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Untrustworthy Estate Agent

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  • 27-08-2018 11:21pm
    #1
    Hillary.r
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭


    Myself and my husband have put an offer on a house. The house has been on the market for nearly 5 months with no previous offers.

    However as soon as we put an offer on the house there is suddenly 2 more bidders. The estate agent we are dealing with are know to be crooked (apparently done bad dealings with their own family too).

    The house is a repossessed house so the dealings are with the bank. We can't even check with the sellers if the EA is telling them about the offers.

    The house dead is being dealt with through Pepper Group.

    Has anyone ever gone above an EA head to a bank to ask them?


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    #2
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    This isn't unusual, if a house is on the market for months without any activity, buyers wait to see if seller gets desperate and sells at a low price. When a bid is made, they then have to bid as well or lose out.

    So many times over the years I have read about crooked agents and phantom bidders etc, not once ever has anyone been able to provide a shred of evidence for this, it's always "I think", "well known" and "someone told me".

    Op, when you as a buyer think an EA is "untrustworthy", just remember they don't work for you, they work for the seller, their job is to sell the property for the highest price possible. The only one who needs to trust the EA, is the seller.


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    #3
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    davo10 wrote: »
    ...

    So many times over the years I have read about crooked agents and phantom bidders etc, not once ever has anyone been able to provide a shred of evidence for this, it's always "I think", "well known" and "someone told me".
    ...

    I tested an EA once to see was a apartment getting no interest or were they just not offering it to people and it was the latter.

    Other than that haven't had a problem with ea.


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    #4
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Hillary.r wrote: »
    ....... The estate agent we are dealing with are know to be crooked (apparently done bad dealings with their own family too)....

    If it was me I'd just look for a different property.


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    #5
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Nevertheless what Davo10 says is correct. Obviously, if there have been a couple of people sniffing around the house and one puts in an offer, the EA will go to the others and tell them that if they are going to make an offer at all they need to do so now. So the first offer serves as a trigger which provokes more offers. In theory the EA could be inventing the other offers, but it would be a high-risk thing for him to do - it might lead to his only real offer dropping out or walking away. Essentially, he would be seeking to drive up his own commission by 2%, 3%, 5% or whatever, but risking 100% of his commission to do so. In general that's not a good bet from the EA's point of view.

    In any event, there's nothing you can do about it. Unless you have good reason to think that the other offers are bogus - and there's nothing in the OP to suggest that they are - then proceed on the basis that they are real. If you can't beat them without paying more than you think the house is worth, or more than you can afford to pay, then walk away. If you can, consider whether you want to up your offer.


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    #6
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    He's talking about price drops your talking about the EA being in contact with other interested parties we can't call bidders because they hadn't bid in 5 months.

    You've invented both situations because the op never mentioned either. Not that they can't happen but unlikely in this case.

    Had something happened op that would attract interest other than your bid?


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    #7
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    beauf wrote: »
    He's talking about price drops your talking about the EA being in contact with other interested parties we can't call bidders because they hadn't bid in 5 months.

    You've invented both situations because the op never mentioned either. Not that they can't happen but unlikely in this case.

    Had something happened op that would attract interest other than your bid?

    I've often called into EAs and asked to be kept informed about properties which have come to the market, without making a bid. I get a call when a bid is placed, wait a week or two to see if there are anymore, and then decide if I'm still interested at the price above the bid.

    When you posted earlier that the EA "wasn't offering it to people", do you mean he/she wasn't advertising it in office/online? Must admit, I've never been "offered" a property by an EA.


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    #8
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    beauf wrote: »
    He's talking about price drops your talking about the EA being in contact with other interested parties we can't call bidders because they hadn't bid in 5 months.

    You've invented both situations because the op never mentioned either. Not that they can't happen but unlikely in this case.

    Had something happened op that would attract interest other than your bid?
    The OP doesn't say anything about price drops. He says the house was on the market for five months with no offers but as soon has he put an offer in he was told of competing offers having been made. He obviously suspects that the competing offers are fictional, an attempt to get him to up his offer. I'm just pointing out that there's no reason to think the competing offers are fictional; it's not surprising that when he put in his offer, that flushed other potential buyers out and they put in their offers too.


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    #9
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    The OP doesn't say anything about price drops. ...

    I was referring to Dave10 implying price drops sparked bids...


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    #10
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    beauf wrote: »
    I was referring to Dave10 implying price drops sparked bids...

    Where did I imply that?


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    #11
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    davo10 wrote: »
    ... I get a call when a bid is placed, wait a week or two to see if there are anymore, and then decide if I'm still interested at the price above the bid.....

    If they don't inform you, you risk a property being sold without having the chance to bid. Which suggests your not really interested in a specific property, but speculating on investments that you can get a deal on.

    If a property sits for a long time without bids it unlikely to be that great an investment considering we're in the middle of a housing crisis. So you're unlikely to buy it anyway.

    I'm sure people do play the game like your suggesting. But I wouldn't have patience for an EA who played stupid games like that. That sounds like someone who will drag the process out forever.

    Which brings me back to life's to short to waste time on a property and EA that will drag it out to your disadvantage.


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    #12
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    davo10 wrote: »
    Where did I imply that?

    davo10 wrote: »
    ... buyers wait to see if seller gets desperate and sells at a low price. ...

    How do you know if a seller is going to sell at a low price. It's either price drops or considering low bids which is the same thing. It's activity by the seller that sparks a response.

    The op has suggested no activity. Perhaps there is and they haven't mentioned it yet

    It unlikely to get 3 bids at the same time without a trigger event.


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    #13
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    beauf wrote: »
    If they don't inform you, you risk a property being sold without having the chance to bid. Which suggests your not really interested in a specific property, but speculating on investments that you can get a deal on.

    If a property sits for a long time without bids it unlikely to be that great an investment considering we're in the middle of a housing crisis. So you're unlikely to buy it anyway.

    I'm sure people do play the game like your suggesting. But I wouldn't have patience for an EA who played stupid games like that. That sounds like someone who will drag the process out forever.

    Which brings me back to life's to short to waste time on a property and EA that will drag it out to your disadvantage.

    You are quite right, it would be investment properties, and I would indeed only be interested in buying if the price was right. Properties can often sit for a long time because the seller has an over optimistic view of what it is worth, buyers sometimes wait to see if it goes down. Once a potential buyer makes a bid, the race is on, the market is now setting the price, not the seller nor the EA.

    There is a subtle difference between "low price" and "lower price". The first is where it sells below what someone thinks it is worth, the second is where the seller drops the price. The first of course is subjective, what might seem good value to one person may not to another, the second is an actual action.


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    #14
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    davo10 wrote: »
    You are quite right, it would be investment properties, and I would indeed only be interested in buying if the price was right. Properties can often sit for a long time because the seller has an over optimistic view of what it is worth, buyers sometimes wait to see if it goes down. Once a potential buyer makes a bid, the race is on, the market is now setting the price, not the seller nor the EA.

    Depends if it's low balling the EA and seller might dismiss the bidder as a time waster. They'll just ignore them.


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    #15
    stormthecastle
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭stormthecastle


    Estate agents have to legally keep a record of all bids. As for viewing those bids I'm not sure is that open to all bidders but some do that.

    I presume you have asked for details of the other bidder, first time buyer, mortgage approved, chain etc?


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    #16
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    davo10 wrote: »
    ...There is a subtle difference between "low price" and "lower price". The first is where it sells below what someone thinks it is worth, the second is where the seller drops the price. The first of course is subjective, what might seem good value to one person may not to another, the second is an actual action...

    In not sure how waiting for it to sell, is an indicator of when to bid. It's a bit late then. Unless you are talking about gazumping (spelling?)


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    #17
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    beauf wrote: »
    Depends if it's low balling the EA and seller might dismiss the bidder as a time waster. They'll just ignore them.

    Are you reading the right thread? There has been no mention by the op or anyone else about low ball offers nor ignoring bidders, where are you getting this from?


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    #18
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    davo10 wrote: »
    You are quite right, it would be investment properties, and I would indeed only be interested in buying if the price was right. ....

    You're playing a different game to the op and the EA would likely know you are a serious bidder. Of course the op should be aware they are competing against investors like yourself. The EA could be working any number of angles .


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    #19
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    davo10 wrote: »
    Are you reading the right thread? There has been no mention by the op or anyone else about low ball offers nor ignoring bidders, where are you getting this from?

    I quoted it...
    davo10 wrote: »
    ... Properties can often sit for a long time because the seller has an over optimistic view of what it is worth, buyers sometimes wait to see if it goes down. Once a potential buyer makes a bid, the race is on, the market is now setting the price, not the seller nor the EA...

    This is generic advice, truisms etc not solely about the op situation.

    A price might not be realistic. But also a bid may not be realistic either.


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    #20
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    beauf wrote: »
    I quoted it...



    This is generic advice, truisms etc not solely about the op situation.

    A price might not be realistic. But also a bid may not be realistic either.

    But the op has bid, is the price/bid not realistic?


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    #21
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    davo10 wrote: »
    But the op has bid, is the price/bid not realistic?

    I assume it is because there have been other bids. Even if they are fake created by the EA it shows the EA thinks the op bid is worthy of a response. Which shows the op are in the ball park of a price that will be accepted at least.


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    #22
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    stormthecastle wrote: »
    Estate agents have to legally keep a record of all bids. As for viewing those bids I'm not sure is that open to all bidders but some do that.

    I presume you have asked for details of the other bidder, first time buyer, mortgage approved, chain etc?

    Worth asking anyway.


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    #23
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    beauf wrote: »
    I assume it is because there have been other bids. Even if they are fake created by the EA it shows the EA thinks the op bid is worthy of a response. Which shows the op are in the ball park of a price that will be accepted at least.

    Beauf, you should go back and read the op, the op was the one who placed the bid, the others followed.


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    #24
    KevinCavan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 612 ✭✭✭KevinCavan


    It’s an industry that should be better regulated for sure. Bids should be viewable in an online format, there should be a lot more transparency. People should possibly be given an online I.d. and pin by the state for putting in bids. I wouldn’t mind if I was bidding against username Freddy Flintstone online if I knew there was a real person behind the I.d. A p.p.s. could be linked to an online I.d. for official purposes, but obviously other bidders wouldn’t know who was behind the bidding.


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    #25
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭blue note


    I had a similar experience on a house recently, although over a shorter time frame. We thought it odd that no-one had bid on it and threw down a relatively low offer. That sat for a week and then another bidder who had viewed it a few times came in. In my opinion, she was clearly hoping to give the seller the impression that interest in the property was low so held off on bidding.

    Now as regards untrustworthy estate agents, the one we dealt with on the previous place we bid on was highly untrustworthy (as well as downright unpleasant to deal with). At the least important level of untrustworthiness – we viewed a place and heard someone ask what direction the garden was facing. He said west. It was a sunny day and it couldn’t have been more clear that it wasn’t west. I checked on google maps to be sure and it was north east. We started bidding on a property he showed us and would confirm all of our bids by e-mail. He never once e-mailed back confirmation of receipt. After the first bid we rang to make sure he received it and asked for an e-mail confirmation, but still we could only get it over the phone. We were first time buyers and bidding at a very high price point for first time buyers (6-700k). Apparently one of the other bidders were first time buyers too. It’s possible, but I doubt it to be honest. If I’d found him trustworthy I’d have accepted it, but I wouldn’t believe a word that came out of his mouth.

    Up to that point it was more annoying stuff than anything. But then one Friday afternoon he phoned my girlfriend requesting our best and final offer. She came home annoyed as she’d never heard of this. I had and we said fine we’d submit another bid on Monday. So on Monday all three bidders submitted new bids, two were the same and one was a grand higher. He rang us to say that there was a bid in a thousand higher than us, would we like to submit our best and final offer? We said you had requested best and final on Friday and he flat out denied that was the case. We didn’t bid again, partly because we just didn’t trust him. We were happy enough with how high we went, but were nervous of dealing with him further.

    I’m still tempted to report him after we move into a new place but in reality I’ve pretty much moved on from him already.


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    #26
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    davo10 wrote: »
    But the op has bid, is the price/bid not realistic?

    beauf wrote: »
    I assume it is because there have been other bids. Even if they are fake created by the EA it shows the EA thinks the op bid is worthy of a response. Which shows the op are in the ball park of a price that will be accepted at least.

    davo10 wrote: »
    Beauf, you should go back and read the op, the op was the one who placed the bid, the others followed.

    I never suggested otherwise...
    I simply said if the OP made a bid and THEN others bid, even if they were fake bids by the EA. It means the OP bid was in range of an acceptable price.
    If the OP was low-balling (which was your specific question as quoted above) then they wouldn't have bothered with counter bids.

    Lets not multi quote the whole thread out of context. Its too confusing. I've not disagreed with you, I just pointed out other possibilities.


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    #27
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭blue note


    davo10 wrote: »
    Op, when you as a buyer think an EA is "untrustworthy", just remember they don't work for you, they work for the seller, their job is to sell the property for the highest price possible. The only one who needs to trust the EA, is the seller.

    Just on this, the buyers need to be mindful that the estate agent is working for the seller, not them. However, they should be able to assume the estate agent to be honest.


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    #28
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    davo10 wrote: »
    I've often called into EAs and asked to be kept informed about properties which have come to the market, without making a bid. I get a call when a bid is placed, wait a week or two to see if there are anymore, and then decide if I'm still interested at the price above the bid.

    When you posted earlier that the EA "wasn't offering it to people", do you mean he/she wasn't advertising it in office/online? Must admit, I've never been "offered" a property by an EA.

    I dealt with a seller who subsequently gave it to an EA.
    The EA phoned me saying he wouldn't put it on the market if I offered asking.
    I walked away.
    Thing is , the seller would have gotten more from me direct after fees were taken out.


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