Is Declan Rice giving up on playing for Ireland?

Berserker

Any word on whether the FAI are going to offer a financial incentive to get Rice on board? A player like him could be the difference maker when it comes to qualification for the next Euros, for example, for you. If you could pull this one through, you might be able to entice Grealish in also. That'd be a big lift for you.

Subcomandante Marcos

What financial incentive do you think the FAI can or could offer?

TheCitizen

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

A good English player will always end up better off contract wise the the equivalent Irish one.

Its been mentioned time and again on these boards about how English talent is over priced.

So if Rice thinks he can become one of these over priced pieces of English talent then he should go for it.

He can do that if he likes. He can stop wasting our time though and the FAI need to up the ante on this in future and meet the increasingly aggressive approach from the English FA head on.

Berserker

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

What financial incentive do you think the FAI can or could offer?

A signing bonus in some form.

TheCitizen

Berserker wrote: »

Any word on whether the FAI are going to offer a financial incentive to get Rice on board? A player like him could be the difference maker when it comes to qualification for the next Euros, for example, for you. If you could pull this one through, you might be able to entice Grealish in also. That'd be a big lift for you.

Back for another round of fishing I see:pac:

TheCitizen

Berserker wrote: »

A signing bonus in some form.

The exchange rate is in our favour at the minute I think, perhaps that will come into Declan's 'deliberations'

Berserker

TheCitizen wrote: »

Back for another round of fishing I see:pac:

Are you going to post that line everything someone posts something you don't agree with? Grealish is still a viable goer for you. You aren't exactly spoiled for choice in that part of the field. Do you not want your team to be successful?

TheCitizen

Berserker wrote: »

Are you going to post that line everything someone posts something you don't agree with? Grealish is still a viable goer for you. You aren't exactly spoiled for choice in that part of the field. Do you not want your team to be successful?

Grealish isn't a viable goer

Berserker

TheCitizen wrote: »

Grealish isn't a viable goer

He thought he was going to get into our squad. He hasn't and won't for the foreseeable future. I'm in little doubt that you could get him back onside.

pjohnson

Berserker wrote: »

Are you going to post that line everything someone posts something you don't agree with? Grealish is still a viable goer for you. You aren't exactly spoiled for choice in that part of the field. Do you not want your team to be successful?

Berserker wrote: »

He thought he was going to get into our squad. He hasn't and won't for the foreseeable future. I'm in little doubt that you could get him back onside.

I guess you know more than FIFA re. Eligibility rules.

Fire them an email correcting them there lad.

TheCitizen

Berserker wrote: »

He's a greedy git who thought he was going to get into our squad. He hasn't and won't for the foreseeable future. I'm in little doubt that you could get him back onside.

I'm in little doubt that won't be happening same with Declan and his 'deliberations'.

jmayo

jones wrote: »

Gutted about this. Last year there was "no decision to make" now England in contact and he's deliberating. It's a funny one though as he's born and bred in England so i can see why he's deciding. I think agents have a lot of pull sure lets be honest money wise it's better for them to declare for England over Ireland (assuming the person makes it in the English set up)

Lets face it Rice is born and bred English so he would have grown up supporting England like all his mates.

Now that means he probably always had a desire to play for England so fair enough he plays for England.

The thing that does get my goat is that he came over to Ireland, played at numerous underage levels, even was part of the senior squad, declared his undying love for the country and now the sleveen is deliberating the minute it looks like England are interested.

And maybe just maybe he should have had a bit of principle like his club captain who when linked with Ireland had stated that "he would not feel right representing Ireland and would not deprive another player of such an honour."

There is too many underage English players being brought in, taking spots of real Irish lads, and all they are doing is using it as a stepping stone.
We end up blooding some guys who are just passing time until they get a call up from England.

keeponhurling

TheCitizen wrote: »

keeponhurling wrote: »

Have they ?

Yes. According to the boys on Newstalk last night the English FA have offered him a few coins to switch. Declan is deliberating about taking the coin.

So what sort of bunse is he looking at?

TheCitizen

keeponhurling wrote: »

So what sort of bunse is he looking at?

You know it makes sense Deckers lovely jubbly

TheCitizen

jmayo wrote: »

Lets face it Rice is born and bred English so he would have grown up supporting England like all his mates.

Now that means he probably always had a desire to play for England so fair enough he plays for England.

The thing that does get my goat is that he came over to Ireland, played at numerous underage levels, even was part of the senior squad, declared his undying love for the country and now the sleveen is deliberating the minute it looks like England are interested.

And maybe just maybe he should have had a bit of principle like his club captain who when linked with Ireland had stated that "he would not feel right representing Ireland and would not deprive another player of such an honour."

There is too many underage English players being brought in, taking spots of real Irish lads, and all they are doing is using it as a stepping stone.
We end up blooding some guys who are just passing time until they get a call up from England.

Thanks to Rice all English born lads coming to play for Ireland at different levels from now on have a cloud of suspicion hanging over them. They're not to be trusted until they are tied to Ireland. That'll be Declan's legacy, cheers Declan don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.

hots

J Mysterio wrote: »

He's a midfielder though?...

He's been a centre back and right back when I've seen him play, tried centre mid a bit too I believe.

hots

TheCitizen wrote: »

Thanks to Rice all English born lads coming to play for Ireland at different levels from now on have a cloud of suspicion hanging over them. They're not to be trusted until they are tied to Ireland. That'll be Declan's legacy, cheers Declan don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.

Only the ones good enough to maybe push for the better team right? And if you have that attitude we'll end up with only the crap lads with funny accents and none of the ones maybe good enough to play for England.
You have to take the rough with the smooth with the granny rule.

TheCitizen

hots wrote: »

Only the ones good enough to maybe push for the better team right? And if you have that attitude we'll end up with only the crap lads with funny accents and none of the ones maybe good enough to play for England.
You have to take the rough with the smooth with the granny rule.

You think the FAI should do nothing about the likes of Rice taking up game time of other players for years up to and including 3 times for the senior team only to fck off with himself and make himself available for the England squad? The English FA are taking a more aggressive stance on this, the FAI must do likewise. Your attitude on this is a losers attitude.

hots

TheCitizen wrote: »

You think the FAI should do nothing about the likes of Rice taking up game time of other players for years up to and including 3 times for the senior team only to fck off with himself and make himself available for the England squad? The English FA are taking a more aggressive stance on this, the FAI must do likewise. Your attitude on this is a losers attitude.

Who have the FA given a token cap to to lock them in? The FAI take a harsh stance and they'll cut off their nose and lose other players who may (or may not) eventually play regularly for Ireland, taking a punt on a couple coming good for the cost of 3 senior caps is well worth it.


People are blinded by the expectation that the boys in green have to bleed green from the first time they get a jersey.

TheCitizen

hots wrote: »

Who have the FA given a token cap to to lock them in? The FAI take a harsh stance and they'll cut off their nose and lose other players who may (or may not) eventually play regularly for Ireland, taking a punt on a couple coming good for the cost of 3 senior caps is well worth it.


People are blinded by the expectation that the boys in green have to bleed green from the first time they get a jersey.

The English FA are upping the ante offering money for players who have been playing for Ireland for years to switch. We need to stop that as much as we can by tying them down to us. It's not good for our set up and morale of other players.

TheCitizen

hots wrote: »

Only the ones good enough to maybe push for the better team right? And if you have that attitude we'll end up with only the crap lads with funny accents and none of the ones maybe good enough to play for England.
You have to take the rough with the smooth with the granny rule.

What do you mean by funny accents btw?

hots

TheCitizen wrote: »

What do you mean by funny accents btw?

I was being glib about foreign-born players who come in under the granny rule.



I can't imagine the FA are splashing cash of any significant value to factor into the guy's decision are they? The sponsorship stuff I could buy if he makes it but the FA now are hardly lining the players pockets.


If the FAI wants to attract the foreign-born players over you have to keep offering them chances to play regularly for Ireland and have the team at the highest level possible. There's no way to stop those players heads being turned before their first competitive cap if they think they're on the cusp of making it with a "better" team. Making them take early caps for the sake of locking them down will only create ill-feeling and make them make the decision a bit earlier.

TheCitizen

hots wrote: »

I was being glib about foreign-born players who come in under the granny rule.



I can't imagine the FA are splashing cash of any significant value to factor into the guy's decision are they? The sponsorship stuff I could buy if he makes it but the FA now are hardly lining the players pockets.


If the FAI wants to attract the foreign-born players over you have to keep offering them chances to play regularly for Ireland and have the team at the highest level possible. There's no way to stop those players heads being turned before their first competitive cap if they think they're on the cusp of making it with a "better" team. Making them take early caps for the sake of locking them down will only create ill-feeling and make them make the decision a bit earlier.

Fine. We don't want them so. What would be their problem with a policy where they are being asked to take an early cap to remove speculation about their international futures? If they have a problem with it that's a sign they'll switch if the opportunity arises so them "making their decision a bit earlier" as you say is better for all concerned.

What Rice is doing now is creating "ill feeling" with other players in Ireland squads. What Rice is doing now is creating a cloud of suspicion hanging over every English born kid who is playing for Ireland at underage level, because will they do the same thing and fck off if and when the English FA who are becoming increasingly aggressive on this come calling.

That's not fair on plenty of English born lads who actually want to play for Ireland but thanks to Rice the suspicion will be there with all of them from now on.

Tie them down as early as possible or they can fck off and stop wasting our time and taking up game time from other players. That should be the FAI policy on this from now on.

It's dog eat dog, the English FA are upping the ante on this and the FAI need to get wise and do what's best for our set up regarding this issue.

hots

TheCitizen wrote: »

Fine. We don't want them so.

Fair enough, who knows how many previous players in the past would have been missed if that approach was taken. There's only ill-feeling from others players towards the english ones if they share your hardline opinion, I'd imagine there's a good amount who sympathize, even if they'll never be in the position themselves to have to make that tough decision.

OldMrBrennan83

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

What financial incentive do you think the FAI can or could offer?

Maybe some of the five figures they're overpaying that Delaney waster.

Not that I'd agree with giving him a penny. Slam the door in his face, move on, and stop being laughing stocks.

Arghus

Even if it is all about money, so what?

Rice is a professional footballer, at the beginning of his career. What country he decides to represent could have a massive difference on what he earns over the course of his career. He's entitled to make a decision that suits himself and reading some of the hard line nonsense here makes me think he's dead right.

Football fans always talk about "loyalty" and players being "selfish", but they don't like to acknowledge that it cuts both ways. Most fans are, at the end of the day, only interested in what a player can do for their team and, by extension, themselves If Declan Rice declared for Ireland and suffered a career ending injury the next day, you wouldn't give him a second thought. So why should he care about you?

TheCitizen

hots wrote: »

Fair enough, who knows how many previous players in the past would have been missed if that approach was taken.

The point is things have changed. The English FA have changed their approach to this and are becoming more aggressive in stopping English born players declaring for other countries like Ireland. The FAI have to change their approach in respect of that otherwise they'll run the risk of giving international experience to English born players at under age level only to lose them to the England squad when they come of age, if they're any good and the English FA want them that is.

hots wrote: »

There's only ill-feeling from others players towards the english ones if they share your hardline opinion, I'd imagine there's a good amount who sympathize, even if they'll never be in the position themselves to have to make that tough decision.

I'd imagine coaches and other players will be viewing English born players with suspicion from now on. They'll be thinking if he's a really good player then the English FA will try to make him switch, so why are we giving international experience to these players at the expense of Irish born players?

How is it a "hardline" opinion to express these views btw? i want the FAI to defend Ireland's position on this for the betterment of all players involved at all levels.

I don't think you've thought this through. Declan Rice switching is his business but it creates a precedent that can have other ramifications and effects Irish international teams and decision making in those teams.

TheCitizen

Arghus wrote: »

Even if it is all about money, so what?

Rice is a professional footballer, at the beginning of his career. What country he decides to represent could have a massive difference on what he earns over the course of his career. He's entitled to make a decision that suits himself and reading some of the hard line nonsense here makes me think he's dead right.

Football fans always talk about "loyalty" and players being "selfish", but they don't like to acknowledge that it cuts both ways. Most fans are, at the end of the day, only interested in what a player can do for their team and, by extension, themselves If Declan Rice declared for Ireland and suffered a career ending injury the next day, you wouldn't give him a second thought. So why should he care about you?

Again that isn’t the point. The point is how does it affect the rest of the players when they see Ireland pandering to this guy as he ‘deliberates’ on whether he wants to even play for us or not? And how does it affect other English born players who will now come under a cloud of suspicion because of what Rice is at?

Berserker

jmayo wrote: »

The thing that does get my goat is that he came over to Ireland, played at numerous underage levels, even was part of the senior squad, declared his undying love for the country and now the sleveen is deliberating the minute it looks like England are interested.

......

There is too many underage English players being brought in, taking spots of real Irish lads, and all they are doing is using it as a stepping stone.

Firstly, I have to say that I burst out laughing at the first paragraph. How many players who've played for the RoI at senior level were developed elsewhere? You lot are champions when it comes to it that.

What other lads are losing out because of Rice?

TheCitizen

Berserker wrote: »

Firstly, I have to say that I burst out laughing at the first paragraph. How many players who've played for the RoI at senior level were developed elsewhere? You lot are champions when it comes to it that.

What other lads are losing out because of Rice?

Oh aye us “lot” were champions at that and that’s why the English FA have become increasingly aggressive on this. The FAI need to reciprocate and do what’s best for Irish International teams in relation to this now.

We’ll need to fight fire with fire on this otherwise why should we give international experience to young English born lads just to run the risk of losing them to the England squad when the English FA come calling?

The gloves are off on this issue, the FAI need to become as bloody minded and ruthless as the English FA from here on. Create a policy to cap players and tie them down whenever and wherever possible. Be absolutely ruthless and cut throat about it and make no apologies for it. If the players in question don’t like, show them the door.

pjohnson

Berserker wrote: »

Firstly, I have to say that I burst out laughing at the first paragraph. How many players who've played for the RoI at senior level were developed elsewhere? You lot are champions when it comes to it that.

What other lads are losing out because of Rice?

Not as funny as you over ruling Fifa insisting Grealish can still play for Ireland.

TheCitizen

pjohnson wrote: »

Not as funny as you over ruling Fifa insisting Grealish can still play for Ireland.

Did they actually do that? Can they do that?

The English FA have become Irelands sworn enemy on this eligibility issue. The FAI need to become absolutely ruthless. Gloves are off.

Any English born player in our underage set up showing promise and getting close to an EPL first team; tie them to us ruthlessly. Otherwise we'll be losing them anyway given the English FA's increasingly aggressive stance on this.

Rossi IRL

Rice starting tonight for West Ham

Kidchameleon

Abolish the granny rule, its a joke. I remember some Caucasian bloke playing for Japan and my daughter was like, WTF??? Its embarrassing. Id rather never qualify but have a real Irish team.*


* Exception, Kevin Kilbanne.

Kenjataimu

I'm just waiting for all those Brazilians that were born in Ireland (mainly in Gort) to declare for us in a few years.

There is bound to be a few just not good enough for Brazil that will be grand for us.

vicwatson

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Rice starting tonight for West Ham

And he had a very good game

LeBash

Dempsey wrote: »

I think the FAI need to review their policies around players like Declan Rice.

Propping up underage talent to be cherry picked by other countries is embarrassing.

England have probably been saying the same thing for the last 30 years about us.

LowOdour

Is there any worry that Rice, Grealish and Kelly have all changed their minds during MON's term...or is that coincidence?

TheCitizen

LeBash wrote: »

England have probably been saying the same thing for the last 30 years about us.

Yes, they have. And now the boot is on the other foot.

So the FAI need to fight back and be extremely aggressive in tying players down.

Other than that the only option we have to consider seriously is; is it worth it to be bringing English born lads over and giving them International experience for them to then switch back to the England set up if they prove to be potentially any good.

This sort of crap from Rice needs to end. No matter what his personal decision is after his 'deliberations'. All English born lads in the Irish under age set up from here on are under a cloud of suspicion.

TheCitizen

LowOdour wrote: »

Is there any worry that Rice, Grealish and Kelly have all changed their minds during MON's term...or is that coincidence?

Oh look a squirrel.

irishman86

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Abolish the granny rule, its a joke. I remember some Caucasian bloke playing for Japan and my daughter was like, WTF??? Its embarrassing. Id rather never qualify but have a real Irish team.*


* Exception, Kevin Kilbanne.

Wasnt he born in Japan

Arghus

irishman86 wrote: »

Wasnt he born in Japan

Mike Havenaar. Yes, indeed he was actually born in Japan.

Fr Tod Umptious

Kenjataimu wrote: »

I'm just waiting for all those Brazilians that were born in Ireland (mainly in Gort) to declare for us in a few years.

There is bound to be a few just not good enough for Brazil that will be grand for us.

The Brazilians came to Gort in the early '00s ,many left after the crash.

Any kids born there would want to be well in the system at this stage.

jmayo

Berserker wrote: »

Firstly, I have to say that I burst out laughing at the first paragraph. How many players who've played for the RoI at senior level were developed elsewhere? You lot are champions when it comes to it that.

What other lads are losing out because of Rice?

Ah great I got a laugh from you.

Now if you are English ...
lets see we have had probably only a few players that played for Ireland that would ever have played a lot for England.
Mark Lawrenson being one that tops that list.
Ron Greenwood I think actually said he regretted he never played for England.
But Lawro was playing for 3 years for Ireland before he got the high profile move to Liverpool.
Maybe Johnny Giles was better at spotting talent than the English. :rolleyes:

John Aldridge was another one that would probably have played a fair few games for England. He was at Oxford when he first played for Ireland.
Granted he had helped them from third division to first and a league cup Win so was a known quantity.

There are others that might have played a few games for England like Robinson, Townsend, McAteer, Hughton, Galvin.

Or are you just sore you lost out on Cascarino ]

Other very good players that would have gotten on English teams that were born in England, but grew up in Ireland are Paul McGrath, Dave O'Leary.
Then again the converse of that in English terms would be Terry Butcher, Raheem Sterling, Wilfred Zaha.

BTW England haven't ever been backward at nabbing players from other countries or perhaps you don't remember Owen Hargreaves or John Barnes ?

If you are Northern Irish ...
well then that is a whole different story and there is the whole dual citizenship thingy.
Also maybe you could look inwards and ask why catholic nationalist born players would play for a country that has a lot of fans that despise their very existence as was more than adequately shown with Neil Lennon.

If you are Scottish ...
then maybe you do have a gripe.
But just maybe be grateful we took McGeady off your hands:D

Banjaxed82

TheCitizen wrote: »

Yes, they have. And now the boot is on the other foot.

So the FAI need to fight back and be extremely aggressive in tying players down.

Other than that the only option we have to consider seriously is; is it worth it to be bringing English born lads over and giving them International experience for them to then switch back to the England set up if they prove to be potentially any good.

This sort of crap from Rice needs to end. No matter what his personal decision is after his 'deliberations'. All English born lads in the Irish under age set up from here on are under a cloud of suspicion.

In the very short term yes, but as England's pool has dried up over the last decade or so, these occurrence will increase with frequency.

The only answer is development of our own players. The Irish are mad for exporting issues. This is one that's come home to roost, and will steadily get worse the longer it's allowed to fester.

Underground

I think it's been mentioned in this thread or another already, but I would love to see us abandon the granny rule and only call up players from the island of Ireland. If the FAI could implement it on a phase-in basis i.e any English born players who have already represented Ireland (the Harry Arters of this world) are exempt from the rule and can continue to be selected but after a number of years these players would be phased out.

It would hurt initially, we would be selecting from a much smaller pool, it would be a 15-20 year slog before we would see progress from it I would think. I do think it would be great for the LOI though and would finally put and end to the FAI papering over the cracks and force them to invest in grassroots football over here.

weldoninhio

Underground wrote: »

I think it's been mentioned in this thread or another already, but I would love to see us abandon the granny rule and only call up players from the island of Ireland. If the FAI could implement it on a phase-in basis i.e any English born players who have already represented Ireland (the Harry Arters of this world) are exempt from the rule and can continue to be selected but after a number of years these players would be phased out.

It would hurt initially, we would be selecting from a much smaller pool, it would be a 15-20 year slog before we would see progress from it I would think. I do think it would be great for the LOI though and would finally put and end to the FAI papering over the cracks and force them to invest in grassroots football over here.

Or we'd just be shitter

Banjaxed82

Underground wrote: »

I think it's been mentioned in this thread or another already, but I would love to see us abandon the granny rule and only call up players from the island of Ireland. If the FAI could implement it on a phase-in basis i.e any English born players who have already represented Ireland (the Harry Arters of this world) are exempt from the rule and can continue to be selected but after a number of years these players would be phased out.

It would hurt initially, we would be selecting from a much smaller pool, it would be a 15-20 year slog before we would see progress from it I would think. I do think it would be great for the LOI though and would finally put and end to the FAI papering over the cracks and force them to invest in grassroots football over here.

I would want to see something concrete in motion in youth player development before I'd even consider this.

Also, potentially granny rule being done away with is possible, but I think anyone born outside of Ireland and with an Irish parent should still be entitled to play.

SlickRic

To me, it's amazing how annoyed so many of my mates are getting about this.

Firstly, he's English. I don't really care that he played for us at underage level, and even that he played the friendlies. He's English. If he ends up feeling English, he's entitled to play for them if he wants.

If I was any good at sport, I could qualify for South Africa through my parents. I can honestly say that if I didn't think I'd ever be good enough for Ireland, and played underage and friendlies for South Africa instead, then improved, and ended up being a viable option for Ireland, I wouldn't think twice. I'm Irish. the rules are the rules. if the rules were such that I couldn't ever play for Ireland if I played those matches for South Africa, then I may not have ever made that choice to begin with.

Rice played the rules as they are. he may not have ever played for us if this loophole didn't exist. or maybe he would have. we'll know soon.

Secondly, this is also a career decision. he's watched Harry fúcking Maguire, on the back of objectively quite ordinary World Cup performances, be linked to Manchester United for €70m, and potentially a huge payrise. if Rice gets to play regularly for England, it could exponentially increase his earning potential.

Thirdly, is he really that good? people around me, who I guarantee have barely seen him play 90 full minutes, are lauding him as brilliant. it's nonsense. he hasn't proved anything yet, and is part of a West Ham team that is actually quite terrible for the talent that is around him.

also, I've seen people annoyed that he kissed the badge, and telling us all how welcoming the setup has been. are we really that precious that we're now annoyed that he did these things? good grief.

the FAI needs to get the finger out and start producing players of their own, who are Irish. the reliance on this granny rule is painful.

Declan Rice can do what he likes.
he has every right to consult everyone who matters to him, and to not take this decision lightly.

if he plays for Ireland, great.
if he plays for England, good luck to him. we'll move on.

Niles Crane

SlickRic wrote: »

To me, it's amazing how annoyed so many of my mates are getting about this.

Firstly, he's English. I don't really care that he played for us at underage level, and even that he played the friendlies. He's English. If he ends up feeling English, he's entitled to play for them if he wants.

If I was any good at sport, I could qualify for South Africa through my parents. I can honestly say that if I didn't think I'd ever be good enough for Ireland, and played underage and friendlies for South Africa instead, then improved, and ended up being a viable option for Ireland, I wouldn't think twice. I'm Irish. the rules are the rules. if the rules were such that I couldn't ever play for Ireland if I played those matches for South Africa, then I may not have ever made that choice to begin with.

Rice played the rules as they are. he may not have ever played for us if this loophole didn't exist. or maybe he would have. we'll know soon.

Secondly, this is also a career decision. he's watched Harry fúcking Maguire, on the back of objectively quite ordinary World Cup performances, be linked to Manchester United for €70m, and potentially a huge payrise. if Rice gets to play regularly for England, it could exponentially increase his earning potential.

Thirdly, is he really that good? people around me, who I guarantee have barely seen him play 90 full minutes, are lauding him as brilliant. it's nonsense. he hasn't proved anything yet, and is part of a West Ham team that is actually quite terrible for the talent that is around him.

also, I've seen people annoyed that he kissed the badge, and telling us all how welcoming the setup has been. are we really that precious that we're now annoyed that he did these things? good grief.

the FAI needs to get the finger out and start producing players of their own, who are Irish. the reliance on this granny rule is painful.

Declan Rice can do what he likes.
he has every right to consult everyone who matters to him, and to not take this decision lightly.

if he plays for Ireland, great.
if he plays for England, good luck to him. we'll move on.

Declan Rice can do what he likes but he is entitled to get criticised for stringing the country along, he's entitled to be criticised for taking the place at various levels of players who desperately want to play for Ireland , he's entitled to be criticised for dragging out this whole thing for too long. He's entiled to be critcised for his phoniness over representing Ireland i.e kissing the badge.