EU to recommend abolishing DST

ruwithme

Thank god for brexit, Britain won't be adopting any e.u related suggestions or otherwise regarding clock changes. so ireland won't be doing anything either with a uk land border that would have a time difference on our island.

if we should make any changes, it would in my opinion be too not fall the clock back until later in the month of November and spring it forward sooner ie last days of February

December and January are the months when the clock changes come of benefit to people.

for anyone who thinks clock changes should be abolished! i say they were introduced for good reasons and them same reasons are still relevant today. be careful what you wish for.

dxhound2005

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

As I've said before.

Try it and people will be screaming for DST back after a few winter's of pitch dark mornings.

The reality is the location of our country on the planet is not suited for a one size fits all.

The best solution is to change the clocks twice a year, ideally that would be every early December and early February, but unfortunately that is not on the table.

Define morning. It won't matter to someone travelling to start work at 6 or 7 in the morning. Nor those working various shifts in the 24 hour economy. Nor the large number of people who stay at home. Those you have in mind who you expect to be screaming are probably a minority of the population.

Leroy Cuddly Warmonger

Leroy Cuddly Warmonger wrote: »

And as the majority of people have said who cares if it’s only bright at 9:30, what are you going to be doing on a dark wet winter morning the morning light is totally unusable for most.

Going to work and going to school?

You could argue what's the point of an hour of daylight between 4 and 5 when we are all in work anyway?

dxhound2005

ruwithme wrote: »

Thank god for brexit, Britain won't be adopting any e.u related suggestions or otherwise regarding clock changes. so ireland won't be doing anything either with a uk land border that would have a time difference on our island.

if we should make any changes, it would in my opinion be too not fall the clock back until later in the month of November and spring it forward sooner ie last days of February

December and January are the months when the clock changes come of benefit to people.

for anyone who thinks clock changes should be abolished! i say they were introduced for good reasons and them same reasons are still relevant today. be careful what you wish for.

Spain and Portugal are an hour apart. So are Romania and Hungary, Sweden and Finland. There is no particular reason that us and the UK have to be on the same time.

nkl12xtw5goz70

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There is no particular reason that us and the UK have to be on the same time.

I'd note that there are an estimated 30,000 cross-border workers who live in the Republic and work in the North, or vice versa. Navigating different time zones across the border could be a massive pain for many.

Fr Tod Umptious

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Define morning. It won't matter to someone travelling to start work at 6 or 7 in the morning. Nor those working various shifts in the 24 hour economy. Nor the large number of people who stay at home. Those you have in mind who you expect to be screaming are probably a minority of the population.

In a regular Irish village/town/city you will see the following going on it the morning, in no particular order.

Farming
Construction
Infrastructure services (ESB, telecoms, Irish water etc)
Street cleaning
Shop owners taking large deliveries
Business owners cleaning the front of premises before opening
etc etc

All parts of every day life that are easier done with natural light than without.

Then you have schools.
Regardless of how they travel to school be it by car, cycle, walk or public transport there is zero upside to that happening in the dark rather than in increasing light.

People go on about kids and obesity, and then they want to reduce their ability to walk or cycle to school by taking away the daylight.

Madness.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Think maybe it could be shortened by a month?

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

In a regular Irish village/town/city you will see the following going on it the morning, in no particular order.

Farming
Construction
Infrastructure services (ESB, telecoms, Irish water etc)
Street cleaning
Shop owners taking large deliveries
Business owners cleaning the front of premises before opening
etc etc

All parts of every day life that are easier done with natural light than without.

Then you have schools.
Regardless of how they travel to school be it by car, cycle, walk or public transport there is zero upside to that happening in the dark rather than in increasing light.

People go on about kids and obesity, and then they want to reduce their ability to walk or cycle to school by taking away the daylight.

Madness.

Yes but what about people who want to play tennis at 4pm?

dxhound2005

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

I'd note that there are an estimated 30,000 cross-border workers who live in the Republic and work in the North, or vice versa. Navigating different time zones across the border could be a massive pain for many.

No need for it to be a pain. People manage this sort of thing the world over. Like in Kentucky.

http://www.timebie.com/us/kentucky.php

dxhound2005

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

In a regular Irish village/town/city you will see the following going on it the morning, in no particular order.

Farming
Construction
Infrastructure services (ESB, telecoms, Irish water etc)
Street cleaning
Shop owners taking large deliveries
Business owners cleaning the front of premises before opening
etc etc

All parts of every day life that are easier done with natural light than without.

Then you have schools.
Regardless of how they travel to school be it by car, cycle, walk or public transport there is zero upside to that happening in the dark rather than in increasing light.

People go on about kids and obesity, and then they want to reduce their ability to walk or cycle to school by taking away the daylight.

Madness.

They all have to cope with the varying hours of daylight during the year, regardless of what the clock says. As low as 7.5 hours a day in mid December.

nkl12xtw5goz70

dxhound2005 wrote: »

No need for it to be a pain.

If the UK retains DST and Ireland scraps it, the Republic would be one hour ahead of the North throughout the winter months. This creates all kinds of logistical issues for cross-border workers, especially with regards to getting kids to and from school and the like. It's easy to say that there's no need for it to be a pain, but many of those 30,000 people will inevitably find it difficult.

ForestFire

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

If the UK retains DST and Ireland scraps it, the Republic would be one hour ahead of the North throughout the winter months. This creates all kinds of logistical issues for cross-border workers, especially with regards to getting kids to and from school and the like. It's easy to say that there's no need for it to be a pain, but many of those 30,000 people will inevitably find it difficult.

Are you seriously suggesting that less than half of 1% of the population should override the vast support for change. 82% in favour in this thread.

How many workers cross the Portuguese boarder each day?

dxhound2005

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

If the UK retains DST and Ireland scraps it, the Republic would be one hour ahead of the North throughout the winter months. This creates all kinds of logistical issues for cross-border workers, especially with regards to getting kids to and from school and the like. It's easy to say that there's no need for it to be a pain, but many of those 30,000 people will inevitably find it difficult.

The UK should go with the new scheme. Even if they don't the disruption caused by Brexit if it happens will have a far bigger impact than any clock changes. People in Cork or Tralee should have as much say as those in Lifford or Monaghan.

Edit: Posted before I saw the ForestFire post.

nkl12xtw5goz70

ForestFire wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that less than half of 1% of the population should override the vast support for change. 82% in favour in this thread.

An opinion poll carried out as part of public consultation on the proposed change found that (coincidentally) 82 percent of people oppose any measure that results in different time zones on the island of Ireland.

So it's not just a small percentage of the population who would oppose the North being in a different time zone for 7 months of the year. It's the majority.

dxhound2005

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

An opinion poll carried out as part of public consultation on the proposed change found that (coincidentally) 82 percent of people oppose any measure that results in different time zones on the island of Ireland.

So it's not just a small percentage of the population who would oppose the North being in a different time zone for 7 months of the year. It's the majority.

It wouldn't matter much to those anywhere south of Dublin. A bigger consideration might be the difference between us and GB. But we and they cope OK with the time difference when travelling to France, Germany etc, and doing business with them. They and us could learn to cope equally well with a new setup.

ForestFire

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

An opinion poll carried out as part of public consultation on the proposed change found that (coincidentally) 82 percent of people oppose any measure that results in different time zones on the island of Ireland.

So it's not just a small percentage of the population who would oppose the North being in a different time zone for 7 months of the year. It's the majority.

Over 80% voted to rid the change in both Ireland and the UK, so why would the UK not also get rid of it to solve the problem.

The UK also voted by majority (all be it a closer diff than Ireland) to keep summertime)

They are leaving the EU on a 51.x percent majority FFS, they can change their time also, as their citizens voted and if it causes a few such pain.

We should do what is in the best interest and the wishes of the majority of our people. I posted earlier in this tread all the benifit of no change.

Quantum Erasure

time, is just a social construct, maan.... it's all relative anyway

Akrasia

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

As I've said before.

Try it and people will be screaming for DST back after a few winter's of pitch dark mornings.

The reality is the location of our country on the planet is not suited for a one size fits all.

The best solution is to change the clocks twice a year, ideally that would be every early December and early February, but unfortunately that is not on the table.

That would make things twice as bad as they are

Why do none of the pro DST folks ever talk about the disruption caused twice a year from the very act of changing the clocks

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Akrasia wrote: »

That would make things twice as bad as they are

Why do none of the pro DST folks ever talk about the disruption caused twice a year from the very act of changing the clocks

I envy anyone who is bothered by having to do this. They don’t know what problems are.

An Claidheamh

ruwithme wrote: »

Thank god for brexit, Britain won't be adopting any e.u related suggestions or otherwise regarding clock changes. so ireland won't be doing anything either with a uk land border that would have a time difference on our island.

.

So basically, they are destroying their economy, creating mayhem, breaking up the UK and are an all round international joke.... but hey, we can't let Johnny Foreigner and his refined ideas affect the Blighty's clocks.


There would be no time difference on the island, the North are reliant on the Irish economy, they would have to recognise the Republic's time whether some unionists have an issue with that or not.

About time we stopped this messing anyway.

facehugger99

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

An opinion poll carried out as part of public consultation on the proposed change found that (coincidentally) 82 percent of people oppose any measure that results in different time zones on the island of Ireland.

I'd love to see how that question was worded and the results of same. It's not credible that that many people give a **** what time it is in Belfast.

Did the 82% choose sticking with UK time compared to switching to year round summertime or was it a woolly 'would you like there to just be one timezone in Ireland?' for example.

That question did not form part of the EU consultation process to my recollection.

Does anyone have a link to the poll?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I envy anyone who is bothered by having to do this. They don’t know what problems are.

Depends on how difficult it is to change the clocks, having to hire scaffold to reach a different to reach clock, plus all the health & safety documentation etc.
it can be a real pain.

nkl12xtw5goz70

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's not credible that that many people give a **** what time it is in Belfast.

It all depends on how close one lives to the North. Most people in Dublin probably don't care what time it is in Belfast. Many people in Donegal probably do care what time it is in Derry.

Also, two time zones in Ireland would only reinforce the partition of the country, potentially undermining the peace process.

facehugger99

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

It all depends on how close one lives to the North. Most people in Dublin probably don't care what time it is in Belfast. Many people in Donegal probably do care what time it is in Derry.

Also, two time zones in Ireland would only reinforce the partition of the country, potentially undermining the peace process.

82% is not a credible percentage. Donegal has a tiny population compared to Dublin.

prunudo

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

It all depends on how close one lives to the North. Most people in Dublin probably don't care what time it is in Belfast. Many people in Donegal probably do care what time it is in Derry.

Also, two time zones in Ireland would only reinforce the partition of the country, potentially undermining the peace process.

I'd say most Dubs don't care about time it is in the other 31 counties let alone Belfast.

Elmer Blooker

Akrasia wrote: »

That would make things twice as bad as they are

Why do none of the pro DST folks ever talk about the disruption caused twice a year from the very act of changing the clocks

What disruption? Most barely even notice the darker evenings in our overcast and cloudy climate, in fact everyone who's up early loves the 'extra' hour of daylight in the mornings at the end of October.
What disruption happens at the end of March?

nkl12xtw5goz70

facehugger99 wrote: »

82% is not a credible percentage. Donegal has a tiny population compared to Dublin.

Well, that's what the poll, carried out by Amarach Research, found.

You assume most people don't care about having two time zones on the island of Ireland, while opinion polling shows that most people actually do.

Which is more "credible" — your personal opinion, or the views of the 1,000+ people surveyed?

Mantis Toboggan

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

What disruption? Most barely even notice the darker evenings in our overcast and cloudy climate, in fact everyone who's up early loves the 'extra' hour of daylight in the mornings at the end of October.
What disruption happens at the end of March?

I think it's been proven that people are more likely to suffer cardiac arrest or stroke on the day following the time change.

facehugger99

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

Well, that's what the poll, carried out by Amarach Research, found.

You assume most people don't care about having two time zones on the island of Ireland, while opinion polling shows that most people actually do.

Which is more "credible" — your personal opinion, or the views of the 1,000+ people surveyed?

My question related to the phrasing of the question and what the options were wrt to how the choice was presented.

I would contend, from my experience that people would be happy to choose permanent summer time even if the UK didn't.

Have you a link to the poll?

Gerald Echoing Birthmark

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

It all depends on how close one lives to the North. Most people in Dublin probably don't care what time it is in Belfast. Many people in Donegal probably do care what time it is in Derry.

Also, two time zones in Ireland would only reinforce the partition of the country, potentially undermining the peace process.

Creating a problem where there isn't really one. I'm sure people near the Spanish/Portuguese border as well as those living in Arizona (doesn't do daylight savings time at all) and the neighbouring states get on fine with this seemingly 'complex' issue.

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

As I've said before.

Try it and people will be screaming for DST back after a few winter's of pitch dark mornings..

How do you know people will be screaming for it back, your so convinced of it that it’s sort of funny.

Most people aren’t stupid, they realise the mornings will be darker but they are perfectly happy with that.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Deleted User wrote: »

Creating a problem where there isn't really one. I'm sure people near the Spanish/Portuguese border as well as those living in Arizona (doesn't do daylight savings time at all) and the neighbouring states get on fine with this seemingly 'complex' issue.

The situation of Arizona and New Mexico is very different from the Republic of Ireland and the North — in that you don't have tense animosity between people with very different ideas about what country they belong to. Applying different time zones in the island of Ireland only reinforces the mentality of partition, with self-evident political consequences.

As a practical aspect, note too that schools in the US start much earlier than Irish schools, with the school day generally beginning somewhere between 7 and 8 a.m. This makes it easier for American parents to manage school runs before work.

In border counties, you have people trying to get their kids to school and then get to work across the border themselves on a tight schedule — which would be thrown into havoc if there were an hour's time difference.

A cross-border worker living in Donegal, 30 minutes from Derry, would have to leave home at 7:30 am in the wintertime to get to work by 9.

It's very easy for people sitting down in Dublin to say this shouldn't cause problems. But imagine putting the Northside and Southside of Dublin in different time zones and think of the issues it would cause.

nkl12xtw5goz70

facehugger99 wrote: »

Have you a link to the poll?

No, I don't. I'm sure you can look it up if you're interested.

Mantis Toboggan

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

The situation of Arizona and New Mexico is very different from the Republic of Ireland and the North — in that you don't have tense animosity between people with very different ideas about what country they belong to. Applying different time zones in the island of Ireland only reinforces the mentality of partition, with self-evident political consequences.

If it's such big problem for the people in Northern Ireland what's stopping them from from changing to the same time zone as us?

Stark

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

If it's such big problem for the people in Northern Ireland what's stopping them from from changing to the same time zone as us?

The DUP

Don't want Northern Ireland being different from the Union. (except when it comes to gay marriage and abortion of course).

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Deleted User wrote: »

Depends on how difficult it is to change the clocks, having to hire scaffold to reach a different to reach clock, plus all the health & safety documentation etc.
it can be a real pain.

You know, I’m still going to put that in the ‘Problems I wish I had’ category. And for most people, it’s far easier than that. Even business owners with clocks outside.

stefanovich

This is all just to piss off the UK. Just like us switching to kilometers. Farce.

Tacitus Kilgore

stefanovich wrote: »

This is all just to piss off the UK. Just like us switching to kilometers. Farce.

Agree 100% - inches, feet, yards & miles make infinitely more sense than the convoluted metric system. Arse.

Stark

Tacitus Kilgore wrote:

Agree 100% - inches, feet, yards & miles make infinitely more sense than the convoluted metric system. Arse.

Definitely, multiplying by 12, then 3, then 3, then hold on I have to google the next bit (https://www.google.ie/search?q=how+many+yards+in+a+mile) is much easier to grasp than multiplying by 10 every time.

stefanovich

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Agree 100% - inches, feet, yards & miles make infinitely more sense than the convoluted metric system. Arse.

Well, Irish people travel back and forth over the border and over the Irish sea and have to change from KM to miles. All other large English speaking countries use miles.

As for daylight savings, most of the channels on TV we watch are UK.

It'll cause us confusion here.

Mantis Toboggan

Stark wrote: »

The DUP

Don't want Northern Ireland being different from the Union. (except when it comes to gay marriage and abortion of course).

The same DUP that voted against the good Friday Agreement?

Well then that's a matter between the people of Northern Ireland and the DUP.
We shouldn't be changing policy to suit those idiots.

It's about time we looked after ourselves and let them either follow or suffer the consequences.

Tacitus Kilgore

stefanovich wrote: »

Well, Irish people travel back and forth over the border and over the Irish sea and have to change from KM to miles. All other large English speaking countries use miles.

As for daylight savings, most of the channels on TV we watch are UK.

It'll cause us confusion here.

What do they have to change at the border?

Ehm, aside from the US - what other large English speaking countries use miles?

Our good american friends, and australian, and russian, and chinese friends - all seem to survive despite having multiple time zones within their own countries, I think an hour between us and whoever will be just fine.

stefanovich

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

What do they have to change at the border?

Ehm, aside from the US - what other large English speaking countries use miles?

Our good american friends, and australian, and russian, and chinese friends - all seem to survive despite having multiple time zones within their own countries, I think an hour between us and whoever will be just fine.

Hmm, I assumed Canada / Australia and New Zealand used miles but apparently I'm wrong.

Still, the UK and the US would be the top countries that Irish people would visit and we share a land border with one of them.

My mother is going to be an hour late for Coronation street now and it is your fault.

Mantis Toboggan

God forbid we have to get up an hour earlier to watch homes under the hammer :rolleyes:

nkl12xtw5goz70

stefanovich wrote: »

Well, Irish people travel back and forth over the border and over the Irish sea and have to change from KM to miles.

You'd be amazed how many from the North think they can drive as fast as they want in the Republic just because they see "100" on the signs.

Tacitus Kilgore

stefanovich wrote: »

Still, the UK and the US would be the top countries that Irish people would visit and we share a land border with one of them.

My mother is going to be an hour late for Coronation street now and it is your fault.

I think Spain is the most visited by Irish people - certainly for holidaying anyway, they use kms over there too btw, AAND drive on the other side.


:pac: @ the bolded bit, made me chuckle

Elmer Blooker

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Try it and people will be screaming for DST back after a few winter's of pitch dark mornings.

Agree, pitch dark mornings in exchange for an 'extra' hour of gloomy semi darkness in the afternoon that no one will even notice notice doesn't seem like a good deal to me.
Also more ice in the mornings with the sun rising an hour later is not a good idea in a country totally dependent on the motor car and long commutes because of years of bad 'planning'.
I'd give it a year or two before people realise they have been hoodwinked by the 'extra' hour of daylight carrot on a stick.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Agree, pitch dark mornings in exchange for an 'extra' hour of gloomy semi darkness in the afternoon that no one will even notice notice doesn't seem like a good deal to me.
Also more ice in the mornings with the sun rising an hour later is not a good idea in a country totally dependent on the motor car and long commutes because of years of bad 'planning'.
I'd give it a year or two before people realise they have been hoodwinked by the 'extra' hour of daylight carrot on a stick.

A very good point. In mid-winter, it wouldn’t be an issue but the darker mornings in the outer reaches of winter would mean that morning ice would be an issue for far longer each year.

The supposed benefits of extra brightness in the evening make me smile. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Anyone who wants to exercise outdoors over winter is already doing so.

Hotblack Desiato

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

Also, Ireland had a much more agrarian workforce back in the late 60s, who objected starting work in the fields while it was still dark. That is much less of a concern in 2019.

I don't buy that. Why would anyone start work on a farm at X o'clock simply because that was what they've always done? They're going to work according to the daylight whatever the clock says.

stefanovich wrote: »

Well, Irish people travel back and forth over the border and over the Irish sea and have to change from KM to miles.

So what. When I drove all over Europe with an MPH speedo it was no problem. I drive the wife's car which has an MPH speedo, my current bike has a km/h speedo but the one I sold last month was MPH. It's not a problem except perhaps for the terminally stupid.

All other large English speaking countries use miles.

Australia, Canada, India use km. US and UK are the outliers.

As for daylight savings, most of the channels on TV we watch are UK.

Yeah god forbid someone misses East Enders, which is shown on an Irish channel anyway :rolleyes:

Don't most people record almost everything they watch these days anyway? never mind on-demand services.

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

You'd be amazed how many from the North think they can drive as fast as they want in the Republic just because they see "100" on the signs.

You'll find that they were doing it anyway when we still had MPH signs.

Do they also think that the white UK sign with the black diagonal means no speed limit? :rolleyes:

highdef

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Agree, pitch dark mornings in exchange for an 'extra' hour of gloomy semi darkness in the afternoon that no one will even notice notice doesn't seem like a good deal to me.

Around the winter solstice, this would be the case. Can't disagree there however it's later in the winter when it becomes more beneficial. With all year round Irish Standard Time, sunset at the end of February would be about 19:00 in Dublin.....add about 10 minutes to that if you are in the southwest or west of the country. With a 19:00 sunset, you'd have about 20 minutes or so of usable light as long as it's not overcast. To me, that is a massive increase of post-work light and longer time for outdoor activities at the weekends/when not working.

By mid March, you've another 30 minutes of daylight available with sunset around about 19:30 with usable daylight heading for 20:00. At this stage the weather is usually picking up somewhat and going for walks, gardening, outdoor painting, etc are tasks that become more regular. This is still about a fortnight before the clocks would be changing and I know from my own point of view, every week counts greatly as I await the longer evenings from late March onwards.