EU to recommend abolishing DST

mollser

troyzer wrote: »

You can call BS all you want, it was considerably brighter on the way in this morning after the change than last week. I'm not suggesting it was broad daylight, but it was substantially brighter which makes it easier.

Who cares if you have an extra hour in the evening? What are you going to do with it? It's cold and miserable and as you've pointed out already, for most people who are off at 5-6 it's still going to be dark when you get home anyway.

Exactly.

I really think this is another social media influenced catastrophe like Brexit and Trump. Ask anyone who was around in the 60's when this was tried before (there are plenty of them), and it was horrendous by all accounts. People need to engage the brain on this one.

facehugger99

mollser wrote: »

Exactly.

I really think this is another social media influenced catastrophe like Brexit and Trump. Ask anyone who was around in the 60's when this was tried before (there are plenty of them), and it was horrendous by all accounts. People need to engage the brain on this one.

I guess the only explanation for people having a preference for brighter evenings is that they're stupid. :rolleyes:

Marhay70

mollser wrote: »

Exactly.

I really think this is another social media influenced catastrophe like Brexit and Trump. Ask anyone who was around in the 60's when this was tried before (there are plenty of them), and it was horrendous by all accounts. People need to engage the brain on this one.

I was around the last time the clocks were fixed and I don't remember it being horrendous. Once again we were led by the nose by the Brits into changing back, due to a lobby by farmers in Scotland and Northern England

atticu

I have never heard a good reason to change the clocks.

And I don’t think I ever will, because there is no good reason.

mollser

atticu wrote: »

I have never heard a good reason to change the clocks.

And I don’t think I ever will, because there is no good reason.

err, we've given plenty up above, but you just don't want to know i guess!

Akrasia

Just an interesting chart for your location. Civil twilight is when you have enough light to clearly distinguish terrestrial objects under good atmospheric conditions (when the sky is clear)

Today where I am, civil twilight was 06:53 am and in the evening it ends at 17:45

This is the last usable light, so kids out playing would have to come in around 17:45 (they usually push it a few extra minutes)

on the shortest day of the year official Sunrise is at 08:46 and civil twilight starts at 08:04 and sunset is 16:21 but twilight ends at 17:03

So even on the shortest day of the year as it stands, most people would be commuting to work/school in twilight but most people would be travelling home from work in pitch darkness
If we kept summertime, on the 21st of december, most people would be commuting to work in darkness but commuting home in either daylight or twilight. (depending on whether they finish at 5pm or 6pm)

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/ireland/ennis?month=10&year=2018

This is based on ennis. In Dublin, sunrise is 10 minutes earlier

Akrasia

Marhay70 wrote: »

I was around the last time the clocks were fixed and I don't remember it being horrendous. Once again we were led by the nose by the Brits into changing back, due to a lobby by farmers in Scotland and Northern England

It's stupid that self employed farmers who can set their own working hours should have any say over what time people who work in set hours employment have to get up at.

If the farmers need sunlight in the morning, they can get up at dawn, whatever time that says on their clock

Franz Von Peppercorn

Akrasia wrote: »

The actual change itself is hugely disruptive to a lot of people. Anyone with small children has their sleep pattern disrupted for a week twice a year. It takes them ages to get used to waking up and going to sleep at the right times.

People who claim they never see any daylight because they're an office worker. Do you not get a lunch break? Go for a walk on your lunch hour. It's not that hard.

Having an artificial time change twice a year is a pain in the ass.

Is it that hard to get them to stay up an extra hour, or go to sleep an hour earlier? How do you ever travel outside of Ireland or the UK if so.

The EU has come up with a bad solution here. The change is a good idea but winter time should be limited to 3 months.

Franz Von Peppercorn

mollser wrote: »

Exactly.

I really think this is another social media influenced catastrophe like Brexit and Trump. Ask anyone who was around in the 60's when this was tried before (there are plenty of them), and it was horrendous by all accounts. People need to engage the brain on this one.

The 60's was summer time all year round wasn't it?

prunudo

I guess the people who have an issue with adjusting their body clocks at end of October and March must never go on holidays to country's outside gmt/bst!

mollser

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The 60's was summer time all year round wasn't it?

Yeah, and the dark mornings for 4 months of the year really got people down. As I say, there are no bright evenings in winter no matter what you do.

But as it is now at least we retain some semblance of light in the morning for much of the winter, which is important for lots of reasons, not least of all mental health.

It was a very depressing winter by all accounts.

atticu

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Is it that hard to get them to stay up an extra hour, or go to sleep an hour earlier? How do you ever travel outside of Ireland or the UK if so.

The EU has come up with a bad solution here. The change is a good idea but winter time should be limited to 3 months.

When I travel I don’t take my pets with me.

How do you explain the changing of the clocks to them?

facehugger99

I presume there will be some form of consultation on this, because the overwhelming majority of working people I've spoken to would prefer Summertime all year round.

atticu

jvan wrote: »

I guess the people who have an issue with adjusting their body clocks at end of October and March must never go on holidays to country's outside gmt/bst!

Are you trying to imply that the sun doesn’t rise and set at different times in different locations?

Chips Lovell

facehugger99 wrote: »

I presume there will be some form of consultation on this, because the overwhelming majority of working people I've spoken to would prefer Summertime all year round.

There was.

VinLieger

mollser wrote: »

Yeah, and the dark mornings for 4 months of the year really got people down. As I say, there are no bright evenings in winter no matter what you do.

But as it is now at least we retain some semblance of light in the morning for much of the winter, which is important for lots of reasons, not least of all mental health.

It was a very depressing winter by all accounts.

People will get over it like they do in other countries where its darker for far longer.


Why would we choose to lose an hour of daylight in the summer for what really only amounts to a couple of weeks more daylight in the morning during the winter, by early december it will be dark at 8 am again anyway and the schoolkids argument has been roundly put to bed as nonsense

facehugger99

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

There was.

There wasn't.

That consultation was on whether we should stop changing the clocks not on which time we should stick with.

atticu

mollser wrote: »

Yeah, and the dark mornings for 4 months of the year really got people down. As I say, there are no bright evenings in winter no matter what you do.

But as it is now at least we retain some semblance of light in the morning for much of the winter, which is important for lots of reasons, not least of all mental health.

It was a very depressing winter by all accounts.

Why do you insist on contradicting yourself?

You say that you can’t have bright evening, no matter what you do, but you can have bright mornings.

You can have one or the other.

VinLieger

facehugger99 wrote: »

There wasn't.

That consultation was on whether we should stop changing the clocks not on which time we should stick with.

If we had a public consultation here id honestly be afraid of the clueless "think of the children" busy bodies shouting the loudest and getting stuck with winter time.


Personally having it get dark at 9pm during the summer is a far more depressing possibility than a few weeks of dark mornings during the winter

dxhound2005

facehugger99 wrote: »

I presume there will be some form of consultation on this, because the overwhelming majority of working people I've spoken to would prefer Summertime all year round.

See Post #353.

seamus

As far as I can tell the overwhelming preference on this is to keep summertime.

I know a few people are somewhat aghast at the idea that it would still be dark going into work during the winter, but I think this is fairly standard anyway. The majority of people seem happy to trade morning light for evening light.

Afaik, the road safety data internationally also suggests that the evening rush is the more dangerous time on the roads; even during daylight. So road safety is improved by moving the daylight from morning to evening.

prunudo

atticu wrote: »

Are you trying to imply that the sun doesn’t rise and set at different times in different locations?

Of course it rises/sets at differnet times, depends on time zone and latitude. I'm implying people are quick enough to adjust their body clocks when they go on holidays to other time zones or even at the weekend when they can lie in or stay up later. But god forbid you might have to change your routine for a few days at the end of October and March.

This thread is going around in circles, it will come down to personal circumstances, there are people who want bright mornings and those that want bright evenings.
As I said earlier for all the people who want all year summertime, notice how dark the mornings are in December and January, add an hour and see if thats really what you want. Even in December and January it will be dark when you come home so it isn't the magic solution its portrayed to be.

Ideal scenario would be to move the weekends that the hour changes to sometime in November and February so to reduce winter time but afaik this isn't on the agenda.

Chips Lovell

facehugger99 wrote: »

There wasn't.

That consultation was on whether we should stop changing the clocks not on which time we should stick with.

No. Admittedly it wasn't clear from the fist link but they also asked what people would prefer:

Answers show that the overall preferred option is permanent summertime as opposed to permanent wintertime. 2 529 000 of all respondents (56 %) would prefer permanent summertime and 1 648 000 of respondents (36 %) would be in favour of permanent standard (winter) time, if the bi-annual time switch were to be abolished. 377 000 respondents (8 %) have no opinion on
this matter.

facehugger99

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

No. Admittedly it wasn't clear from the fist link but they also asked what people would prefer:

Fair enough, apologies- I did not see that in the links.

Interesting - appears to be about 70% in Ireland in favour of permanent Summertime and only 20% for Wintertime. I would have thought it would have been even more pronounced tbh. I've literally never met a 'real' person who would prefer Wintertime

atticu

jvan wrote: »

Of course it rises/sets at differnet times, depends on time zone and latitude. I'm implying people are quick enough to adjust their body clocks when they go on holidays to other time zones or even at the weekend when they can lie in or stay up later. But god forbid you might have to change your routine for a few days at the end of October and March.

This thread is going around in circles, it will come down to personal circumstances, there are people who want bright mornings and those that want bright evenings.
As I said earlier for all the people who want all year summertime, notice how dark the mornings are in December and January, add an hour and see if thats really what you want. Even in December and January it will be dark when you come home so it isn't the magic solution its portrayed to be.

Ideal scenario would be to move the weekends that the hour changes to sometime in November and February so to reduce winter time but afaik this isn't on the agenda.

The ideal scenario is to pick one, and then the clocks don’t change.

prunudo

atticu wrote: »

The ideal scenario is to pick one, and then the clocks don’t change.

For you maybe, but not everybody has an issue with changing the clocks twice a year.

atticu

mollser wrote: »

err, we've given plenty up above, but you just don't want to know i guess!

Just because they are your reasons, doesn’t make them good reasons.

atticu

jvan wrote: »

For you maybe, but not everybody has an issue with changing the clocks twice a year.

Yes, for me and the majority of people.

don’t think I’d care one way or another if it were changed or not.

prunudo

atticu wrote: »

Just because they are your reasons, doesn’t make them good reasons.

And likewise for yours, only time will tell what way it pans out. I think we all can agree which decision each of us would favour.