stage. He'll make more from a Centra ad than no ads at all if he takes the risk and doesn't make it.

A few grand a week of a bump on one contract would knock any potential central ad campaign out of the water.

TheCitizen

Laois_Man wrote: »

And also because he was never going to get within an asses roar of the England squad!

Everyone says Rice won't either. But if Eric Dier can get into that squad and actually play in the World Cup, Declan Rice certainly can.

He was asked to play for England at underage level and was put under pressure to do so by one of his earlier managers IIRC but resisted. He wanted to play for Ireland and wasn’t going to be swayed like the fraud Declan

lawred2

TheCitizen wrote: »

He was asked to play for England at underage level and was put under pressure to do so by one of his earlier managers IIRC but resisted. He wanted to play for Ireland and wasn’t going to be swayed like the fraud Declan

Young lads can be idealistic

But a few years earning - it's only natural to get a taste for it. I know I would. I'd follow the money.

TheCitizen

hots wrote: »

Right... so you don't know? Players change agents all of the time. Obviously Gold would want him to play for England over any other country? Maybe Rice like a million other people has split loyalties and needs to think before playing one game that commits him to one national team for the rest of his career?



The money thing is really strange, he has far more chance of making an Irish XI than an English one and getting himself on a bigger stage. He'll make more from a Centra ad than no ads at all if he takes the risk and doesn't make it.

It’s about money. He’ll get better deals have better prospects of getting a move to a bigger EPL club if he’s in and around the England than he would with 50 caps for Ireland.

hots

lawred2 wrote: »

There aren't that many decent English centre halves so I wouldn't discount his chances of starting for England

Either way - between this and Grealish - this is another example where the FAI's strategy of trying to benefit from UK youth systems is being shown up for what it is.

Very true, and even in the decent english youth teams I would say centre back is the least exciting spot for prospects.

TheCitizen

lawred2 wrote: »

Young lads can be idealistic

But a few years earning - it's only natural to get a taste for it. I know I would. I'd follow the money.

Fine. He can stop wasting our time so with his deliberations. Also he has taken game time off other players down the years so he can fck off with himself. The FAI need to find ways to stop this from happening go out of our way to cap players competitively make it a policy to do so and cut this crap that Rice is at out.

lawred2

TheCitizen wrote: »

Fine. He can stop wasting our time so with his deliberations. Also he has taken game time off other players down the years so he can fck off with himself. The FAI need to find ways to stop this from happening go out of our way to cap players competitively make it a policy to do so and cut this crap that Rice is at out.

The FAI needs to stop spending money on suits and invest in the national game

TheCitizen

lawred2 wrote: »

The FAI needs to stop spending money on suits and invest in the national game

The FAI need to do a few things doing their best to prevent characters like Rice from doing what he’s at is one of them. Get aggressive about this issue, the English FA already have

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Being eligible to play for both is not the same as having the option to play for both.

As for rice thinking about money. Of ****ing course that's what he should be thinking of, just like the rest of us do when thinking about work. Its his life and his career. He does what's best for him, not a bunch of lads following Ireland.

The one and only issue for you should be money?

Well, we differ.

Plus I still don't see this evidence that players who chose Ireland took a substantial hit in wages and endorsements. As hots observed, playing a lot for Ireland could suit a player, I suspect Robbie Keane's agent could consistently point to his goal rate at international level when negotiating a new contract or move.

hots

TheCitizen wrote: »

It’s about money. He’ll get better deals have better prospects of getting a move to a bigger EPL club if he’s in and around the England than he would with 50 caps for Ireland.

I mean you can keep repeating it without any evidence but you just read like you're bitter and begrudging towards the kid.

TheCitizen

hots wrote: »

I mean you can keep repeating it without any evidence but you just read like you're bitter and begrudging towards the kid.

I am repeating myself at this stage but it’s amazing that there’s always another poster like you that will come along and say maybe it’s not about money maybe he is genuinely conflicted and needs time to deliberate etc. I’m not buying it he can fck off with himself immediately and cut out the deliberations crap.

He can play for who he wants I don’t care, but what I’m pissed off about is this character has been taking game time off players who actually want to play for us for years and I think it’s bad for morale of other players that we’re pandering to him while he makes his mind up after having played 3 times for the senior team. I want rid of him ASAP.

hots

TheCitizen wrote: »

I am repeating myself at this stage but it’s amazing that there’s always another poster like you that will come along and say maybe it’s not about money maybe he is genuinely conflicted and needs time to deliberate etc. I’m not buying it he can fck off with himself immediately and cut out the deliberations crap.

He can play for who he wants I don’t care, but what I’m pissed off about is this character has been taking game time off players who actually want to play for us for years and I think it’s bad for morale of other players that we’re pandering to him while he makes his mind up after having played 3 times for the senior team. I want rid of him ASAP.

Fair enough, it's a reality of the multiple-nationalies (that we get to take plenty of advantage of) and being a smaller nation though, always going to happen. Taking the cynical approach of forcing them into an early 'proper' cap will just keep them further away from the first team until they want to make a decision.

pjohnson

If this is to do with money he should be more concerned about his West Ham career before he starts thinking of big bucks/lucrative contractsm

TheCitizen

hots wrote: »

Fair enough, it's a reality of the multiple-nationalies (that we get to take plenty of advantage of) and being a smaller nation though, always going to happen. Taking the cynical approach of forcing them into an early 'proper' cap will just keep them further away from the first team until they want to make a decision.

The English born players who are genuine about wanting to play for Ireland won’t have a problem with the policy the FAI should adopt to tie players to Ireland as early as possible for the purposes of ending speculation about their international futures. Any young players reticent about such a policy? or want to keep their options open? Fine, we don’t want them. They can stop wasting our time and taking game time off players who actually want to play for Ireland.

Guy:Incognito

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The one and only issue for you should be money?

Well, we differ.

Plus I still don't see this evidence that players who chose Ireland took a substantial hit in wages and endorsements. As hots observed, playing a lot for Ireland could suit a player, I suspect Robbie Keane's agent could consistently point to his goal rate at international level when negotiating a new contract or move.

Not the one and only but the first thing.

If he gets a career ending injury at the weekend, in a decade he'll be "remember your man that played a couple of times" to fans. **** that, look after what's best for yourself. Everything else is down the list.

TheCitizen

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Not the one and only but the first thing.

If he gets a career ending injury at the weekend, in a decade he'll be "remember your man that played a couple of times" to fans. **** that, look after what's best for yourself. Everything else is down the list.

It’s not like playing for Ireland would damage his career. It’s just that there might be a bit more for himself and his agent and board members at West Am if he’s an England squad prospect instead. The English FA have offered money as a sweetener as well. He’s taking the coin which is his choice so just fck off Declan and stop wasting our time.

noodler

I don't know why people are so disbelieving at the money point.

Population about 15 times ours, simple economies of scale. Even a handful of caps and he could get sponsorship deals in excess of an Ireland great.

The English premium on transfer fees is there for all to see and players /agents take a slice of that. Can't see how it wouldn't extend to wages either.

More likely to qualify for competitions which instantly increases those opportunities as well. Pound for pound, You are simply a more marketable commodity in the EPL if English.

Whether that is his main reason in am less sure buts definitely there.

keeponhurling

TheCitizen wrote: »

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Not the one and only but the first thing.  

If he gets a career ending injury at the weekend,  in a decade he'll be "remember your man that played a couple of times"  to fans.  **** that,  look after what's best for yourself.  Everything else is down the list.

The English FA have offered money as a sweetener as well. 

Have they ?

Fr Tod Umptious

A good English player will always end up better off contract wise the the equivalent Irish one.

Its been mentioned time and again on these boards about how English talent is over priced.

So if Rice thinks he can become one of these over priced pieces of English talent then he should go for it.

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Not the one and only but the first thing.

If he gets a career ending injury at the weekend, in a decade he'll be "remember your man that played a couple of times" to fans. **** that, look after what's best for yourself. Everything else is down the list.

But there is no difference between playing for Ireland and England in that regard. If he gets a career ending injury next week he'll get his insurance payout, presumably with loss of future earnings built in. I suspect they would be substantial based on his career as a Premier League footballer, not substantial if he plays for England only but far less of he plays for Ireland.

Has any study been carried out on this whole certainty that English players earn so much more that it's a no brainer to play for England. Did anyone tell players like Zaha or Giggs who had the opportunity and declined?

J Mysterio

hots wrote: »

Very true, and even in the decent english youth teams I would say centre back is the least exciting spot for prospects.

He's a midfielder though?...

TheCitizen

keeponhurling wrote: »

Have they ?

Yes. According to the boys on Newstalk last night the English FA have offered him a few coins to switch. Declan is deliberating about taking the coin.

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

A good English player will always end up better off contract wise the the equivalent Irish one.

Its been mentioned time and again on these boards about how English talent is over priced.

So if Rice thinks he can become one of these over priced pieces of English talent then he should go for it.

I took that in the context of players based in England and who came up through the system there are overpriced.

I haven't, for example, heard of any club focussing on Scottish and Irish players in the lower leagues because there are better bargains to be had.

TheCitizen

Deleted User wrote: »

But there is no difference between playing for Ireland and England in that regard. If he gets a career ending injury next week he'll get his insurance payout, presumably with loss of future earnings built in. I suspect they would be substantial based on his career as a Premier League footballer, not substantial if he plays for England only but far less of he plays for Ireland.

Has any study been carried out on this whole certainty that English players earn so much more that it's a no brainer to play for England. Did anyone tell players like Zaha or Giggs who had the opportunity and declined?

Gareth Bale's agent tried to persuade him to play for England but he resisted. In Giggs time the English FA were less aggressive about this issue than they are now. I'd imagine guys like Kilbane would always have played for Ireland but wouldn't be so sure about Townsend, Lawrenson, Aldridge and the like if they were playing today.

The English FA clearly felt they lost out on these English born players over the years and so have resolved to be more aggressive and ruthless on this issue. The FAI need to reciprocate in kind with a similarly aggressive policy and go out of their way to tie English born players to Ireland when at all possible.