EU to recommend abolishing DST

Akrasia

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Exactly

That combined with the realisation that the evenings are too s**ty to do anything with in Dec and January anyway.

Early light gives better value in winter and late light gives better value in summer

Leave it that way

I really don't get this. Its not like we don't get just as many wet and miserable mornings as we do evenings

Cee-Jay-Cee

jvan wrote: »

Where are the summertime lovers getting the idea that they'll be able to enjoy long evenings of daylight, it was dark at 10 past 5 today, 10 past 6 in old time, most people are still commuting.
The extra hour in the morning is far more beneficial than you are giving it credit for.

Ok, so most people are still commuting and so therefore their opinion shouldn't make any difference, they're in their cars and their cars have lights, its the people who are already at home and children who can make more use of extra light in the evening than in the morning that should have first call on this!!!

prunudo

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Ok, so most people are still commuting and so therefore their opinion shouldn't make any difference, they're in their cars and their cars have lights, its the people who are already at home and children who can make more use of extra light in the evening than in the morning that should have first call on this!!!

Its not that their opinions don't matter but I keep hearing this mantra of oh aren't the bright evenings great when in reality from this week on it would be dark from 6pm.
And without wanting to sound like a broken record, the bright mornings are hugely beneficial for people who work outdoors. Already this week if on summertime you'd be starting work in the dark at 8am, and thats 2 months before the morning starts improving, so you're looking at the guts of 4 months where it will be dark beyond 8am.

And to the people who say just start later, on a site, the hour in the morning is more productive than working later. Also now the people who are commuting from outside Dublin will be home an hour later so will miss out on family life in the evenings.

At the end of the day I think this is a marmite topic, some want it one way, others want it the other. Personally I don't believe the benefits of all year summertime are as good as people think and think they should keep the current set up with the best of both worlds albeit possibly shorten the lenght of winter time. I'd hate all year summertime but if that's what the majority want I'll just have to get on with it and adjust my work practices to suit along with any costs that may follow.

Fr Tod Umptious

jvan wrote: »

Its not that their opinions don't matter but I keep hearing this mantra of oh aren't the bright evenings great when in reality from this week on it would be dark from 6pm.
And without wanting to sound like a broken record, the bright mornings are hugely beneficial for people who work outdoors. Already this week if on summertime you'd be starting work in the dark at 8am, and thats 2 months before the morning starts improving, so you're looking at the guts of 4 months where it will be dark beyond 8am.

And to the people who say just start later, on a site, the hour in the morning is more productive than working later. Also now the people who are commuting from outside Dublin will be home an hour later so will miss out on family life in the evenings.

At the end of the day I think this is a marmite topic, some want it one way, others want it the other. Personally I don't believe the benefits of all year summertime are as good as people think and think they should keep the current set up with the best of both worlds albeit possibly shorten the lenght of winter time. I'd hate all year summertime but if that's what the majority want I'll just have to get on with it and adjust my work practices to suit along with any costs that may follow.

I don't think people realise the amount of commercial/economic activity that goes on at 9 am in the morning

Go down any main street or shopping area in any town and you will see people cleaning shop fronts, cleaning the street, making and taking deliveries etc etc

All of which would be made much harder if did did not get bring until closer to 10am

So one earlier on suggested that postal workers just pop in to Dealz and buy a e1.50 torch ratter than An Post supplying them if they now have to work in the dark rather than bright

Are they for real ?

If I am doing a job that involves working in the dark I expect my employer to supply me with the equipment to do that job safely.

topper75

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Here’s what I think will happen.

We go into summer time next year. We don’t leave in November. For a month people are happy. Then there’s the Dec and jan late sunrises , latest at 9:40 and ... outrage!

People left wondering why we didn’t leave well enough alone.

There may be some of that yes around the solstice.

But it will be utterly drowned out by the loud chorus of "Why the **** didn't we do this way back?" when people are walking after work, playing golf, football and getting the garden sorted in Feb.

topper75

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I don't think people realise the amount of commercial/economic activity that goes on at 9 am in the morning

Go down any main street or shopping area in any town and you will see people cleaning shop fronts, cleaning the street, making and taking deliveries etc etc

All of which would be made much harder if did did not get bring until closer to 10am

So one earlier on suggested that postal workers just pop in to Dealz and buy a e1.50 torch ratter than An Post supplying them if they now have to work in the dark rather than bright

Are they for real ?

If I am doing a job that involves working in the dark I expect my employer to supply me with the equipment to do that job safely.

By equipment though, do you mean a €10 headtorch or a submarine that can also fly?
Thankfully the streetlamp has also been invented.

Franz Von Peppercorn

topper75 wrote: »

There may be some of that yes around the solstice.

But it will be utterly drowned out by the loud chorus of "Why the **** didn't we do this way back?" when people are walking after work, playing golf, football and getting the garden sorted in Feb.

I doubt it because there’s two difficult months before that. And anyway a short two month winter time would be as good.

(I’d prefer summer time over winter time though).

Cee-Jay-Cee

jvan wrote: »

Its not that their opinions don't matter but I keep hearing this mantra of oh aren't the bright evenings great when in reality from this week on it would be dark from 6pm.
And without wanting to sound like a broken record, the bright mornings are hugely beneficial for people who work outdoors. Already this week if on summertime you'd be starting work in the dark at 8am, and thats 2 months before the morning starts improving, so you're looking at the guts of 4 months where it will be dark beyond 8am.

And to the people who say just start later, on a site, the hour in the morning is more productive than working later. Also now the people who are commuting from outside Dublin will be home an hour later so will miss out on family life in the evenings.

At the end of the day I think this is a marmite topic, some want it one way, others want it the other. Personally I don't believe the benefits of all year summertime are as good as people think and think they should keep the current set up with the best of both worlds albeit possibly shorten the lenght of winter time. I'd hate all year summertime but if that's what the majority want I'll just have to get on with it and adjust my work practices to suit along with any costs that may follow.

If there was any joined up thinking in the EU they'd simply shorten DST from late November to early February but as there isn't and the question is on whether to retain DST or get rid of it, I'd be in favour of getting rid of it totally.

highdef

Interesting thing to note in the European Commission report that was linked earlier. It mentions "permanent summertime or permanent standard (winter) time". Bear in mind that under the Standard Time Act of 1968, what most people call "summer time" in Ireland is officially "Standard Time (IST)" with winter time being IST -1. In the UK (for example), summer time is GMT +1 with winter time being GMT, hence why winter time is standard time in the UK and other countries.

So if we were to go down the route of staying in Irish Standard Time, then we would get to keep those gloriously long evenings.

Personally, I would prefer to stay in IST all year round. Many people are saying that during the heart of winter, it'll be dark anyway going to and from work whether or not we are on IST or IST-1 time. During the winter weekends (or whatever days you may not be working), that is when that extra hour in the evenings would become so so welcome. I get up from bed a little bit later on my days off so if it's still dark until well after 09:00 during December/January, I don't mind as it'll be bright out by time I have breakfast and shower/etc. Then I can enjoy the daylight until at least 17:00, even around Christmas time.

Has anyone thought about doing a poll on this on Boards?

SPDUB

topper75 wrote: »

By equipment though, do you mean a €10 headtorch or a submarine that can also fly?
Thankfully the streetlamp has also been invented.

Years ago as a postal worker I had to do a delivery after 430pm in mid December and as I discovered a streetlight is bugger all use to read the address on letters

Streetlights are good to show the size and shape of items but even with 20/20 vision it was very difficult to read the address .

facehugger99

SPDUB wrote: »

Years ago as a postal worker I had to do a delivery after 430pm in mid December and as I discovered a streetlight is bugger all use to read the address on letters

Streetlights are good to show the size and shape of items but even with 20/20 vision it was very difficult to read the address .

I believe most smart phones can be used as torches.

It’s only a few days in and the dark evenings are already a pain, the sooner it’s scrapped the better. I’ve been years calling for an end to this ridiculousness and keeping summer time all year.

Cork Boy 53

highdef wrote: »

Interesting thing to note in the European Commission report that was linked earlier. It mentions "permanent summertime or permanent standard (winter) time". Bear in mind that under the Standard Time Act of 1968, what most people call "summer time" in Ireland is officially "Standard Time (IST)" with winter time being IST -1. In the UK (for example), summer time is GMT +1 with winter time being GMT, hence why winter time is standard time in the UK and other countries.

So if we were to go down the route of staying in Irish Standard Time, then we would get to keep those gloriously long evenings.

Personally, I would prefer to stay in IST all year round. Many people are saying that during the heart of winter, it'll be dark anyway going to and from work whether or not we are on IST or IST-1 time. During the winter weekends (or whatever days you may not be working), that is when that extra hour in the evenings would become so so welcome. I get up from bed a little bit later on my days off so if it's still dark until well after 09:00 during December/January, I don't mind as it'll be bright out by time I have breakfast and shower/etc. Then I can enjoy the daylight until at least 17:00, even around Christmas time.

Has anyone thought about doing a poll on this on Boards?

Why don`t you start one?

Poulgorm

Is my memory playing tricks on me or did we have GMT+1 al through the year a few decades ago and then it was abandoned after either 1 year or 2 years?

I think the Scottish kicked up hell about it.

Cork Boy 53

Poulgorm wrote: »

Is my memory playing tricks on me or did we have GMT+1 al through the year a few decades ago and then it was abandoned after either 1 year or 2 years?

I think the Scottish kicked up hell about it.

This has already been stated in this thread several times. Ireland and the UK were on all year round summer time from 1968 to 1971 but this was abandoned after the 3 year period.

judeboy101

Dark at 5:30 to bring kids trick n treating. Id have to wait til 6:30 if we abandon wintertime. Who the hell would go trick n treating in daylight.


Most of you "daywalkers" still don't get the fact that all year summer time will vastly increase depression and mental health issues due to serotonin imbalances caused by waking up in dark winter mornings. Adults can cope but young brains can't.

judeboy101

judeboy101 wrote: »

Most of you "daywalkers" still don't get the fact that all year summer time will vastly increase depression and mental health issues due to serotonin imbalances caused by waking up in dark winter mornings. Adults can cope but young brains can't.

Absolute nonsense imo.

judeboy101

Leroy Cuddly Warmonger wrote: »

Absolute nonsense imo.

Luckily you are not a scientist

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=dark+morning+hours+linked+depression&btnG=

Cork Boy 53

judeboy101 wrote: »

Dark at 5:30 to bring kids trick n treating. Id have to wait til 6:30 if we abandon wintertime. Who the hell would go trick n treating in daylight.


Most of you "daywalkers" still don't get the fact that all year summer time will vastly increase depression and mental health issues due to serotonin imbalances caused by waking up in dark winter mornings. Adults can cope but young brains can't.

What about dusk at 9pm or so in mid summer which is what would happen if we had all year round winter time? Would that not also cause issues to these young brains you refer to?

judeboy101

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

What about dusk at 9pm or so in mid summer which is what would happen if we had all year round winter time? Would that not also cause issues to these young brains you refer to?

It's the morning serotonin levels that is more important for adults and children, simple neurochemistry.

OldMrBrennan83

jmayo wrote: »

Exactly we cannot go with this if UK doesn't.
It would make NI and ROI border areas looney land.

Or maybe some of our europhiles think that the DUP will sign up to having a different time to Britain so that they can fit in with the rest of the island of Ireland. :rolleyes:

Lots of adjoining countries in Europe are in different zones so us and Northern Ireland having different ones would hardly be that mind bending.

Patww79

Patww79 wrote: »

Lots of adjoining countries in Europe are in different zones so us and Northern Ireland having different ones would hardly be that mind bending.

Exactly.

Who cares what they do up there anyway? It’s already Looney Land.

highdef

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Why don`t you start one?

Because I didn't want to create a possible duplicate poll.

judeboy101

judeboy101 wrote: »

Luckily you are not a scientist

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=dark+morning+hours+linked+depression&btnG=

I am actually.

Scott Tenorman

JayZeus wrote: »

Exactly.

Who cares what they do up there anyway? It’s already Looney Land.

Its still 1690 up there, an hour here or there isn't going to make much difference :pac:

Akrasia

judeboy101 wrote: »

Luckily you are not a scientist

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=dark+morning+hours+linked+depression&btnG=

I hope you're not a scientist cause posting a list of papers that have nothing to do with what you're talking about isn't very scientific. You would be better off posting one single good quality study that's relevant than a google search result that brings up mostly irrelevant results

Akrasia

BTW, I'm posting this after being woken up early again by my kids whose bodies think it's 7:30am when the clocks say 6:30am

Those same kids will be over tired and cranky by 6 30pm this evening when their bodies will think its their bedtime an hour early

Great isn't it.

OldMrBrennan83

Let a roar at them. It isn't up to dst to rear kids.

VinLieger

judeboy101 wrote: »

Luckily you are not a scientist

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=dark+morning+hours+linked+depression&btnG=

LOL a google search list of papers that you hope agree with you, yeah that proves your point alright.......


Also quite obvious you read none of them either as most if not all have nothing to do with what your claiming

Elmer Blooker

saccades wrote: »

Portugal has repeatedly tried to get onto CET and keep giving up as the usable light in the day is at the "wrong" times. So despite the advantages of being on the same time as France/Germany they have gone back to what works.

It will be the same with this, people on the edges of the continent having to fudge so that a few are ok.

Light when the kids are going to and from school makes sense to me.

A good post if I may say so.
The earth is round, the sun rises later as you move west and that's why we have time zones, its as simple as that. Have these Brussels bureaucrats nothing better to do than tell us the earth is flat? The USA can function economically on different time zones and so can Europe which it has done since we joined the EU in 1973.

I have no idea whatsoever why some want kids to go to school in the dark when as things stand they go to school in daylight and come home in daylight.
Isn't asking people the question 'do you want brighter evenings' a bit loaded? Of course everyone will say yes as it is tempting when put that way. Who is going to say no? Why not ask people 'do you want darker mornings' as I have been doing lately ..... the answer is 100% NO.