EU to recommend abolishing DST

no.8

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote:

And yet we are sacrificing either late summer evenings or (relatively) bright winter mornings for people who can’t handle this.

Dark mornings for dark afternoons please. .ost kids are driven to school this day and age.

mikeecho

I've got regularly get up in winterjust before 6am, and don't get home till after 6pm.

It's dark when I get up, it's dark when I get to work, it's dark when I leave work.

That's how it is under current conditions.

I don't care if we stick with summer or Winter time.. just as long as we stick with one time.

As for the north.. I don't care if they have a 1hr time difference., But then, I only travel up there once or twice a year at most.
Things would be different for those living on the border.

Franz Von Peppercorn

highdef wrote: »

7 months before the clocks go back

It will be dark before 7:30 before that.

Gael23

Only issue with permanent summer time is it would be dark until after 8am in December which would cause issues for schools.

prunudo

Gael23 wrote: »

Only issue with permanent summer time is it would be dark until after 8am in December which would cause issues for schools.

Be more like dark till after 9am for December and January, especially if its a dark wet day.

As I have previously said, I would have preferred a short period of winter time just covering the two months either side of new year when the sunrise is apporaching 09:00, all year round summertine will make the mornings too dark for too long.

McTigs

no.8 wrote: »

Dark mornings for dark afternoons please. .ost kids are driven to school this day and age.

Which is not something we should be encouraging.

My kids walk

Everyone is different and has a different take on things, which is fine.

My understanding of the current system is that it is designed to ensure that it gets light or is light at about 8 in the morning all year round, and then we do what we can to increase the amount of useful sunlight in the evening by putting the clocks forward in summer time.

My children cycle to school, and although I like long evenings as much as the next man, I hate sending them out in the dark in the winter. If we stuck to summer time that would be standard for about 3 months or more. As the poster above says, should be not be encouraging children to walk or cycle to school? Are we not worried about our energy consumption habits and carbon footprint?

It's also worth noting that even on winter time it is still light when most schools finish up, so the argument that one leg or another has to be done in the dark is spurious.

It's irritating that for no good reason (that I can see) the ability to move the clocks forward for summer has been taken away from us.

Paddy Cow

Deleted User wrote: »

Everyone is different and has a different take on things, which is fine.

My understanding of the current system is that it is designed to ensure that it gets light or is light at about 8 in the morning all year round, and then we do what we can to increase the amount of useful sunlight in the evening by putting the clocks forward in summer time.

My children cycle to school, and although I like long evenings as much as the next man, I hate sending them out in the dark in the winter. If we stuck to summer time that would be standard for about 3 months or more. As the poster above says, should be not be encouraging children to walk or cycle to school? Are we not worried about our energy consumption habits and carbon footprint?

It's also worth noting that even on winter time it is still light when most schools finish up, so the argument that one leg or another has to be done in the dark is spurious.

It's irritating that for no good reason (that I can see) the ability to move the clocks forward for summer has been taken away from us.

I don't know what part of the country you live in but I cycle to work and there are days when it's so windy I have to get off and walk. The middle of winter is not the time to be encouraging kids to walk/cycle to school, regardless of whether it's bright/dark. This year was ok but last year was storm after storm and any parent who sent their kid out to cycle in that has a screw loose.

Paddy Cow

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I don't know what part of the country you live in but I cycle to work and there are days when it's so windy I have to get off and walk. The middle of winter is not the time to be encouraging kids to walk/cycle to school, regardless of whether it's bright/dark. This year was ok but last year was storm after storm and any parent who sent their kid out to cycle in that has a screw loose.

I live in Dublin.

If it's particularly windy or stormy they can get the bus. If I lived in the country, then I could give them a lift. Not complicated.

I don't see why we should all just shrug our shoulders and accept that kids have to be dropped to school in 4x4s and there is no possible alternative, that's nonsense.

highdef

Akrasia wrote: »

Well good night everyone. It'll be great craic for the next week trying to re acclimatise my kids to the clock change. Cant wait for the bedtime battles and morning struggle to get them up for school

I asked my mother how she managed to "acclimatise" myself and my two brothers to the bi-yearly clock change. She looked at me funny and asked what the hell I was on about. I asked how did we cope with the clocks changing, getting us to sleep, getting us up in the morning, etc. She thought I was a bit crazy asking such a question.

I asked my aunts the same question and they too thought I was a bit crazy.

In short, the clock change has little/no effect on the kids, save for maybe one day, in the worst case scenario. Unfortunately, snowflake mentality means that the clock change is is seen by many as massive issue.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I live in Dublin.

If it's particularly windy or stormy they can get the bus. If I lived in the country, then I could give them a lift. Not complicated.

I don't see why we should all just shrug our shoulders and accept that kids have to be dropped to school in 4x4s and there is no possible alternative, that's nonsense.

I have no idea why Kids going to school is being used as such a big issue. It’s a non issue imo and certinly no reason to be arguing for losing an hour of brightness in the evening where it’s far more beneficial or going through the hassle of changing clocks.

The majority of kids don’t cycle or walk to school anyway, of the ones that do the vast vast majority will be doing so on footpaths and with street lighting anyway. In general though walking or cycling to school just isn’t practical or safe (even on the brightest days). Even when kids live close to schools it makes no sense for them not to be dropped off when their parents are on the way to work anyway, hardly practical to walk them down and then walk back to the car.

Citizenpain

Deleted User wrote: »

As I have previously said, I would have preferred a short period of winter time just covering the two months either side of new year when the sunrise is apporaching 09:00, all year round summertine will make the mornings too dark for too long.

Is this even being considered? or is it deemed too reasonable?

highdef

Citizenpain wrote: »

Is this even being considered? or is it deemed too reasonable?

No, the plan is to abolish clock changes. Amending the times but continuing bi-annual clock changes is not on the agenda. Getting rid of the bi-annual clock change is the main agenda.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

highdef wrote: »

I asked my mother how she managed to "acclimatise" myself and my two brothers to the bi-yearly clock change. She looked at me funny and asked what the hell I was on about. I asked how did we cope with the clocks changing, getting us to sleep, getting us up in the morning, etc. She thought I was a bit crazy asking such a question.

I asked my aunts the same question and they too thought I was a bit crazy.

In short, the clock change has little/no effect on the kids, save for maybe one day, in the worst case scenario. Unfortunately, snowflake mentality means that the clock change is is seen by many as massive issue.

Meanwhile, I recall my mother having trouble getting us to sleep on bright, sunny evenings in summer. If it was gloomy, it was easier. I guess your aunts and mother didn’t come up against this problem but my mother did.

Guess snowflakes go back farther than you think. :rolleyes:

Or, alternatively, maybe it’s time to stop wheeling out that tired phrase? Especially in situations where it doesn’t apply?

VinLieger

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Meanwhile, I recall my mother having trouble getting us to sleep on bright, sunny evenings in summer. If it was gloomy, it was easier. I guess your aunts and mother didn’t come up against this problem but my mother did.

Guess snowflakes go back farther than you think. :rolleyes:

Or, alternatively, maybe it’s time to stop wheeling out that tired phrase? Especially in situations where it doesn’t apply?

Well guess what even if we stick with winter time it still will be bright at 9 o clock during peak summer, well past many kids bedtime so your gonna have the same issues, so in reality that specific problem has nothing to do with DST.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

VinLieger wrote: »

Well guess what even if we stick with winter time it still will be bright at 9 o clock during peak summer, well past many kids bedtime so your gonna have the same issues, so in reality that specific problem has nothing to do with DST.

Yes, of course. My mother’s problems with getting us to sleep was more a summer problem. I just wanted to point out that some parents do have issues with the bright summer evenings and bedtimes. Only when we were very young though. It was easier to explain to us as older children.

Paddy Cow

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Yes, of course. My mother’s problems with getting us to sleep was more a summer problem. I just wanted to point out that some parents do have issues with the bright summer evenings and bedtimes. Only when we were very young though. It was easier to explain to us as older children.

My mother had a great way of explaining it - "get into bed before I go up those stairs and redden your ar$e". Was a pretty effective technique at the time but I think we've moved on since then :pac:

topper75

Whole thread reveals a general ignorance of how the EU thing works. Whatever about the merits of their decision to leave, we can't really laugh at Brits for not being clued in.

Two key points:
-EU law trumps all Irish law. What Brussels says - goes. We decided this in the treaty referendums. Keeping the clock change is not up to 'Leo'.
-EU is no longer a piggy bank for us - we are net contributors nowadays. Likely to be even moreso with Brits gone.

Sorry had to get those off my chest.

hognef

Leroy Cuddly Warmonger wrote: »

I have no idea why Kids going to school is being used as such a big issue. It’s a non issue imo and certinly no reason to be arguing for losing an hour of brightness in the evening where it’s far more beneficial or going through the hassle of changing clocks.

The majority of kids don’t cycle or walk to school anyway, of the ones that do the vast vast majority will be doing so on footpaths and with street lighting anyway. In general though walking or cycling to school just isn’t practical or safe (even on the brightest days). Even when kids live close to schools it makes no sense for them not to be dropped off when their parents are on the way to work anyway, hardly practical to walk them down and then walk back to the car.

In large parts of Norway, sunrise in the depths of winter doesn't happen until 9:00, 9:30, 10:00 or later. Most schools start at 8:30, yet plenty of kids walk to school every morning. Yet, I'd fully expect them to follow Germany, et al, onto permanent summer time, like the good "EU" citizens that they are.

Definitely a non-issue in my book.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Meanwhile, I recall my mother having trouble getting us to sleep on bright, sunny evenings in summer. If it was gloomy, it was easier. I guess your aunts and mother didn’t come up against this problem but my mother did.

Guess snowflakes go back farther than you think. :rolleyes:

Or, alternatively, maybe it’s time to stop wheeling out that tired phrase? Especially in situations where it doesn’t apply?

There were snowflakes in the 19C too and no DST.

In winter I get up at night
And dress by yellow candle-light.
In summer, quite the other way,
I have to go to bed by day.

I have to go to bed and see
The birds still hopping on the tree,
Or hear the grown-up people's feet
Still going past me in the street.

And does it not seem hard to you,
When all the sky is clear and blue,
And I should like so much to play,
To have to go to bed by day?

Robert Louis Stephenson.

Franz Von Peppercorn

hognef wrote: »

In large parts of Norway, sunrise in the depths of winter doesn't happen until 9:00, 9:30, 10:00 or later. Most schools start at 8:30, yet plenty of kids walk to school every morning. Yet, I'd fully expect them to follow Germany, et al, onto permanent summer time, like the good "EU" citizens that they are.

Definitely a non-issue in my book.

Sunrise at 11am would be nuts.

SPDUB

topper75 wrote: »

Whole thread reveals a general ignorance of how the EU thing works. Whatever about the merits of their decision to leave, we can't really laugh at Brits for not being clued in.

Two key points:
-EU law trumps all Irish law. What Brussels says - goes. We decided this in the treaty referendums. Keeping the clock change is not up to 'Leo'.
-EU is no longer a piggy bank for us - we are net contributors nowadays. Likely to be even moreso with Brits gone.

Sorry had to get those off my chest.

Haven't seen anyone answering my question from a few days ago as to what is the punishment if we say we want to stay in line with NI

Franz Von Peppercorn

SPDUB wrote: »

Haven't seen anyone answering my question from a few days ago as to what is the punishment if we say we want to stay in line with NI

European law is supreme. And as far as I know this will be law, not just a directive.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_law

hognef

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Sunrise at 11am would be nuts.

If the options are sun between 10 and 15, or between 11 and 16, many might still prefer the latter.

judeboy101

hognef wrote: »

In large parts of Norway, sunrise in the depths of winter doesn't happen until 9:00, 9:30, 10:00 or later. Most schools start at 8:30, yet plenty of kids walk to school every morning. Yet, I'd fully expect them to follow Germany, et al, onto permanent summer time, like the good "EU" citizens that they are.

Definitely a non-issue in my book.

Norway isn't in the EU

hognef

judeboy101 wrote: »

Norway isn't in the EU

Hence my "EU" rather than EU.

Norway often seem to be more compliant with EU regulations than EU countries themselves.

SPDUB

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

European law is supreme. And as far as I know this will be law, not just a directive.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_law

But what would be the penalty and how foolish would the EU look , after backing us about the backstop , in trying to "punish" us .

kenmc

SPDUB wrote: »

Haven't seen anyone answering my question from a few days ago as to what is the punishment if we say we want to stay in line with NI

There's no need to try stay on time zone as ni, sure they're already 30 years behind, another hour won't change jack

Franz Von Peppercorn

SPDUB wrote: »

But what would be the penalty and how foolish would the EU look , after backing us about the backstop , in trying to "punish" us .

No penalty because it’s the law. It’s like asking what would happen if Kerry ignored the Irish laws on drunk driving. They don’t have that authority. The Dail can’t overrule European law.