EU to recommend abolishing DST

Elmer Blooker

Lets look at how things currently stand under the 'fall back, spring forward' system which no one seemed to have a problem with until recently for some reason that I cannot explain.
Here are the sunrise/sunset times for mid winter day, mid January and February 1st.
Dec 21st: 8.38 16.08
Jan 15th: 8.32 16.36
Feb 1st: 8.09 17.08.
Note that by mid January, only three weeks after the solstice we have gained an extra half hour of daylight compared with only a mere six minutes in the mornings. This is when we start hearing 'a grand stretch' in conversation even though the mornings are still as dark as ever.
By Feb 1st we have already gained a full hour of daylight (THAT 'extra' hour) compared with only half an hour in the mornings. Seriously, the abolition of DST is a very bad deal, as I showed the mornings are slow to brighten up but the increase in daylight in the evenings only a few weeks after the solstice is rapid.

Not my fault you repeatedly misrepresented the options on the table being discussed by the EU. In several posts you inferred we were being asked to switch to an EU wide timezone which is completely untrue.

OK relax. I admit I didn't even read that EU 'recommendation' mumbo jumbo, I never have before and I'm not going to start now!
When I hear anything about Brussels bureaucracy I usually expect the worst!
The question is do we want Arctic Circle darkness in the mornings!

prunudo

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Lets look at how things currently stand under the 'fall back, spring forward' system which no one seemed to have a problem with until recently for some reason that I cannot explain.
Here are the sunrise/sunset times for mid winter day, mid January and February 1st.
Dec 21st: 8.38 16.08
Jan 15th: 8.32 16.36
Feb 1st: 8.09 17.08.
Note that by mid January, only three weeks after the solstice we have gained an extra half hour of daylight compared with only a mere six minutes in the mornings. This is when we start hearing 'a grand stretch' in conversation even though the mornings are still as dark as ever.
By Feb 1st we have already gained a full hour of daylight (THAT 'extra' hour) compared with only half an hour in the mornings. Seriously, the abolition of DST is a very bad deal, as I showed the mornings are slow to brighten up but the increase in daylight in the evenings only a few weeks after the solstice is rapid.

OK relax. I admit I didn't even read that EU 'recommendation' mumbo jumbo, I never have before and I'm not going to start now!
When I hear anything about Brussels bureaucracy I usually expect the worst!
The question is do we want Arctic Circle darkness in the mornings!

Add to this the evenings stop getting any darker around the 10th Dec and start getting brighter from the 19th, where as the mornings keep getting darker until the 26th Dec and don't start getting brighter till the 2nd of Jan.

Its the January mornings that feel the darkest and longest. The lead up to Christmas isn't as noticeable.

Franz Von Peppercorn

topper75 wrote: »

Not worth even mentioning this though on the thread. The EU is forcing us to end it altogether.

Are they? There’s still a consultation process. Hopefully Northern European countries will fight back.

Also nobody really likes these changes on their own. Particularly losing an hour in bed.

But nobody likes going to the dentist either. Most people who voted to get rid probably didn’t think of the consequences. And just didn’t like the sleep disruption.

VinLieger

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

OK relax. I admit I didn't even read that EU 'recommendation' mumbo jumbo, I never have before and I'm not going to start now!
When I hear anything about Brussels bureaucracy I usually expect the worst!
The question is do we want Arctic Circle darkness in the mornings!

Admitting to wanton ignorance and spewing ridiculous hyperbole all in one post....... really just sums up your contributions to the thread

dxhound2005

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Are they? There’s still a consultation process. Hopefully Northern European countries will fight back.

Also nobody really likes these changes on their own. Particularly losing an hour in bed.

But nobody likes going to the dentist either. Most people who voted to get rid probably didn’t think of the consequences. And just didn’t like the sleep disruption.

How do you know what people were thinking when they voted?

Elmer Blooker

Spewing ridiculous hyperbole!!
An 'expert' who doesn't even know what time schools close!

Never said that I said it would give them that possibility, ohh no its a bit cold..... so what its good for them as long as they wrap up enough.

Nope they have homework to be doing don't they? Which for most kids even primary students is at least an hour these days but that's another discussion.

However if you want to go with the kids argument, how about they have more time to play outside in the evening's instead of sitting in watching tv and playing games which we are always being told is making them fat and lazy so it is undoubtedly a far better use of the hour.

LOL pathetic strawmanning

Tripe.

Franz Von Peppercorn

VinLieger wrote: »

Admitting to wanton ignorance and spewing ridiculous hyperbole all in one post....... really just sums up your contributions to the thread

Immediately above that remark is a pretty good summation by EB of the problems with year round summer time (still the preferred option if we are to stick with one though).

Hardly ignorance or hyperbole.

Franz Von Peppercorn

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How do you know what people were thinking when they voted?

It’s pretty clear from posters here who support removing the change that they haven’t really thought it through. And as Jank says many countries don’t need it. Northern European countries need it.

prunudo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How do you know what people were thinking when they voted?

Probably because the majority of people in central Europe who voted on this proposal don't care about the consequences of their voting habits on littlr old Ireland.

mollser

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Lets look at how things currently stand under the 'fall back, spring forward' system which no one seemed to have a problem with until recently for some reason that I cannot explain.
Here are the sunrise/sunset times for mid winter day, mid January and February 1st.
Dec 21st: 8.38 16.08
Jan 15th: 8.32 16.36
Feb 1st: 8.09 17.08.
Note that by mid January, only three weeks after the solstice we have gained an extra half hour of daylight compared with only a mere six minutes in the mornings. This is when we start hearing 'a grand stretch' in conversation even though the mornings are still as dark as ever.
By Feb 1st we have already gained a full hour of daylight (THAT 'extra' hour) compared with only half an hour in the mornings. Seriously, the abolition of DST is a very bad deal, as I showed the mornings are slow to brighten up but the increase in daylight in the evenings only a few weeks after the solstice is rapid.

OK relax. I admit I didn't even read that EU 'recommendation' mumbo jumbo, I never have before and I'm not going to start now!
When I hear anything about Brussels bureaucracy I usually expect the worst!
The question is do we want Arctic Circle darkness in the mornings!

Great post and practical summation of the issue here, which "most" people who claim they want to abolish DST just aren't aware of or haven't really thought about.

You should send it to the letters pages in the newspapers!

facehugger99

mollser wrote: »

Great post and practical summation of the issue here, which "most" people who claim they want to abolish DST just aren't aware of or haven't really thought about.

You ever think that we might be aware of it, have thought about it and want to abolish it anyway.

The condescending nonsense from the DST acolytes is highly amusing.

mollser

facehugger99 wrote: »

You ever think that we might be aware of it, have thought about it and want to abolish it anyway.

The condescending nonsense from the DST acolytes is highly amusing.

The "I want I want I want" from the abolishers is equally amusing!

josip

Akrasia wrote: »

I really don't get this. Its not like we don't get just as many wet and miserable mornings as we do evenings

Mornings are usually much clearer and better weather where we live than the evenings, but maybe that's because we live on the coast.

Franz Von Peppercorn

facehugger99 wrote: »

Fair enough, apologies- I did not see that in the links.

Interesting - appears to be about 70% in Ireland in favour of permanent Summertime and only 20% for Wintertime. I would have thought it would have been even more pronounced tbh. I've literally never met a 'real' person who would prefer Wintertime

The Finns want the opposite. Which makes sense I suppose since it’s dark anyway in their winter mornings and probably too bright at night in summer time.

Franz Von Peppercorn

4.6M people responded but, while impressive, it was still an online poll and therefore self selecting.

VinLieger

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Spewing ridiculous hyperbole!!
An 'expert' who doesn't even know what time schools close!





Tripe.

Fantastic contribution to the discussion as usual

VinLieger

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Hardly ignorance or hyperbole.

Admitting to not knowing what was being discussed as they couldnt be bothered looking into it and spewing out comments like "do we want arctic circle darkness" are exactly ignorance and hyperbole.

Franz Von Peppercorn

VinLieger wrote: »

Admitting to not knowing what was being discussed as they couldnt be bothered looking into it and spewing out comments like "do we want arctic circle darkness" are exactly ignorance and hyperbole.

His posts are amongst the most informative here.

You also don’t engage with his well thought out posts, but selectively quote.

VinLieger

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

His posts are amongst the most informative here.

You also don’t engage with his well thought out posts, but selectively quote.

LOL the first factual post they have made, convenient pick ill give you that.

josip

judeboy101 wrote: »

Dark at 5:30 to bring kids trick n treating. Id have to wait til 6:30 if we abandon wintertime. Who the hell would go trick n treating in daylight.


Most of you "daywalkers" still don't get the fact that all year summer time will vastly increase depression and mental health issues due to serotonin imbalances caused by waking up in dark winter mornings. Adults can cope but young brains can't.

Can someone please tell the Fins?
They seemed to have missed the memo.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/14/finland-happiest-country-world-un-report

Riskymove

josip wrote: »

Can someone please tell the Fins?
They seemed to have missed the memo.

1. Finland (5)

2. Norway (1)

3. Denmark (2)

4. Iceland (3)

Indeed Top 4 all Scandinavian despite hours of daylight

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

We definitely should give it a try.

And whether more people prefer summertime or wintertime we can choose by sticking it onto a referendum.

The main thing though is that the hour shouldn't change twice per year. So summertime or wintertime, either way we pick one and stick with it all year round.

dxhound2005

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

4.6M people responded but, while impressive, it was still an online poll and therefore self selecting.

Self selecting meaning that they had an interest in the topic and wished to participate in the process in order to have their particular views represented?

Yet you wrote off most of their contributions as being ill informed.

Most people who voted to get rid probably didn’t think of the consequences.

Fr Tod Umptious

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Self selecting meaning that they had an interest in the topic and wished to participate in the process in order to have their particular views represented?

Yet you wrote off most of their contributions as being ill informed.

Most people who voted to get rid probably didn’t think of the consequences.

It does not affect people in southern or central Europe as much as it affects people further north.

The majority of Europe's population is south of us.

They dont have the same issue with morning darkness we have and longer evenings in a better climate suits them better.

I'm just glad our government did not blindly accept what came from Europe and opened their own consultation on it.

dxhound2005

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

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It does not affect people in southern or central Europe as much as it affects people further north.

The majority of Europe's population is south of us.

They dont have the same issue with morning darkness we have and longer evenings in a better climate suits them better.

I'm just glad our government did not blindly accept what came from Europe and opened their own consultation on it.

The proposal applies to EU countries, not all of Europe. The three time zones in the EU take account of what you are saying. It's 8 pm here, 9 pm in Brussels and 10 pm in Bucharest.

Franz Von Peppercorn

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Self selecting meaning that they had an interest in the topic and wished to participate in the process in order to have their particular views represented?

Yet you wrote off most of their contributions as being ill informed.

Most people who voted to get rid probably didn’t think of the consequences.

Most of us only became aware of this nonsense when it became an EU recommendation.

Franz Von Peppercorn

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The proposal applies to EU countries, not all of Europe. The three time zones in the EU take account of what you are saying. It's 8 pm here, 9 pm in Brussels and 10 pm in Bucharest.

Did you understand what he was saying by making the distinction between north and south Europe?

josip

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

We definitely should give it a try.

And whether more people prefer summertime or wintertime we can choose by sticking it onto a referendum.

The main thing though is that the hour shouldn't change twice per year. So summertime or wintertime, either way we pick one and stick with it all year round.

Hang on a second.

Why don't we agree a compromise?
Some people don't want to change twice a year.
Some people don't want zero changes.
Why don't we split the difference and only change once a year?

prunudo

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Did you understand what he was saying by making the distinction between north and south Europe?

Ah no, sure the daylight lenght is the same on the coast of the Med as the Baltic!

highdef

josip wrote: »

Why don't we split the difference and only change once a year?

And can you elaborate how that would work?