EU to recommend abolishing DST

awec

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Exactly, for most of December and January, you’d be going to work in darkness and leaving it in darkness if we were on year-round summertime. I can’t understand why anyone would want that.

Because it's only 2 months out of 12 and most people don't do anything in the morning except drive to work.

On the other hand, long summer evenings are actually useful.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Exactly, for most of December and January, you’d be going to work in darkness and leaving it in darkness if we were on year-round summertime. I can’t understand why anyone would want that.

Because the alternative - year long winter time - is worse.

What we had was a good solution.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

....... wrote: »

boards.ie is not very representative of the general public so Id be inclined to think we will get the opposite to what boards thinks.

Nah, boards.ie usually polls higher but generally on the same side as the general public.

Was slightly higher than the general public for the marriage equality and eighth amendment referendums but still picked the right side. Was also not too far wrong on the share of the vote Peter Casey got.

Based on the poll results here, I think summertime would win easily.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Because the alternative - year long winter time - is worse.

What we had was a good solution.

Is it? Our summer days are so long that I can’t see how having year-round wintertime would make much difference. In midsummer, with year-round wintertime, it would still be twilighty at 11pm. How much later do we need it to be bright?

Even as the days begin to shorten later in the summer, we still have very long summer days compared to most of the populated world. People forget we’re on the same latitude as southern Alaska.

I don’t see what we would really gain from year-round summertime that would make post-9am darkness in midwinter worth it.

Flippyfloppy

In my opinion summertime feels right, even though it’s technically wrong ‘wrong’.

What sways wintertime for me is having less thawing time for frost. These days it’s been needed. However I wouldn’t really like super early sunrises waking all the animals and kids up in the summer!

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

awec wrote: »

Because it's only 2 months out of 12 and most people don't do anything in the morning except drive to work.

On the other hand, long summer evenings are actually useful.

We already have really long summer days compared to most of the world, being on the same latitude as southern Alaska. What are people going to do with this extra hour of brightness on summer evenings that twilight won’t serve just as well? I honestly can’t think of anything myself. In midsummer, it will still be twilighty at 11pm on wintertime and even as the evenings shorten later in the season, we’d still have good long days.

I think people aren’t thinking through just how depressing it would be to both arrive and leave work in darkness. For six whole weeks.

Jimbob1977

If Britain doesn't follow suit, it could be 8am in Dundalk and 7am in Newry for 5 months of the year.

Unless they are pig-headed, the UK will follow.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

My vote would go for not changing the time either way. So we pick Summertime or Wintertime and go with it all year round. Changing the hour twice a year seems pointless at this stage.

We also should have 3 or 4 more Public Holidays per year but that has nothing to do with this thread.

klaaaz

I'd happily trade an hour of extended brightness in a summer evening for the hour of deserved evening brightness in the darkish winter. So you'd lose an hour of brightness in the evening going from 10pm to 9pm in June, boo hoo! That is so insignificant when it comes to winter especially in Dec and Jan where it's dark at 4pm presently, what would one lose if it was brighter till 5pm in these hours?

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I'd split the difference to be honest move the clock by 30 mins

For out geographic location, this is the most logical option, but probably the least likely due to the confusion that a half hour difference would cause so many people.

Hurrache

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

We already have really long summer days compared to most of the world, being on the same latitude as southern Alaska. What are people going to do with this extra hour of brightness on summer evenings that twilight won’t serve just as well?

Take up an outdoor hobby and you'll see how valuable that extra hour comes in either side of mid summer.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

klaaaz wrote: »

I'd happily trade an hour of extended brightness in a summer evening for the hour of deserved evening brightness in the darkish winter. So you'd lose an hour of brightness in the evening going from 10pm to 9pm in June, boo hoo! That is so insignificant when it comes to winter especially in Dec and Jan where it's dark at 4pm presently, what would one lose if it was brighter till 5pm in these hours?

My thinking too. You’d swear we aren’t blessed with really long summer days in this country. Our shortest summer days (say, six weeks out from the longest day) are what most of the populated world gets as their longest day of the year.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Nah, boards.ie usually polls higher but generally on the same side as the general public.

Was slightly higher than the general public for the marriage equality and eighth amendment referendums but still picked the right side. Was also not too far wrong on the share of the vote Peter Casey got.

Based on the poll results here, I think summertime would win easily.


Is it? Our summer days are so long that I can’t see how having year-round wintertime would make much difference. In midsummer, with year-round wintertime, it would still be twilighty at 11pm. How much later do we need it to be bright?

No it wouldn’t. It would be dark fully at 10pm. And lights on at 9:30. In May it would be dark just past 8. If we stayed on winter time next month would be a slow crawl from 7pm sunset to 8 pm in May. Reaching 8;50 (in Dublin) at the solstice in June 21st and then 8pm again late July early August. The only useful nice part of the Irish summer is ruined - and for what? A 4am sunrise? Total waste.

Even as the days begin to shorten later in the summer, we still have very long summer days compared to most of the populated world. People forget we’re on the same latitude as southern Alaska.

We’re nowhere near Alaska. Southern Canada. Alaska is to the north of most of Canada and Canada is big.

I don’t see what we would really gain from year-round summertime that would make post-9am darkness in midwinter worth it.

The best solution is changing the clocks but most people would sacrifice two months darkness in the morning in winter time to maintain sunset part 8pm from April through September.

Hurrache

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Our shortest summer days (say, six weeks out from the longest day) are what most of the populated world gets as their longest day of the year.

So what what the rest of the world gets, doesn't mean we shouldn't take advantage of what we have.

Gael23

Not a bad idea but it should be permanent summer time

I would prefer to keep the twice yearly time change if we could change the dates it actually happens, so we have a much shorter "wintertime" period.
for example from third week of November to the end of the first week in February.
Doing this would avoid the darkest mornings that would occur if we had all year round summertime.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Nah, boards.ie usually polls higher but generally on the same side as the general public.

Was slightly higher than the general public for the marriage equality and eighth amendment referendums but still picked the right side. Was also not too far wrong on the share of the vote Peter Casey got.

Based on the poll results here, I think summertime would win easily.


Is it? Our summer days are so long that I can’t see how having year-round wintertime would make much difference. In midsummer, with year-round wintertime, it would still be twilighty at 11pm. How much later do we need it to be bright?

No it wouldn’t. It would be dark fully at 10pm. And lights on at 9:30. In May it would be dark just past 8. If we stayed on winter time next month would be a slow crawl from 7pm sunset to 8 pm in May. Reaching 8;50 (in Dublin) at the solstice in June 21st and then 8pm again late July early August. The only useful nice part of the Irish summer is ruined - and for what? A 4am sunrise? Total waste.



We’re nowhere near Alaska. Southern Canada. Alaska is to the north of most of Canada and Canada is big.



The best solution is changing the clocks but most people would sacrifice two months in winter time for sunset part 8pm from April through September.

Nowhere near? The top of Ireland is abutting the latitude of southern Alaska. We’re fully into Canada, latitude-wise.

At midsummer, where I grew up in Ireland, it was twilighty at 11pm in midsummer. Not fully dark. Twilighty. In fact, at midsummer in Ireland, if you’re in the countryside, you’ll notice that it never goes fully dark. On a clear midsummer night, that’s very apparent. You don’t get that pitch blackness. How could it be fully dark at 10pm in midsummer on wintertime when the sky never gets pitch black in the midsummer? If you’ve never lived in the countryside, the street lights might obscure things a bit but that’s the reality.

prunudo

klaaaz wrote: »

I'd happily trade an hour of extended brightness in a summer evening for the hour of deserved evening brightness in the darkish winter. So you'd lose an hour of brightness in the evening going from 10pm to 9pm in June, boo hoo! That is so insignificant when it comes to winter especially in Dec and Jan where it's dark at 4pm presently, what would one lose if it was brighter till 5pm in these hours?

I think you have that wrong, if you want darker June evenings then you'll get the winter time it is the way it is now, ie 4.06 sunset at the earliest.
Late June evenings will give you 5.06pm sunset in winter.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Hurrache wrote: »

So what what the rest of the world gets, doesn't mean we shouldn't take advantage of what we have.

What great advantages would we gain? I can’t think of one thing that would make up for such dark mornings in winter.

Spanish Eyes

I think we should try Summertime for one year, and Wintertime for another or vice versa, then have a Brexit like three years to have a barney about what we want, rather than what we don't want.

Evidence based decisions please!

dxhound2005

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Nah, boards.ie usually polls higher but generally on the same side as the general public.

Was slightly higher than the general public for the marriage equality and eighth amendment referendums but still picked the right side. Was also not too far wrong on the share of the vote Peter Casey got.

Based on the poll results here, I think summertime would win easily.

I don't know how accurate your recollection is about the other ones, but you are as far out as Kish Lighthouse with your memory of the Peter Casey poll. He got 23% in the real election, Boards people gave him 54%.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=108386878

Franz Von Peppercorn

Fix the quotes - I fixed mine.

There’s a part of Alaska that snakes down the western coast but anchorage for instance is at 61.2 degrees to Dublin’s 53. That’s significant. The mid point is 66 degrees latitude close to the artic circle.

Sunset at 8:50 would be a total waste - the fact that it’s never fully dark hardly compensates for that.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I don't know how accurate your recollection is about the other ones, but you are as far out as Kish Lighthouse with your memory of the Peter Casey poll. He got 23% in the real election, Boards people gave him 54%.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=108386878

Aye, might have recollected that one wrong. For the other two, they passed comfortably and boards.ie polls voted higher again on the sides that won. And even the actual Peter Casey boards.ie poll results hardly indicate that boards.ie poll results run opposite to what would be voted on in real life.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

What great advantages would we gain? I can’t think of one thing that would make up for such dark mornings in winter.

We’d keep late summer nights. The fact that you don’t see this as an advantage doesn’t mean it isn’t.

dxhound2005

I don't remember being given a say in the current arrangement.

dxhound2005

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Aye, might have recollected that one wrong. For the other two, they passed comfortably and boards.ie polls voted higher again on the sides that won. And even the actual Peter Casey boards.ie poll results hardly indicate that boards.ie poll results run opposite to what would be voted on in real life.

I remember another one from way back which gave Sinn Fein 40% if there was a general election. 10% ahead of the next party. Boards polls don't matter anyway, but I would not trust them to reflect general opinion.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Fix the quotes - I fixed mine.

There’s a part of Alaska that snakes down the western coast but anchorage for instance is at 61.2 degrees to Dublin’s 53. That’s significant. The mid point is 66 degrees latitude close to the artic circle.

Sunset at 8:50 would be a total waste - the fact that it’s never fully dark hardly compensates for that.

I specified southern Alaska, didn’t I?

I don’t get what people mean by it being a waste. Sunset at 8.50 would mean twilighty darkness at around 10pm. Any evening summer events or barbeques I’ve been to have only been enhanced by the encroaching darkness. Anyone who is serious about outdoor exercise doesn’t care about it getting dark. And for children, the peak times of the day for whatever activities they’ll be doing will still be fully bright.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

We’d keep late summer nights. The fact that you don’t see this as an advantage doesn’t mean it isn’t.

But surely people can articulate what the advantages are?

If it goes to a poll, I think year-round summertime will win. I hope people are prepared for the dark mornings.

highdef

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

By not changing the time, won’t the winters stay the same as they are now? It’s the summers that will be different.

According to Irish Statute Law, winter time is the off-set time in Ireland. Summer time is "Standard" time. So if Irish Standard Time is made the full time standard, it's summer time all year round.

Better explained in Wikipedia:

"In Ireland, the Standard Time Act 1968 legally established that the time for general purposes in the State (to be known as standard time) shall be one hour in advance of Greenwich mean time throughout the year.[2] This act was amended by the Standard Time (Amendment) Act 1971, which legally established Greenwich Mean Time as a winter time period. Ireland therefore operates one hour behind standard time during the winter period, and reverts to standard time in the summer months. This is defined in contrast to the other states in the European Union, which operate one hour ahead of standard time during the summer period, but produces the same end result."

Fr Tod Umptious

The problem with Ireland is that the light in winter is more valuable in the morning and in summer more valuable in the evening.

So if we go all winter time it gets dark in mid summer at say 10 instead of 11.
We lose an hour in good weather.

It gets bright earlier too, but no one is going to be up at 3am to enjoy that extra hour.

If we have all summer time then it will not be bright in the middle of winter until well after 9am, closer to 10am actually.

But we will have an extra hour in the evening, but because the weather is do bad in mid winter that extra hour will be of little use to many, there will be feck all light at 5pm anyway.

We have had clock changing in this country for over a century, and for good reason.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The problem with Ireland is that the light in winter is more valuable in the morning and in summer more valuable in the evening.

So if we go all winter time it gets dark in mid summer at say 10 instead of 11.
We lose an hour in good weather.

It gets bright earlier too, but no one is going to be up at 3am to enjoy that extra hour.

If we have all summer time then it will not be bright in the middle of winter until well after 9am, closer to 10am actually.

But we will have an extra hour in the evening, but because the weather is do bad in mid winter that extra hour will be of little use to many, there will be feck all light at 5pm anyway.

We have had clock changing in this country for over a century, and for good reason.

The way it is now really is the best compromise. It’s a bit of hassle on the two days a year it happens but that’s all.

dxhound2005

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The problem with Ireland is that the light in winter is more valuable in the morning and in summer more valuable in the evening.

So if we go all winter time it gets dark in mid summer at say 10 instead of 11.
We lose an hour in good weather.

It gets bright earlier too, but no one is going to be up at 3am to enjoy that extra hour.

If we have all summer time then it will not be bright in the middle of winter until well after 9am, closer to 10am actually.

But we will have an extra hour in the evening, but because the weather is do bad in mid winter that extra hour will be of little use to many, there will be feck all light at 5pm anyway.

We have had clock changing in this country for over a century, and for good reason.

Good reason or not you can be very sure that the status quo was not given up without a fight, just as will be the case now.

https://www.rte.ie/centuryireland/index.php/articles/here-comes-the-summer-daylight-saving-1916-ireland

Despite opposition in both Houses of Parliament, the Summer Time Act, 1916 was passed without difficulty and with the support of the British government. However this was not the first time a bill on Daylight Saving had been introduced. In fact, on no fewer than five occasions between 1908 and 1914, similar bills had been brought before Parliament and each time had failed to make the transition to the statute book. On the three most recent attempts they had failed even to pass their first reading.