EU to recommend abolishing DST

dxhound2005

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

So again, if exemptions are granted for currency and Schengen arrangements what makes you think exemptions wouldn't be granted for time changes?

Regardless of whether it's being done to allign us with a non EU country.

Your are concentrating on one thing. There are thousands of other things in the EU which apply in all members states. Including the agreement about clocks changing in every member state twice a year at present.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

prunudo wrote: »

The status quo should continue. Long summer evenings are great, not sure its worth it to have it dark after 9am for most of the month of January though.

Yup, the system as it is now is the best compromise.

dxhound2005

For anyone who thinks it will not apply in all EU member states, this is the current position, note the words harmonised and obligation.

EU legislation on summer-time arrangements was first introduced in 1980 with the objective
of unifying existing national summer-time practices and schedules that were diverging,
thereby ensuring a harmonised approach to the time switch within the single market. Since
2001, EU summer-time arrangements have been governed by Directive 2000/84/EC2
, setting
out the obligation on all Member States to switch to summer-time on the last Sunday of
March and to switch back to their standard time ("winter-time") on the last Sunday of
October.

If Leo said something about aligning with the UK, it holds no legal standing. And if Ireland or any other member does not agree to the new proposal it will fall.

jeoun

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Yup, the system as it is now is the best compromise.

A better compromise would be to change the clocks by 30 minutes.

dxhound2005

jeoun wrote: »

A better compromise would be to change the clocks by 30 minutes.

And only once a year.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

jeoun wrote: »

A better compromise would be to change the clocks by 30 minutes.

That would still mean a post 9am sunrise for much of December and January.

RobertKK

I was reading that the Covid crisis has taken focus away from things like clock changing in the EU.

Our future is not based on the UK, we are an integral member of the EU and we should not allow London to dictate things whether we change clocks or not, if this change in ending the changing of time, we should not be the member blocking it.

jeoun

dxhound2005 wrote: »

And only once a year.

Change it once and never change again. Splitting the difference of the current system.

Mantis Toboggan

prunudo wrote: »

The status quo should continue. Long summer evenings are great, not sure its worth it to have it dark after 9am for most of the month of January though.

Well if it means an extra hour or brightness in the evening then I'm all for it. Summertime all year round would be ideal. Jo need to be changing the clocks every year.

Fr Tod Umptious

My twice yearly contribution.

My opinion has not changed.

Our geographic location makes clock changes the best option.

All year summer time means that it will be dark until close on 9.45am in the dead of winter.
People who work outdoors will be starting work in the dark.
Children being driven and walking to school will be doing so in the dark.
In the evening any idea of doing things in extra daylight will come to nothing when people realize that it will still be dark at 5.30 and the weather will suck anyway
There is zero upside to all year summer time in Ireland.

All year winter time will mean that it will get darker an hour earlier at night during the summer which will suck, and it will be bright at 3am, which is of no use to anyone.

In winter morning daylight is more valuable, in summer evening daylight is more valuable.

So in reality changing clocks is the best option.

Ideally the clocks would change in mid November and back again in late January.
That would mean none of the really dark winter mornings and making use of the extending daylight early in the new year.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Well if it means an extra hour or brightness in the evening then I'm all for it. Summertime all year round would be ideal. Jo need to be changing the clocks every year.

No, it wouldn’t. Post 9am sunrises for six weeks or more in winter. No thanks. I can’t think of anything I do with brightness until nearly 11pm in summer that would make that worth it.

prunudo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

My twice yearly contribution.

My opinion has not changed.

Our geographic location makes clock changes the best option.

All year summer time means that it will be dark until close on 9.45am in the dead of winter.
People who work outdoors will be starting work in the dark.
Children being driven and walking to school will be doing so in the dark.
In the evening any idea of doing things in extra daylight will come to nothing when people realize that it will still be dark at 5.30 and the weather will suck anyway
There is zero upside to all year summer time in Ireland.

All year winter time will mean that it will get darker an hour earlier at night during the summer which will suck, and it will be bright at 3am, which is of no use to anyone.

In winter morning daylight is more valuable, in summer evening daylight is more valuable.

So in reality changing clocks is the best option.

Ideally the clocks would change in mid November and back again in late January.
That would mean none of the really dark winter mornings and making use of the extending daylight early in the new year.

This is it in a nutshell, anything else fails to address the downside of either fixed timezone. Everybody ends up choosing the solution that fits their life, with little regard for the others who will be feel the downside of any change.

stefanovich

astrofool wrote: »

The UK will do the opposite to the EU just to be contrary, hopefully Ireland doesn't follow their lead.

The EU are the ones proposing a change. It makes sense for us to remain aligned with the UK. We won’t though, just like the change to KM.

EU is Ireland’s new BF.

Citizenpain

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

My twice yearly contribution.

My opinion has not changed.

Our geographic location makes clock changes the best option.

All year summer time means that it will be dark until close on 9.45am in the dead of winter.
People who work outdoors will be starting work in the dark.
Children being driven and walking to school will be doing so in the dark.
In the evening any idea of doing things in extra daylight will come to nothing when people realize that it will still be dark at 5.30 and the weather will suck anyway
There is zero upside to all year summer time in Ireland.

All year winter time will mean that it will get darker an hour earlier at night during the summer which will suck, and it will be bright at 3am, which is of no use to anyone.

In winter morning daylight is more valuable, in summer evening daylight is more valuable.

So in reality changing clocks is the best option.

Ideally the clocks would change in mid November and back again in late January.
That would mean none of the really dark winter mornings and making use of the extending daylight early in the new year.

Agree100%

RobertKK

The EU had a public survey open to all EU citizens on this.

The survey showed EU citizens wanted to end the twice yearly changing of clocks and 80% wanted summer time all year round.

So the Commission was acting on what their survey showed the people wanted.
I took this survey and voted to end clock changing and also went with summer time all year round.

The EU does regularly have surveys asking what people want.

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes/summertime/news/2018-08-31-consultation-outcome_en

stefanovich

RobertKK wrote: »

The EU had a public survey open to all EU citizens on this.

The survey showed EU citizens wanted to end the twice yearly changing of clocks and 80% wanted summer time all year round.

So the Commission was acting on what their survey showed the people wanted.
I took this survey and voted to end clock changing and also went with summer time all year round.

The EU does regularly have surveys asking what people want.

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes/summertime/news/2018-08-31-consultation-outcome_en

Democracy? What a joke.

Melanchthon

RobertKK wrote: »

The EU had a public survey open to all EU citizens on this.

The survey showed EU citizens wanted to end the twice yearly changing of clocks and 80% wanted summer time all year round.

So the Commission was acting on what their survey showed the people wanted.
I took this survey and voted to end clock changing and also went with summer time all year round.

The EU does regularly have surveys asking what people want.

If it's a eurobarometer survey they have been pretty flawed, Brexit is a pretty striking example if you look back on their polling but there is other examples.

Also it doesn't matter what mainland Europe thinks most of it is considerably further south than Ireland so not subject to the same changes of daylight hours

Scoondal

I'm going to wait 1 more week before I change my clocks. Nobody in my house needs to be anywhere until the schools reopen.

RobertKK

Melanchthon wrote: »

If it's a eurobarometer survey they have been pretty flawed, Brexit is a pretty striking example if you look back on their polling but there is other examples.

Also it doesn't matter what mainland Europe thinks most of it is considerably further south than Ireland so not subject to the same changes of daylight hours

It was open to all citizens in the EU to respond to.
I went onto the EU site that was holding the public consultation and gave my opinion. It was easy to do.

Northern Europe was more in favour of not having to change clocks.

Quackster

prunudo wrote: »

The status quo should continue. Long summer evenings are great, not sure its worth it to have it dark after 9am for most of the month of January though.

The status quo will continue. Nothing's changing next year.

Personally, I'd like to see Europe adopting the same switching dates as used in North America. Would mean an extra month of summer time without crazy dark January mornings.

Quackster

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

So again, if exemptions are granted for currency and Schengen arrangements what makes you think exemptions wouldn't be granted for time changes?

Regardless of whether it's being done to allign us with a non EU country.

Those exemptions were granted to specific countries as part of their EU accession agreements. (Except for the case of Sweden joining the euro, it is technically required to do so.)

minikin

Would definitely vote for summertime, nice long warm days all year round, who wouldn’t like that?

dxhound2005

Melanchthon wrote: »

If it's a eurobarometer survey they have been pretty flawed, Brexit is a pretty striking example if you look back on their polling but there is other examples.

Also it doesn't matter what mainland Europe thinks most of it is considerably further south than Ireland so not subject to the same changes of daylight hours

Finland and Greece are in the same time zone. Finland and Sweden are in different time zones. It does matter what people in other EU countries think. And every member country will be able to set its own time zone.

A lot of the discussion seems to ignore the 24 hour economy. Including this comment earlier today Think about it; most people work till 5 Even if that is correct which I doubt, it takes not account of the lives of people who do night shifts, or work until 8 in the evening, or leave their house at 6 in the morning for work.

Back to Schengen. It includes countries which are not in the EU. Ireland not being a member has nothing to do with clocks.

Hotblack Desiato

Not switching the clocks back to summertime until the end of March is crazy - at least a month too late.

I was previously in favour of year round summertime - and I'd still prefer more light in the evening rather than the morning, given the choice - but this will increase the number of mornings where it's too frosty to ride my motorbike into work

We should probably go into wintertime a few weeks later. We should definitely leave it a few weeks earlier. It's like having a tonne weight lifted off your shoulders when the clocks finally go forward.

The_Kew_Tour

Could we even meet half way like or anything ?

Like say put clocks back in Mid November and maybe go forward mid to end February

It seems it had be one or other. I can see why they need be changed but does winter time need be as long I guess.

I be pro summer time clock but still I understand why they go back to extent I just think we dont need be in winter time as long.

Donegal Overlanding

The best solution is to move Ireland further South to enjoy some warmer weather all year round.

Mantis Toboggan

If its winter time or summer time for year round then summer time is a no brainer.

Ideal scenario is we change the clocks each year at end of November to end of February.

BrianD3

I was just looking at sunset and sunrise times, day length today in the midlands is about 9 hour 55 minutes and sunrise is 7:15 DST. We will have that day length again by mid February but sunrise will be 7:45 then. If we had summertime in mid February it woudn't be great for many having the sun rising at 8:45 - but a least things would be improving and there would be a "grand stretch in the mornings"?

I don't know what the solution is. Relative to our expectations, we just don't get enough light at this latitude during the winter and have more than we need in summer. I wonder does the weather and our day length contribute to a boom/bust mentality in Irish society. Things are grand (if not great) or they're sh*t. Yet, there are much bigger extremes in the more northern latitudes, how do they manage in Scandinavia. Is it a case that things in Ireland are bad enough to affect us but not bad enough that we are forced to adapt.

Would we be willing to make major changes to how we work and live. As I said in the other threads, work from home and avoiding commuting would make a huge difference for many people. For schools, maybe could reduce the length of the school day during winter and make up for it by shortening the summer holidays and/or having longer school days In April, May, September.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Back to Schengen. It includes countries which are not in the EU. Ireland not being a member has nothing to do with clocks.

Schengen IS an EU arrangement that some countries outside the EU joined but were under no obligation to do so.

Ireland and the UK had to specifically seek an opt out.

briany

I think the best thing to do in the Winter would be to put the clocks back at midnight and then put them forward again at midday, and do this every day. That way you get the extra hour of daylight in the morning and the extra hour in the evening. It would probably mess up many an appointment, though.