2000 Ducato, 5th gear.

Nekarsulm

So while in France, 5th gear has started playing up in out 2000 Ducati based MH.
Will pop out of gear when you let out the clutch.
Try it again, and it might stay in.

Syncro rings, cable adjustment or rubber mounts wearing?
Heading for the boat now, so will change oil when home and see what comes out.
It's a 2.8 turbo intercooler with 108k km on the clock.

Probably syncro's.
It this a box out job, or can you work from the end cover?
Cheers in advance!

autumnalcore

You just need to remove end cover to change it kit is €350 from axel augustin in germany. Box will likely have swarf in it so full fluid change and magnetic plug might be a good idea. Probably get a used box for the same amount of cash. Yours might have failed due to insufficient lubrication. Fiat revised the oil quantity upwards for some of those boxes to ensure sufficient lubrication of 5th.

Nekarsulm

Thanks!
I might just drop the oil when we land in Rosslaire, save it from another 180 miles with the grounds and swarf .
I know 5th was a bit of a problem in the Ducato, but 60 thousand miles seems low.

autumnalcore

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Thanks!
I might just drop the oil when we land in Rosslaire, save it from another 180 miles with the grounds and swarf .
I know 5th was a bit of a problem in the Ducato, but 60 thousand miles seems low.

Is it 2.8 idtd. Measure what comes out should be about 2.7liters for the 2.8 idtd. Think the original fill recommendation that caused problems for some people was 2.1liters.

Its worth ckeaning and greasing the pivot on the shaft on the gearbox too, its usually rusty dnd stiff, makes the change much easier.

autumnalcore

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Thanks!
I might just drop the oil when we land in Rosslaire, save it from another 180 miles with the grounds and swarf .
I know 5th was a bit of a problem in the Ducato, but 60 thousand miles seems low.

Is it 2.8 idtd. Measure what comes out should be about 2.7liters for the 2.8 idtd. Think the original fill recommendation that caused problems for some people was 2.1liters.

Its worth cleaning and greasing the pivot on the shaft on the gearbox too, its usually rusty and stiff, makes the change much easier. Make sure if you get a gl5 oil its gl4 compatible some of the older ducato boxes had bronze parts that were damaged by gl5 additives.

Nekarsulm

So an update on my 5th gear problem.
There is a Fiat dealership not too far away (Mohill) that is also a Fiat Commercial dealer.
Rang yesterday, and he got back today with prices.

The 5th gear syncronizer kit from Fiat is 440 euro, including vat.
He emailed me a copy of whats included, attached below.
Will go with Axel Agustin if their price includes vat and has the same parts.

Flipperdipper

I had a similar problem with a '99 Ducato a few years ago. Some bits off the 5th gear did some damage to other gears and I ended up paying €2000 for parts and labour. Not a happy camper.:(

niloc1951

See HERE, full kit for £251.98, that's about €280 at the current exchange rate.

Nekarsulm

niloc1951 wrote: »

See HERE, full kit for £251.98, that's about €280 at the current exchange rate.

Super stuff! Thats some saving over the main franchise.

autumnalcore

Nekarsulm wrote: »

niloc1951 wrote: »

See HERE, full kit for £251.98, that's about €280 at the current exchange rate.

Super stuff! Thats some saving over the main franchise.

Thats for M5GT gearbox the part you posted above is for MLGU gearbox.

niloc1951

autumnalcore wrote: »

Thats for M5GT gearbox the part you posted above is for MLGU gearbox.

I might be wrong but isn't the MLGU gearbox 2002 >2006 and has 5th. gear properly within the main box and not prone to fail, unlike the 1994 >2001 M5GT box where it was an afterthought outside the main box and only splash lubricated.

autumnalcore

niloc1951 wrote: »

I might be wrong but isn't the MLGU gearbox 2002 >2006 and has 5th. gear properly within the main box and not prone to fail, unlike the 1994 >2001 M5GT box where it was an afterthought outside the main box and only splash lubricated.

No MLGU 5th is still in outer casing, box has hydraulic clutch, different casings, different main shaft and counter shaft, different gears and syncros, better bearings, its basically the same box as the JTD one to 2006. Thats not to say the MG5T 5th won't fit but I wouldn't buy without assurances that it does.

Would need nekarsulms VIN to be sure what box is in it a 2000 registered van could easily be on a 99 or even 98 chassis.

Nekarsulm

autumnalcore wrote: »

No MLGU 5th is still in outer casing, box has hydraulic clutch, different casings, different main shaft and counter shaft, different gears and syncros, better bearings, its basically the same box as the JTD one to 2006. Thats not to say the MG5T 5th won't fit but I wouldn't buy without assurances that it does.

Would need nekarsulms VIN to be sure what box is in it a 2000 registered van could easily be on a 99 or even 98 chassis.

Hi autumnalcore, that screenshot from the parts list (emailed from dealer) is what came up when he entered my campers vin into the computer.

autumnalcore

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Hi autumnalcore, that screenshot from the parts list (emailed from dealer) is what came up when he entered my campers vin into the computer.

Screenshot was confusing as partly cut off thought it said it was MLGU box but I can see now it says C5090 which is pre MLGU.

Your chassis was built October 1998 so not MLGU gearbox the part numbers for 5th gear and syncroniser according to Keyper are

9463263088 KIT GEARS, 5 VEL 58X35. 5 gear
9463263388 SYNCHRONIZER, 5 VEL

The kit Niloc posted has the same synchroniser part number.

niloc1951

autumnalcore wrote: »

No MLGU 5th is still in outer casing, box has hydraulic clutch, different casings, different main shaft and counter shaft, different gears and syncros, better bearings, its basically the same box as the JTD one to 2006. Thats not to say the MG5T 5th won't fit but I wouldn't buy without assurances that it does.

Would need nekarsulms VIN to be sure what box is in it a 2000 registered van could easily be on a 99 or even 98 chassis.

I'm open to correction but AFAIK the MLGU box came into use in the revised 2002 > 2006 model, with significant alterations including reverse gear being in a different position at the gear lever.
One of the issues fixed was the premature failure of 5th.gear, a problem which plagued the pre-2002 models. Going on that basis, if Nekarsulm has suffered the fate of others it is likely its a pre-2002 MG5T box.

If time and space permits perhaps it's safest to remove the damaged 5th. for identification before ordering its replacement.

See HERE and HERE and HERE where the issuue has been discussed

autumnalcore

niloc1951 wrote: »

I'm open to correction but AFAIK the MLGU box came into use in the revised 2002 > 2006 model

Was available in the 230 model from 2000 or 2001 for the 2.8IDTD and 2.8JTD.

Nekarsulm

Can anyone tell me if the "nut" on the input shaft, which has 4 cut-outs (instead of a normal hex), is left or right hand thread?

Edit. Its a normal right-hand-thread, but its tight as hell, and the actual "nut" is fairly soft.
Going to make a tool to tighten it back on (or the new one, if one comes in the kit) out of a 28mm half inch drive socket.
Going to grind down the socket leaving 4 tabs standing proud to engage with the nut.