EU to recommend abolishing DST

josip

highdef wrote: »

And can you elaborate how that would work?

Whoosh.

dxhound2005

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Did you understand what he was saying by making the distinction between north and south Europe?

Yes. But Finland has chosen to be in a different time zone to Sweden and in the same time zone as Greece. East West is more important.

Are Germany, France and Austria North or South? They provided the vast majority of the responses to the survey.

In absolute figures, 70 % of the replies (3.1 million) came from Germany, followed by France (8.6 %; 393 000) and Austria (6 %; 259 000). Other countries whose replies represent more than 1 % of the total are Poland, Spain, Czech Republic, Belgium, Finland and Sweden.

5starpool

Whatever about anything else, my main reason for preferring summer time as a default over winter time is because I don't want it to get bright at 3am in the middle of summer.

irelandrover

irelandrover wrote: »

Because some poeple have children who go to bed early. If you get home late then you get less time with them. Not everyone is the same as you.

Children or no children getting home earlier for me would just mean more time spent out getting bits done on the farm tbh.

....... wrote: »

Wouldnt make any sense for people with children.

Most of the working population and those with children would have early starts.

Starting work after 9.30am is unusual.

Some of the people with children are the latest to come in where I work.

Having flexible hours and starting at times after 9 is fairly common from my experience in highly skilled tech jobs where in general people are left to get their work done and organize their own schedule around meeting the deadlines they need etc, none of this fixed hours stuff. I know where I work the doors are open from 7am and people can come in then but aside from a very odd person the place is empty before 9am and it’s only from about 9:15 to about 9:45 that the place fills up with a few then filtering in up to about 10:30.

You will get more people there at 9pm than 8am.

Capt'n Midnight

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Here are the sunrise/sunset times for mid winter day, mid January and February 1st.
Dec 21st: 8.38 16.08
Jan 15th: 8.32 16.36
Feb 1st: 8.09 17.08.

During a weekend I am far more likely to be out and about at 4:00 pm, when an extra hour of daylight would be good for the soul, than out and about at 9:30, which is the latest start of daylight if we move to Irish Standard Time all year.



As for kids, if schools stared at 10am it would reduce a lot of morning traffic congestion caused by the school run.

This would save me about 20 minutes, in which case I'd be getting an extra hour of daylight seven evenings a week for half the year at the cost of 40 minutes of darkness five days a week during the darkest three months.

Elmer Blooker

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

During a weekend I am far more likely to be out and about at 4:00 pm, when an extra hour of daylight would be good for the soul, than out and about at 9:30, which is the latest start of daylight if we move to Irish Standard Time all year.



As for kids, if schools stared at 10am it would reduce a lot of morning traffic congestion caused by the school run.

This would save me about 20 minutes, in which case I'd be getting an extra hour of daylight seven evenings a week for half the year at the cost of 40 minutes of darkness five days a week during the darkest three months.

In theory schools opening at 10am is a good idea but I feel working parents wouldn't be in favour of it. Of course older secondary pupils can make their own way to school but the younger ones in primary school?

Today, just like last weekend, there will be people all over the country playing golf, football, rugby or any other outdoor activity such as walking, clearing up leaves etc, I don't think people are going to be stuck indoors because the clocks went back last weekend. Life goes on!

As i have been saying this 'extra' hour is not what it is cracked up to be and yesterday was a good example. I noticed that because of the gloomy weather it appeared to be getting dark at 4pm even though sunset (1655) was almost an hour away and by 5pm it WAS almost dark. Of course our climate is not always gloomy but it is most of the time in the middle of winter so I feel this 'extra' hour will go unnoticed on most days.
I also noticed something on Thursday morning (Nov 1st) At 8am, 35 mins after sunrise it was 1 degree but by 9am it had jumped to 6 degrees. Nothing unusual about the day warming up after the sun rises but just remember a later sunrise is going to make the mornings a lot colder! Any icy patches on roads will persist later into the morning and there is also fog which usually disperses after sunrise, that will also persist later into the morning.
This potential abolition of DST will have to be thought out carefully but I feel the 'extra' hour contingent will win out and we will get darker mornings. I would give it a year.

Fr Tod Umptious

Still dark here on a wet Kerry morning.

13th November
08:34 Old time

What will it be like in a few weeks.

irelandrover

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Still dark here on a wet Kerry morning.

13th November
08:34 Old time

What will it be like in a few weeks.

My guess is it will be dark.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Sunrise was actually at 7:55 today in Tralee. What would late December in summer time be like?

topper75

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Sunrise was actually at 7:55 today in Tralee. What would late December in summer time be like?

Using careful arithmetic - it would sunrise at 8.55 instead.

Which doesn't matter a jot because for the vast majority of people all they are doing is heading to work or school. Doesn't matter how bright it is or isn't. Vehicles have lights.

The little bit of light in the evening would allow you to get out for a short walk and some direct sun if it was dry.

VinLieger

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Sunrise was actually at 7:55 today in Tralee. What would late December in summer time be like?

Darker for another hour..... so what?

Franz Von Peppercorn

topper75 wrote: »

Using careful arithmetic - it would sunrise at 8.55 instead.

Which doesn't matter a jot because for the vast majority of people all they are doing is heading to work or school. Doesn't matter how bright it is or isn't. Vehicles have lights.

The little bit of light in the evening would allow you to get out for a short walk and some direct sun if it was dry.

That’s pretty bad arithmetic unless you think that the sunrise in late December is the exact same as early November.

Franz Von Peppercorn

VinLieger wrote: »

Darker for another hour..... so what?

Oh ffs.

Franz Von Peppercorn

The actual answer is 9:48 am. It’s almost like you can’t just add one hour to the early November sunrise time to estimate the late December sunrise time in perpetual summer time. Whuuda thunk it?

If it seemed dark until past 8am today in Tralee even after sunrise then late December 2019 is going to be pretty horrible. Particularly out west. It will seem dark well into the working day.

Reati

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The actual answer is 9:48 am. It’s almost like you can’t just add one hour to the early November sunrise time. Whuuda think it.

If it was dark until past 8am today even after sunrise then late December 2019 is going to be pretty horrible. Particularly out west.

Rural Ireland complaining again!

Franz Von Peppercorn

Reati wrote: »

Rural Ireland complaining again!

9:40 in Dublin. Where I actually live and was born.
9:56 in Donegal.

None are great.

Reati

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

9:40 in Dublin. Where I actually live and was born.
9:56 in Donegal.

None are great.

LOL I was joking (forgot the ). I agree.

prunudo

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

9:40 in Dublin. Where I actually live and was born.
9:56 in Donegal.

None are great.

But but but but, at least I'll be able to go for a walk after work in all the extra daylight.

The naysayers don't like facts like you've posted above.

Franz Von Peppercorn

To be clear between the two options I’d prefer summer time all year round. I think a modified version of what we have (with just 3 months winter time) would be best.

highdef

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

To be clear between the two options I’d prefer summer time all year round. I think a modified version of what we have (with just 3 months winter time) would be best.

I would mostly agree with you. I would personally be fine with standard (summer) time all year round as not mad into changing the clocks however I would be willing to accommodate clock changes 6 weeks before and 6 weeks after the solstice. 3 months of ultra early sunsets would be a lot more bearable that 5 plus it should keep those who prefer morning daylight happy enough.

Having said that, the whole idea is to abolish the bi-annual changes.

Cork Boy 53

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

To be clear between the two options I’d prefer summer time all year round. I think a modified version of what we have (with just 3 months winter time) would be best.

As far as I know that option is not on the table. Its either all year round summertime or wintertime. No half measures.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

As far as I know that option is not on the table. Its either all year round summertime or wintertime. No half measures.

Unfortunately that’s the case.

VinLieger

jvan wrote: »

But but but but, at least I'll be able to go for a walk after work in all the extra daylight.

The naysayers don't like facts like you've posted above.

What about the facts?? The majority on this thread are well aware of them already like when people point out on wintertime the sun will set at 9pm instead of 10 during the summer but it doesnt contribute to the discussion anymore as its been made over and over again but you keep for some reason making it as youve no other evidence based arguments to make that support a benefit in sticking to winter time.



Disliking it being dark at those hours is an opinion and many more people than you or the other wintertime proponants would like to admit care more about having brighter summer evenings.


You can keep spuriously claiming its because they haven't considered the darker winter mornings but in reality theres no evidence to support that incredibly arrogant claim at all and for all you know they have done exactly that and still consider brighter summer evenings preferable.

irelandrover

jvan wrote: »

But but but but, at least I'll be able to go for a walk after work in all the extra daylight.

The naysayers don't like facts like you've posted above.

Ok, so i can start work anywhere between 7 and 9 in the morning and then work for 8 hours.

Currently I travel to work in the dark and travel home in the dark in the middle of winter.

If the time changes i will still travel to work in the dark but will have some daylight when i get home.

You seem to be saying i dont understand that it will be darker later in the morning. I do, it makes no difference for me in this case.

highdef

Another thing to bear in mind is that the 10pm sunset time in summer only occurs around the solstice in June. In fact, for those living in or near Dublin the sun never sets 10pm or later.

The lovely warm and balmy sunny evenings most often occur in July and August, sometimes early September. During these months, the sun currently sets (in Dublin) between 21:55 at the beginning of July and 20:17 at the end of August. So lets say you're having an outdoor event at home in mid August (which would be very common) - Currently the sun would set around 20:50 or so but if we were to stay in winter time and not Irish Standard Time, then the sun would be setting around 19:45.....that to me would be a bummer and would mean a massive loss of one of the greatest things in this country and that is the beautifully long days of summer with abundant useful daylight.

If you were to have an outdoor event in the last weekend of August.....just before the kids go back to school, for example....you could knock another half hour of usable daylight of that and will find it getting dark from about 19:20!!!

prunudo

highdef wrote: »

Another thing to bear in mind is that the 10pm sunset time in summer only occurs around the solstice in June. In fact, for those living in or near Dublin the sun never sets 10pm or later.

The lovely warm and balmy sunny evenings most often occur in July and August, sometimes early September. During these months, the sun currently sets (in Dublin) between 21:55 at the beginning of July and 20:17 at the end of August. So lets say you're having an outdoor event at home in mid August (which would be very common) - Currently the sun would set around 20:50 or so but if we were to stay in winter time and not Irish Standard Time, then the sun would be setting around 19:45.....that to me would be a bummer and would mean a massive loss of one of the greatest things in this country and that is the beautifully long days of summer with abundant useful daylight.

Absolutely, dark summer nights would be a pain in arse, not much point in having dawn from 3am with the sun rising at 4am

RobertKK

I chatted with a Finnish gaming friend about this around the time the EU held the poll. He was in favour of staying in summertime year round, and he voted in the poll for that, the same as I did.
It was in clear in the poll, most people don't like the change of clocks in October.

Fr Tod Umptious

17:40 All year summertime

Just home from work

Streetlights on
Car lights on
House lights on

Wet outside

Where is that extra hour I was promised ?

It's mostly dark already

It's only the 13th of November.

highdef

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

17:40 All year summertime

Just home from work

Streetlights on
Car lights on
House lights on

Wet outside

Where is that extra hour I was promised ?

It's only the 13th of November.

In all fairness, we are only 4 weeks from the earliest sunsets of the year.

Where you will really see the benefit is in late winter and early spring. Around this date in February, it would be around 18:30 when the sun would set, if we remained on Irish Standard Time all year. Better still, around this date in March and it would be about 19:25 when the sun sets.

A lot of people in this country suffer from SAD and cases of it get much more frequent in the second half of winter and into early Spring because the long dark evenings drag on for so long. Even those who don't suffer from sad will often get cabin fever because there aren't many outdoorsy things you can do after dark, particularly for those living outside of urban areas.

highdef

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

17:40 All year summertime

Wet outside

By the way, why you mentioned that it was wet outside is rather perplexing. How is that connected to clocks changing or not?