Is Declan Rice giving up on playing for Ireland?

J Mysterio

The national team isnt there to serve as some vehicle for Rice's career progression. The national team is there for people who feel Irish and want to represent Ireland. If he doesnt feel Irish, he should fucķ off out of it. Simple. The problem is we dont know where he stands and people feel that he has taken advantage of the national team and, by extension, the fans.

hots

Niles Crane wrote: »

Declan Rice can do what he likes but he is entitled to get criticised for stringing the country along, he's entitled to be criticised for taking the place at various levels of players who desperately want to play for Ireland , he's entitled to be criticised for dragging out this whole thing for too long. He's entiled to be critcised for his phoniness over representing Ireland i.e kissing the badge.

He was picked because he was better than the others though, that's the risk you take when you try and take advantage of the foreign players rules. Glad to see a couple of pros coming out in his defense too.

hots

J Mysterio wrote: »

The national team isnt there to serve as some vehicle for Rice's career progression. The national team is there for people who feel Irish and want to represent Ireland. If he doesnt feel Irish, he should fucķ off out of it. Simple. The problem is we dont know where he stands and people feel that he has taken advantage of the national team and, by extension, the fans.

Maybe he doesn't know what he feels yet and needs time to consider it. He hasn't had to make a call up until now because A) Ireland has been his only offer until he's started playing at a decent standard and Now he has to make a permanent call.

TheCitizen

SlickRic wrote: »

To me, it's amazing how annoyed so many of my mates are getting about this.

Firstly, he's English. I don't really care that he played for us at underage level, and even that he played the friendlies. He's English. If he ends up feeling English, he's entitled to play for them if he wants.

If I was any good at sport, I could qualify for South Africa through my parents. I can honestly say that if I didn't think I'd ever be good enough for Ireland, and played underage and friendlies for South Africa instead, then improved, and ended up being a viable option for Ireland, I wouldn't think twice. I'm Irish. the rules are the rules. if the rules were such that I couldn't ever play for Ireland if I played those matches for South Africa, then I may not have ever made that choice to begin with.

Rice played the rules as they are. he may not have ever played for us if this loophole didn't exist. or maybe he would have. we'll know soon.

Secondly, this is also a career decision. he's watched Harry fúcking Maguire, on the back of objectively quite ordinary World Cup performances, be linked to Manchester United for €70m, and potentially a huge payrise. if Rice gets to play regularly for England, it could exponentially increase his earning potential.

Thirdly, is he really that good? people around me, who I guarantee have barely seen him play 90 full minutes, are lauding him as brilliant. it's nonsense. he hasn't proved anything yet, and is part of a West Ham team that is actually quite terrible for the talent that is around him.

also, I've seen people annoyed that he kissed the badge, and telling us all how welcoming the setup has been. are we really that precious that we're now annoyed that he did these things? good grief.

the FAI needs to get the finger out and start producing players of their own, who are Irish. the reliance on this granny rule is painful.

Declan Rice can do what he likes.
he has every right to consult everyone who matters to him, and to not take this decision lightly.

if he plays for Ireland, great.
if he plays for England, good luck to him. we'll move on.

This isn't just about Declan Rice. Produce more homegrown players, yes great everyone agrees with that.

However are we still going to bring over English born players in the short and medium term and put them into our underage teams and if they're any good lose them to the England squad?

TheCitizen

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

In the very short term yes, but as England's pool has dried up over the last decade or so, these occurrence will increase with frequency.

The only answer is development of our own players. The Irish are mad for exporting issues. This is one that's come home to roost, and will steadily get worse the longer it's allowed to fester.

Longer than just the 'very short term' I would suggest, unless we are in the 'very short term' going to suddenly stop picking English born lads for the Irish International teams entirely.

Minderbinder

Has there been any reaction at all to this in England? I’ve seen all the quotes from people like Sam Allardyce but not sure where they’re coming from. On Sky Sports I haven’t seen anything about it and they even have an article about the England squad and potential newcomers today. I’d have thought he’d be mentioned.

Maybe Gareth is the only one who actually wants him or cares about him declaring for England.

Meanwhile in Ireland...

Mars Bar

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The Brazilians came to Gort in the early '00s ,many left after the crash.

Any kids born there would want to be well in the system at this stage.

They'll be playing hurling anyway!

Niles Crane

Liam O wrote: »

If Duff was English he'd certainly have been paid more. Unsure if Keane or JOS would have ever played for them really tbh. Keane maybe would have gotten 10 caps.

Considering both Emile Heskey and Jermaine Defoe got over 50 caps for England I'd imagine Robbie Keane would have played for them more than 10 times if he was English.

Niles Crane

hots wrote: »

He was picked because he was better than the others though, that's the risk you take when you try and take advantage of the foreign players rules. Glad to see a couple of pros coming out in his defense too.

He could have turned the offer down if he wasn't 100% behind playing for Ireland.

Playing international football is not about logic it's about pride in representing your country.

Arghus

Niles Crane wrote: »

He could have turned the offer down if he wasn't 100% behind playing for Ireland.

Playing international football is not about logic it's about pride in representing your country.

And neither is supporting it either, judging by some of the responses to all of this!

noodler

SlickRic wrote: »

.

Thirdly, is he really that good? people around me, who I guarantee have barely seen him play 90 full minutes, are lauding him as brilliant. .

Are we though?

Are we really??

Has ANYONE on boards said that?

hots

Niles Crane wrote: »

Playing international football is not about logic it's about pride in representing your country.

You're right, let just ask them when they go to primary school if they want to be branded with the crest and if they say no stick them on the ferry.

OldMrBrennan83

At this stage he should just come out, declare for England, and be done with it. We all know he's going to do it, so why drag it out? Publicity?

ERG89

noodler wrote:

Has ANYONE on boards said that?

He looked the best of a bad bunch in the recent friendlies for Ireland & some people are worried about the quality of our squad overall going forward.
I know Grealish and Rice are both English born but both were underage Irish internationals until it came to senior level there must be a worry that if we have a good Irish born youngster who is playing in England that they will at least try to get them to play for them instead.

SlickRic

noodler wrote: »

Are we though?

Are we really??

Has ANYONE on boards said that?

Did I say boards?

eagle eye

I'm against having foreign born players playing underage for Ireland. A cap for some young lad could be the difference in his career. I think we would be a lot better off only allowing foreign born players in the senior international setup.

P_1

Surely this is indicative of the failure of the FAI to develop the LOI.

Why are so many promising young footballers still going to England so young.

Surely some academy set up between the LOI clubs and our universities can be set up. We have successful examples of this working with GAA and rugby. A young player gets their degree and also hones their footballing skills. This in turn generates a higher selling fee for the player if they move on to a bigger league and brings more money into the LOI.

Now it will need some seed money to begin with but within 10 years the investment should pay off.

j8wk2feszrnpao

P_1 wrote: »

Surely this is indicative of the failure of the FAI to develop the LOI.

Why are so many promising young footballers still going to England so young.

Surely some academy set up between the LOI clubs and our universities can be set up. We have successful examples of this working with GAA and rugby. A young player gets their degree and also hones their footballing skills. This in turn generates a higher selling fee for the player if they move on to a bigger league and brings more money into the LOI.

Now it will need some seed money to begin with but within 10 years the investment should pay off.

This has nothing to do with the FAI or the LOI; this is about a player making up his own mind.
Young players will always go to Eng cause that's where the money/allure is.
I don't know how you expect an academy to be setup between the clubs and the universities; the clubs have never did it, and the FAI won't.
Rugby/GAA don't have anything like the competition from across the water, esp not the GAA.

P_1

munstermagic11 wrote: »

This has nothing to do with the FAI or the LOI; this is about a player making up his own mind.
Young players will always go to Eng cause that's where the money/allure is.
I don't know how you expect an academy to be setup between the clubs and the universities; the clubs have never did it, and the FAI won't.
Rugby/GAA don't have anything like the competition from across the water, esp not the GAA.

Well perhaps it's time for the clubs to consider it. Everything else seems to have failed. Imagine a thriving domestic league with the likes of Tolka, Dalymount, Turners Cross et al sold out with people watching young players play with verve. An attractive product brings in the people, brings in the advertising money and will likely lead to an improvement in the national teams fortunes

j8wk2feszrnpao

P_1 wrote: »

Well perhaps it's time for the clubs to consider it.

The clubs are too skint to be able to afford this.
The universities would need to be seriously convinced and then compensated if this would benefit them.

We don’t need to have a thriving domestic league to necessarily improve the fortunes of the national league. It’d be great to have a better league here, the whole structure needs massive reform; but a number of vested interests don’t want change, while many LOI clubs can’t manage their finances, and the FAI have their own internal issues.

Football here needs a single minded dictator to take over and run the operation for the benefit of domestic and national teams. That isn’t going to happen; so it’s just pot luck that a bunch of quality players make it through the cracks.

TheCitizen

Arghus wrote: »

And neither is supporting it either, judging by some of the responses to all of this!

Agreed, some strange comments on here who don't seem to grasp the damage being done to the Irish international set up by guys like Rice playing for Ireland for years including 3 senior caps and then deciding he needs to 'deliberate' on his international future.

j8wk2feszrnpao

TheCitizen wrote: »

the damage being done to the Irish international set up

What exactly is the damage to the International set up?
He hadn’t played a competitive game for us at senior level. Everyone knew his background. None of the senior players or management has come out enraged at the issue. Perhaps some may have an issue, but others wouldn’t. Duff had an issue with a previous player (signing God save the Queen) but still played with him during a successful period.
Once the guy has made up his mind, everyone will move on from this.

Niles Crane

munstermagic11 wrote: »

What exactly is the damage to the International set up?
He hadn’t played a competitive game for us at senior level. Everyone knew his background. None of the senior players or management has come out enraged at the issue. Perhaps some may have an issue, but others wouldn’t. Duff had an issue with a previous player (signing God save the Queen) but still played with him during a successful period.
Once the guy has made up his mind, everyone will move on from this.

I don't think a lot of people will move on.

He's done this very publicly and has clearly pissed off a lot of fans.

The reason no current players have said anything is if anyone says anything they'll be criticised for not being tolerant enough and being too hard on the lad cause you know he's only 19.

The fact that Duff won't name the player show you exactly this (it's probably Matt Holland based on the description he gave) as he'll be accused of intolerance if he did.

I've never like the fact that we've had so many non irish born players on the team but put up with it because there were genuine cases like Tony Grealish,Mick McCarthy,Kevin Kilbane who desperately wanted to play for Ireland and it was there first choice allowing players like that to play for Ireland is great but Rice playing for Ireland after this and taking a spot away from a player who genuinely wants to play foir Ireland must be very discouraging for players in an aroudn the squad.

P_1

munstermagic11 wrote: »

The clubs are too skint to be able to afford this.
The universities would need to be seriously convinced and then compensated if this would benefit them.

We don’t need to have a thriving domestic league to necessarily improve the fortunes of the national league. It’d be great to have a better league here, the whole structure needs massive reform; but a number of vested interests don’t want change, while many LOI clubs can’t manage their finances, and the FAI have their own internal issues.

Football here needs a single minded dictator to take over and run the operation for the benefit of domestic and national teams. That isn’t going to happen; so it’s just pot luck that a bunch of quality players make it through the cracks.

Alas I know. Surely an investor can be found though

Berserker

Patww79 wrote: »

At this stage he should just come out, declare for England, and be done with it. We all know he's going to do it, so why drag it out? Publicity?

How do you know that he is going to opt to play for England? Plenty of people in the game are advising him to opt for you. Stuart Pearce said that he should stick with Ireland. He's come up through the ranks with Ireland and should stick with them. Big Sam said that he would be making a big mistake if he declared for England, citing the number of games he would get. The lad is 19 years old, people need to give him a bit of space. Not sure what age you were but could imagine trying to make a decision like this, with agents etc pressuring you, at 19?

OldMrBrennan83

Berserker wrote: »

How do you know that he is going to opt to play for England? Plenty of people in the game are advising him to opt for you. Stuart Pearce said that he should stick with Ireland. He's come up through the ranks with Ireland and should stick with them. Big Sam said that he would be making a big mistake if he declared for England, citing the number of games he would get. The lad is 19 years old, people need to give him a bit of space. Not sure what age you were but could imagine trying to make a decision like this, with agents etc pressuring you, at 19?

Because this is just dragging it out to cushion things a bit but the fact it's happened at all means he's switching.

The world has changed. Back in the 70s, 19 year olds across America were thinking of being shipped off to 'Nam. In the 80s in the country, 19 year olds were getting the bus to London to make enough to live.

All this talk about his head and the pressure and giving him space and blah blah blah. He's supposed to have rejected £15,000 per week from his club, as is his right and prerogative. The decision as to which country he should pick, which might boost his earning power more (if that is how he views it)...it's a bit like saying poor Saoirse Ronan has to decide between 2 lucrative roles, the poor thing.

hots

Deleted User wrote: »

The world has changed. Back in the 70s, 19 year olds across America were thinking of being shipped off to 'Nam. In the 80s in the country, 19 year olds were getting the bus to London to make enough to live.

All this talk about his head and the pressure and giving him space and blah blah blah. He's supposed to have rejected £15,000 per week from his club, as is his right and prerogative. The decision as to which country he should pick, which might boost his earning power more (if that is how he views it)...it's a bit like saying poor Saoirse Ronan has to decide between 2 lucrative roles, the poor thing.

There's a lot of people getting themselves worked up about him being a money grabber etc. when there's zero knowledge of it.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Niles Crane wrote: »

I don't think a lot of people will move on.

People will move on.
Some fans are pissed. Many are not. This is getting me a lot of coverage here, very little in the UK.
It’s nothing to do with intolerance. People can have their opinion, as we’ve seen.
The players won’t care that much either. Just like Duff, they’ll just get on with it. Someone else will play if Rice decides not to declare for Ireland.

Lukker-

People get way too worked over these things. He's not picking which side to fight for in the Easter Rising. It's possible to have a connection to multiple national identities, as anyone born to 2nd/3rd generation emmigrant parents will testify to.

hots

hots wrote: »

There's a lot of people getting themselves worked up about him being a money grabber etc. when there's zero knowledge of it.

Oh very true.

I suppose the point I'm making is that some are saying give him space, his head must be wrecked, the poor fellow, decision for life and all that. It's hardly a Sophie's Choice type scenario.

j8wk2feszrnpao

P_1 wrote: »

Alas I know. Surely an investor can be found though

I was amazed that someone decided to pump money into Limerick FC. Junior soccer is very strong there. Plenty of guys good enough for the LOI, but no interest in the travel and time involved. Always doomed for failure, and no surprise when he decided to pull out.
The return isn’t there to warrant the investment.

j8wk2feszrnpao

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh very true.

I suppose the point I'm making is that some are saying give him space, his head must be wrecked, the poor fellow, decision for life and all that. It's hardly a Sophie's Choice type scenario.

The opposite is true as well. Plenty of people calling for his head just because he’s taking a bit of time before making a huge decision for him.

johnnyryan89

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh very true.

I suppose the point I'm making is that some are saying give him space, his head must be wrecked, the poor fellow, decision for life and all that. It's hardly a Sophie's Choice type scenario.

It's not but if it was just a case of his family said pick Ireland but his agent said pick England like with O'Dowda fair enough but it must be somewhat head wrecking when the owner of West Ham, the man who pays your wages is going public with his opinion of he wants you to pick England so imagine what hes like in private conversations with the lad.

hots

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh very true.

I suppose the point I'm making is that some are saying give him space, his head must be wrecked, the poor fellow, decision for life and all that. It's hardly a Sophie's Choice type scenario.

Ah yeah that's fair, and whatever he chooses his 20k a week or whatever he's on will take the edge off it for sure, but I empathize with him a bit. I've been here long enough to feel more attachment watching Ireland than England by a long shot but if Gareth ever sees my Astro skills and gives me a call up I'd have a decision to make

P_1

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I was amazed that someone decided to pump money into Limerick FC. Junior soccer is very strong there. Plenty of guys good enough for the LOI, but no interest in the travel and time involved. Always doomed for failure, and no surprise when he decided to pull out.
The return isn’t there to warrant the investment.

Why is that though? Perhaps this may be better suited to another thread mind. Is there an appetite for radical reform of the LOI and if so what is the best form this reform should take?

j8wk2feszrnpao

P_1 wrote: »

Why is that though? Perhaps this may be better suited to another thread mind. Is there an appetite for radical reform of the LOI and if so what is the best form this reform should take?

The public interest isn’t there.
First of all the GAA is a behemoth here. It’s our national game. It’s how most people identify themselves with their ‘local’ team; an interest in football then will quite often mean a PL team.

Rugby has also ballooned here. It’s an avenue in to Pro Sports and the success of the Irish (national and provincial) sides makes it very attractive.
Munster played a games in Thomand last year and there was 12k there. A mate of mine said that’s poor given the capacity. But it’s 12k on a wet winters night; that’s still damn good.

Very few identify themselves with an LOI team. From my experience of Junior soccer in Limerick and Tipp, nobody cares about it. There’s no ambition to play in the league; if you’re good enough at an early age you are headed to Eng.

Now my local team is out in Cork County. I used to go to the odd LOI in Cork City, but have been more focused on dev working with kids; and again they don’t see the LOI as an aspiration.

There isn’t enough appetite to reform the LOI. It would take huge change in the FAI, and ceding of powers from clubs/schools and a number of guys who put more emphasis on control of their own competitions. Won’t happen.

When you look at the GAA, there’s s natural progression tree. Same in rugby. It’s there for football here.

It is what it is. But we’re not alone. A mate of mine from the Netherlands moans about the politics in Dutch football and there was up roar about their recent failings to qualify.

But yeah, this isn’t the forum for this. I probably cared more in the past, but coaching is what I tend to concentrate on now.

PTH2009

one think that has to be considered is Declan and his family and how they will deal with the aftermath of his decision

If as expected he opts for England than he is going to get tons of abuse from Irish fans, possibly a few irish players will give him a hard time on the pitch when playing against him

If he chooses us than happy days but its not looking like it now. Agents and suites can be a big influence esp when the cheque book comes out

SteM

PTH2009 wrote: »

If as expected he opts for England than he is going to get tons of abuse from Irish fans, possibly a few irish players will give him a hard time on the pitch when playing against him

He plays in the English league in front of English fans. When will he get abuse from Irish fans? On social media? Don't think that'll bother him. Sad fact is he won't come up against many Irish players in the league.

Faugheen

TheCitizen wrote: »

MD1990 wrote: »

He has had a change of heart. It happens. Wouldn't call him a disgrace.

It is well known we play horrible football & it is not all O'Neill's fault as it was the same under Trap.

Players need to show more courage on the ball.

Speak for yourself. I'm calling him a disgrace. With all the comments he has made previously and then appearing 3 times for the senior team, he is a disgrace to turn around and decide he needs to "deliberate" on it. It shouldn't drag on. MON should have come out today and said we're finished with this character.

Harry Arter and Scott Hogan must be disgraces by your logic so.

19 year old might change his mind on a decision he made when he was 15. What a horrible bastard alright.

Some people's anger is misdirected. Show this much passion against the FAI's complete refusal to develop our own players and this doesn't happen.

After Jack Grealish, alarm bells should have started ringing, by Liam Kelly we should have learned our lesson and now here we are, throwing ****e at a 19 year old English born kid because he might want to play for his home nation.

Do people seriously not realise how sad and quite pathetic that is? Irish football has major problems, Declan Rice playing for the country he was born in is way down the list, yet its all people want to talk about.

Zico !

This lad has taken the p1ss out of the FAI and the fans and deprived another lad of a few caps -no we dont want him back .It would be a massive mistake by him now to return

Faugheen

Zico ! wrote: »

This lad has taken the p1ss out of the FAI and the fans and deprived another lad of a few caps -no we dont want him back .It would be a massive mistake by him now to return

So are the umpteen English-born players we've had to convince to play for us, meaning the FAI haven't invested properly in football here.

I'll say it again. Harry Arter and Scott Hogan had to think about playing for us, Hogan in particular. Should they be thrown to the wolves as well? It's absolute bollocks logic.

Say on the off chance he does decide to stay. Are you going to boo him at the Aviva? Will you f*ck.

If he is genuinely thinking about it, the 'best fans in the world' have made up his mind for him with their over-the-top reaction.

He was 14/15 when he made up his mind to play for us. Shame on him when the country he was born in and lived in all his life come calling and his head gets turned.

Zico !

He wont be playing for us again -I wouldnt like to see him back with us.He has devalued the green jersey with this crap the second England called off he went without a care in the world.

ebbsy

Sure would'nt he have whatever skill he has battered out of him in the Irish setup ?

Unwatchable we are.

Faugheen

Zico ! wrote: »

He wont be playing for us again -I wouldnt like to see him back with us.He has devalued the green jersey with this crap the second England called off he went without a care in the world.

So would you not want Harry Arter or Scott Hogan to never play with us again?

You seem to be ignoring this point over and over.

The green jersey was devalued a long time ago and it’s nothing to do with Declan Rice, so spare me the passion for a few minutes.

If you give so much of a ****e about the green jersey then you’d be asking why we have to rely on players picking us over their home country and not throwing vitriol at a kid who changed his mind.

As the question is ing asked, frankly I couldn't care that much for Arter, who certainly dragged his feet.

And I'd be happy if Hogan never makes a team. It took him 3 years. It was a complete joke. How definitely definitely definitely definitely sure did he have too be that England would never call before he grudgingly settled for us?

championc

To play senior friendly for Ireland, would Rice therefore be holding an Irish passport ?

ebbsy

championc wrote: »

To play senior friendly for Ireland, would Rice therefore be holding an Irish passport ?

No idea.

But if it's anything like the rugby a South African one will do.

Niles Crane

Faugheen wrote: »

So are the umpteen English-born players we've had to convince to play for us, meaning the FAI haven't invested properly in football here.

I'll say it again. Harry Arter and Scott Hogan had to think about playing for us, Hogan in particular. Should they be thrown to the wolves as well? It's absolute bollocks logic.

Say on the off chance he does decide to stay. Are you going to boo him at the Aviva? Will you f*ck.

If he is genuinely thinking about it, the 'best fans in the world' have made up his mind for him with their over-the-top reaction.

He was 14/15 when he made up his mind to play for us. Shame on him when the country he was born in and lived in all his life come calling and his head gets turned.

Yes.If the player has to think about it then we shouldn't be bothering with them.

Faugheen

Niles Crane wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

So are the umpteen English-born players we've had to convince to play for us, meaning the FAI haven't invested properly in football here.

I'll say it again. Harry Arter and Scott Hogan had to think about playing for us, Hogan in particular. Should they be thrown to the wolves as well? It's absolute bollocks logic.

Say on the off chance he does decide to stay. Are you going to boo him at the Aviva? Will you f*ck.

If he is genuinely thinking about it, the 'best fans in the world' have made up his mind for him with their over-the-top reaction.

He was 14/15 when he made up his mind to play for us. Shame on him when the country he was born in and lived in all his life come calling and his head gets turned.

Yes.If the player has to think about it then we shouldn't be bothering with them.

I'm looking forward to your protests about them so.

Oh wait..

Why are we bothering with them? Because the FAI can't develop Irish players here.

That's the root of the problem, not Declan Rice, so aim your anger and 'pashún' at them instead of a 19 year old kid who might want to play for the country he was born in (I mean, how f*cking dare he).