Greatest kerry person that has ever lived.

feargale

The Seanachaí.

JayZeus

JayZeus wrote: »

...‘self sacrifice’ easy. And even then, all he had to do was crawl outside of the tent...
Hard to see how you’d even contemplate Crean as a lesser man than a fella who chose to slip out...and lay down to die.

His self sacrifice was easy? He only slipped outside the tent and lay down? 'Twas only a short crawl?

I think we have suffering views on the ultimate sacrifice of Captain Oates.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

His self sacrifice was easy? He only slipped outside the tent and lay down? 'Twas only a short crawl?

I think we have suffering views on the ultimate sacrifice of Captain Oates.

Yeah, maybe we do. Anyway, I don't think Oates was a Kerryman, so let's leave it there.

Rows Grower

feargale wrote: »

The Seanachaí.

A noble compromise candidate.

Sheep breeder

What about Micko, done so much for football throughout the country

Radio5

Sr. Consilio Fitzgerald, founder of Cuan Mhuire, helping those with addiction.

Defunkd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can't say I fully get the whole Crean thing that has really pushed on in the last decade or 2. Obviously very admirable, very strong and well able to take orders. But just think on one hand Thomas Ashe sacrificed more personally, and Daniel O'Connell achieved more for the greater number.

I agree. A feat of endurance no doubt but i wouldn't rate it as an event of real importance. The voyage was undertaken for the glory of the empire and not for the advancement or betterment of humanity. The ability to put yourself in dangerous conditions and not die isn't a cause for celebrations imo.


One of the guys who made it back had a huge boil on his ass; a pint and a half of stinking pus was drained from it.

Rows Grower

JayZeus wrote: »

Yeah, maybe we do. Anyway, I don't think Oates was a Kerryman, so let's leave it there.

Lest we forget, Oates wasn't mentioned as a candidate for being the greatest Kerryman ever.

Check post 30.

Defunkd

Defunkd wrote: »

I agree. A feat of endurance no doubt but i wouldn't rate it as an event of real importance. The voyage was undertaken for the glory of the empire and not for the advancement or betterment of humanity. The ability to put yourself in dangerous conditions and not die isn't a cause for celebrations imo.

After 2500km, in arctic conditions, he set out alone with no more than a handful of biscuits and chocolate, to make a 56km ‘dash’ in 18 hours for the purpose of saving his friends life. No stove, no skis, no sleeping bag. Alone, totally alone of the Ross shelf. It would have been the stuff of nightmares to almost any other man.

I’ve spent a 10 hour pitch black night on a mountain that was completely covered in snow, up to my chest in it in most places, colder than I’ve ever felt in my life, searching for two lost mountaineers. I had a hot dinner that evening before the pager went off, I was wearing fresh, clean and dry modern garments, had a warm flask and a GPS. It was thoroughly exhausting. I can’t even begin to imagine how he managed it. He didn’t do it for glory. That man had a humility which is alien to us today. He never gave an interview and never spoke of his ‘exploits’.

The british empire has SFA to do with Tom Creans fine character. Belittling what he did in that manner is poor form.

Rows Grower

Rows Grower wrote: »

Lest we forget, Oates wasn't mentioned as a candidate for being the greatest Kerryman ever.

Check post 30.

Ah sure, I know that. Just a bit irritated at people trying to knock Crean using whataboutery. I’m not saying he should be revered, but should we not all be able to acknowledge he was more than just a good fella who did his bit. The act we think of when Crean comes up was one of greatness, but it was far from exceptional where he’s concerned. The expedition party owed a great debt of gratitude to Crean for their very survival by the time their rescue was effected.

A fine Kerryman. A great man. A role model then and now. It’s okay to say that. We don’t always have to pick at everyone who did or does things we couldn’t. It’s a crappy trait some of us exhibit.

JayZeus

JayZeus wrote: »

Belittling what he did in that manner is poor form.

I would have thought saying someone who gave up his life had an "easy" decision and he only "slipped out and lay down" was the epitome of belittling, no?

JayZeus

JayZeus wrote: »

We don’t always have to pick at everyone who did or does things we couldn’t. It’s a crappy trait some of us exhibit.

You didn't so much as pick at Oates as pretty much dismiss what he did with contempt.

I wouldn't say "it's a crappy trait", you are entitled to your opinion.

Defunkd

JayZeus wrote: »

After 2500km, in arctic conditions, he set out alone with no more than a handful of biscuits and chocolate, to make a 56km ‘dash’ in 18 hours for the purpose of saving his friends life. No stove, no skis, no sleeping bag. Alone, totally alone of the Ross shelf. It would have been the stuff of nightmares to almost any other man.

I’ve spent a 10 hour pitch black night on a mountain that was completely covered in snow, up to my chest in it in most places, colder than I’ve ever felt in my life, searching for two lost mountaineers. I had a hot dinner that evening before the pager went off, I was wearing fresh, clean and dry modern garments, had a warm flask and a GPS. It was thoroughly exhausting. I can’t even begin to imagine how he managed it. He didn’t do it for glory. That man had a humility which is alien to us today. He never gave an interview and never spoke of his ‘exploits’.

The british empire has SFA to do with Tom Creans fine character. Belittling what he did in that manner is poor form.

I'm familiar with the expedition, thank you, but it was undertaken for the glory of the Empire.
Any of the lads that helped lay the transatlantic cable at Waterville would be more deserving of the title than Tom or any of those adventurers imo. The cable served humanity at least. Undertaking a dangerous mission for the accolade of being the first to get there and return alive doesn't strike me as 'great'.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You didn't so much as pick at Oates as pretty much dismiss what he did with contempt.

I wouldn't say "it's a crappy trait", you are entitled to your opinion.

Oates was dying. He knew it and rather than wait for his inevitable end, in excruciating pain, while his companion explorers did the ‘honorable’ thing and refused to leave him behind, he slipped out and let the cold not only numb the pain but quickly end his life. That’s the heros tale.

To look at the facts, that is to say he killed himself (if we accept the account and don’t want to consider that he may well have been left behind), is not belittling the man. However, to suggest that Oates made some sort of ultimate, selfless sacrifice is ignoring the fact that he and his companions knew very well that he wasn’t going to survive. Frostbiten, gangrenous leg, no possibility of amputation... Starving and exhausted companions...

Crean crossed incredibly difficult terrain while cold, hungry and exhausted at a pace that a healthy and fit man would rightly be applauded for and had to be ordered to stay instead of going back with the rescue party. When it was time to set to sea in a small lifeboat to go and get help, he was of course the one to step up, once again.

Crean was always at the front of the line to put himself in danger when the wellbeing and ultimate survival of his party depended on it. He could have been self serving, as most would be, but his personal motives never seem to have got in the way of the common good and wellbeing of his companions. Scott also benefitted greatly from Creans presence on his expeditions.

He sought no accolades, entertained no notions about himself after their return home and lived a quiet life with his family once the job was done. He was his own man, driven by whatever it was to do extraordinary things, to the good fortune of those around him.

Defunkd

Defunkd wrote: »

I'm familiar with the expedition, thank you, but it was undertaken for the glory of the Empire.
Any of the lads that helped lay the transatlantic cable at Waterville would be more deserving of the title than Tom or any of those adventurers imo. The cable served humanity at least. Undertaking a dangerous mission for the accolade of being the first to get there and return alive doesn't strike me as 'great'.

Others may not be familiar. As to greatness, I suggest you look at the man, not the mission.

JayZeus

JayZeus wrote: »

Oates was dying. He knew it and rather than wait for his inevitable end, in excruciating pain, while his companion explorers did the ‘honorable’ thing and refused to leave him behind, he slipped out and let the cold not only numb the pain but quickly end his life. That’s the heros tale.

To look at the facts, that is to say he killed himself (if we accept the account and don’t want to consider that he may well have been left behind), is not belittling the man. However, to suggest that Oates made some sort of ultimate, selfless sacrifice is ignoring the fact that he and his companions knew very well that he wasn’t going to survive. Frostbiten, gangrenous leg, no possibility of amputation... Starving and exhausted companions...

Again with the picking at the legacy of Oates.

The irony of your "crappy trait some of us exhibit" comment is wonderful. Post after post having a go at him, though at least you toned down the whole "easy decision, just popped out of his tent and went for a lie down" angle.

I certainly would never dismiss Crean's achievement as easy. As I said very admirable and very strong. Just for me not in the same self sacrifice bracket as Ashe (and no, don't say "easy decision, just lay down and stopped eating") nor did he achieve so much for so many as O'Connell.

I’ll pick at Oates legacy alright:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/oct/14/books.artsandhumanities

You won’t read that kind of thing about Tom Crean.

demanufactured

Aonghus O'MacGillyguddy Haoghugean

JayZeus

JayZeus wrote: »

We don’t always have to pick at everyone who did or does things we couldn’t. It’s a crappy trait some of us exhibit.

JayZeus wrote: »

I’ll pick at Oates legacy alright...

I think we can end this particular debate on your own quotes...

Avatar MIA

There's a film in Crean's actions for sure, but this thread was answered by the OP. Daniel it is without doubt.

Still, think we'll see a film about TC first. I'd watch it.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think we can end this particular debate on your own quotes...

I love the way you just ignore the details there. He fathered a child with a 12 year old girl. That’s deplorable stuff. That is part of his legacy and you’re damned right I’ll pick on it.

You wouldn’t?

JayZeus

JayZeus wrote: »

I love the way you just ignore the details there. He fathered a child with a 12 year old girl. That’s deplorable stuff. That is part of his legacy and you’re damned right I’ll pick on it.

You wouldn’t?

Congratulations, you scoured the internet and found an allegation.

And obviously I condone sex with children. You got me.

Now, can we draw a line and move on? Or you could start an "I hate Captain Oates" thread somewhere?

mikeymouse

Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh
The BBC wanted him , but couldn't pronounce his name!

blueskys

Mike Quill, not well known here but a legend in NYC union circles.
A man way ahead of his time and someone who should be better known here

https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/mike-quill-the-irishman-martin-luther-king-described-as-a-man-the-ages-will-remember-378101.html

Defunkd

JayZeus wrote: »

Others may not be familiar. As to greatness, I suggest you look at the man, not the mission.

I think you need to remember that this is only an internet poll and chill out.

Defunkd

Defunkd wrote: »

I think you need to remember that this is only an internet poll and chill out.

I’m well aware of it. We’re all entitled to our own opinions and nobody says we have to agree.

KevRossi

i have the greatest admiration for Tom Crean and he's a shining example of what people should be like.

But for Kerry, Daniel O'Connell has to win hands down. He not only did an enormous amount for this country, but used peaceful methods to do so. I've no doubt there are plenty of holes that couls be picked in his legacy, but overall, he is outstanding.

When you consider he could have lived a very comfortable life as one of the landed gentry, it makes his achievements that bit better.

Avatar MIA

Avatar MIA wrote: »

There's a film in Crean's actions for sure, but this thread was answered by the OP. Daniel it is without doubt.

Inspired profoundly important figures like Gandhi and Martin Luther King, labelled by Gladstone as the greatest leader ever.

john9876

Could someone explain in very simple language what exactly Daniel O'Connell actually did?

MD1983

Patsy MacSweeny