EU to recommend abolishing DST

VinLieger

VinLieger wrote: »

So you suggest we alone change to a clock adjustment pattern that is unique to every other country in the world? So we should add a blocker for all other countries doing business in Ireland?

I didn’t say anything about Ireland. It was my preference.

Also its not about the act of changing the clocks its about the pointlessness of it and the potential economic impacts it can have, like your idea of singling ourselves out vs the rest of the world, along with the well documented health issues surrounding it.

Again wasn’t suggesting anything for Ireland. It was my preference.

The clock change isn’t pointless at all. After all plenty of countries still do it. All we know from the EU survey is that the people who answered the survey to stop the clock changes wanted to stop the clock changes, but that’s the very definition of self selection.

VinLieger

Deleted User wrote: »

The clock change isn’t pointless at all. After all plenty of countries still do it. All we know from the EU survey is that the people who answered the survey to stop the clock changes wanted to stop the clock changes, but that’s the very definition of self selection.

People who felt strongly about it answered the question, your just angry about more people who care about the issue having an opinion that disagrees with yours tbh.

Also the clock change is absolutely pointless, the argument that its not pointless because of how many other countries still do is just infantile ie if everyone else was jumping off a cliff would you?

DST was introduced originally for various different reasons in each country. For instance in the US it was introduced to try and conserve electricity during the first world war.

In NZ it was originally thought of to give more sun in the evenings while in the UK it was introduced to stop wasting daylight hours ie having the sun rise at 4am instead of 3am.

In reality, DST is only useful in countries that are between 30 & 60 degrees latitude, outside that range, the clock change is of little use.
For example in the extreme south of Europe the difference in daylight hours between summer and winter is only about four hours, so no real point in changing the clocks, in the extreme north the opposite is true as the time difference is so great and the daylight hours in winter are so short that morning and evenings are dark regardless of the timezone or DST settings.

Using this logic, the British Isles (& Ireland), France, Germany & other countries of similar latitude would find switching between summer & winter times beneficial.

Nqp15hhu

Deleted User wrote: »

If it was up to me, I would spring forward when the sun starts to rise at 08:00 then the sunrise will be 09:00 this year that would have been around middle of February (depending on which town you use for the sunrise).
In the Autumn the sun rises at 09:00 in mid November, then we can add the hour back in the morning. Using this method, we can at least avoid the (worst of the) long dark mornings, while making the most of the evening light.

I think perhaps a week later.. 9am is just a little too late

Nqp15hhu

VinLieger wrote: »

Well this is just littered with inaccuracies.

Firstly there's multiple studies proving that the time change impacts circadian rhythms far more and in fact there's even a statistical jump in heart attacks after each time change.

Also using the Russian example is absurd due to it being in no way comparable since Russia is a MASSIVE country, we are literally 0.5% of their total landmass. Also the main reason they switched back was to help those in northern Russia where the bulk of the issues were seen as they are between 10 and 20 degrees further north in Latitude than we are so would experience the effects of such a change far more than us.

We would also literally being throwing away an hour of useable daylight in the best months of the year to not gain anything in the winter months bar moving sunrise and sunset around a bit.

Russia is still a relevant comparison as its far north.

Most of the island is around 30 minutes behind GMT. This compounded with being quite far north results in long nights. The reverse occurs in the summer.

Meaning that there is a large transition between winter and summer. The Russian comparison is particularly apt as they had the 10am sunrises in winter like we would have.

Nqp15hhu

VinLieger wrote: »

Imo a 3am sunrise is far more absurd, 10am sunrise has zero impact on usable daylight hours which a 3am sunrise does.

There wouldn’t be a 3am sunrise. Where I live the sun doesn’t rise earlier than 5am on the longest day.

With respect to winter, a 4pm sunset isn’t much different to a 5pm sunset. Most will still be in work, or only getting out at 5pm so we would all still be coming out in the dark. Whereas leaving at 9am in the dark would impact people.

The permanent DST solution would mean that 9-5 workers would not see any daylight during the working week. And trust me you don’t want that! Having experienced a 8am-3:30pm daylight pattern in England, I have experience of this! There was many weeks where I didn’t see any daylight until the weekend and that really impacted on my mental health severely.

jeoun

False Prophet wrote: »

Just move 30 mins ahead instead of hour for summer and never change back again. Simples

Finally someone else who thinks the same way I do!

highdef

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

There wouldn’t be a 3am sunrise. Where I live the sun doesn’t rise earlier than 5am on the longest day
.

But the sun rises before 04:50 close to the equinox in Derry, to your west, where the sun rises later than your location.

Nqp15hhu

No it absolutely does not I have hills to my east.

VinLieger

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

No it absolutely does not I have hills to my east.

You do understand some people dont have hills to their east right?



But for fun lets run with your ridiculous argument what about all those people who have hills to their west and would be impacted opposite to your situation by a far earlier sunset?

Cee-Jay-Cee

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

No it absolutely does not I have hills to my east.

Really!!! You realise sunrise has to do with the sun rising over the horizon at sea level for a particular area. The fact you can’t see it because of a hill doesn’t mean your sunrise is later, if that were the case people living in cities in the shadow of tall buildings could say the sun never rises.

VinLieger

VinLieger wrote: »

You do understand some people dont have hills to their east right?

Not everyone has hills to their east? I am shocked at this revelation!

dxhound2005

In case anyone is interested the USA changed their clocks on the 14th. New York is four hours behind us, for the next couple of weeks. They change again on Nov 7th.

stefanovich

Deleted User wrote: »

Not everyone has hills to their east? I am shocked at this revelation!

if you go far enough east I think that could never be true, unless you live near the poles.

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

In case anyone is interested the USA changed their clocks on the 14th. New York is four hours behind us, for the next couple of weeks. They change again on Nov 7th.

I work for a US company, so all our meetings are now an hour earlier.

Fr Tod Umptious

dxhound2005 wrote: »

In case anyone is interested the USA changed their clocks on the 14th. New York is four hours behind us, for the next couple of weeks. They change again on Nov 7th.

Yes this has been the case since about 2006.

They used to have their clock changing to DST on the first Sunday in April, a week after ourselves and then back again on the last Sunday in October, the same day as ourselves

But in 2006 or so they brought DST forward 2 weeks and moved back the wintertime change a week.

The reason given at the time were energy savings.

They were dead right, we need DST starting earlier and wintertime starting later also.

dxhound2005

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Yes this has been the case since about 2006.

They were dead right, we need DST starting earlier and wintertime starting later also.

The variety of that which has been championed on the thread is an approx 42/10 week split. But even that will struggle against the 16 or 17 hours of darkness on some days. Hardly worth doing it for just a 10 week period.

The current set up starts about 3 months before the Solstice, and finishes about one month after the Autumn Equinox. That is generally the type of arrangement adopted around the Northern Hemisphere.

eire4

dxhound2005 wrote: »

In case anyone is interested the USA changed their clocks on the 14th. New York is four hours behind us, for the next couple of weeks. They change again on Nov 7th.

We will see if it happens but it looks like momentum is beginning to grow in the US to end the clock changing and stay on daylight saving time. I think something like 15 states have passed bills to end the practice but need federal approval and now at the federal level there is a bill being pushed by senators from both parties to end the clock changing.

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The variety of that which has been championed on the thread is an approx 42/10 week split. But even that will struggle against the 16 or 17 hours of darkness on some days. Hardly worth doing it for just a 10 week period.

The current set up starts about 3 months before the Solstice, and finishes about one month after the Autumn Equinox. That is generally the type of arrangement adopted around the Northern Hemisphere.

Winter time you mean? It starts more than one month after the Autumn Equinox but the spring equinox is in winter time. That’s the oddity.

obi604

It’s probably buried somewhere in the thread, but what is the latest and greatest update with the overall situation on abandoning the whole clock change has this been binned?

eire4

eire4 wrote: »

We will see if it happens but it looks like momentum is beginning to grow in the US to end the clock changing and stay on daylight saving time. I think something like 15 states have passed bills to end the practice but need federal approval and now at the federal level there is a bill being pushed by senators from both parties to end the clock changing.

Considering how much further south the US is relative to us, the dark mornings vs dark evenings debate is much weaker, unless you live in Alaska.

Cee-Jay-Cee

obi604 wrote: »

It’s probably buried somewhere in the thread, but what is the latest and greatest update with the overall situation on abandoning the whole clock change has this been binned?

The EU have abandoned all business except Covid and Brexit, nothing else matters and so we probably wont have any conclusion to the stupidity of DST for another 12 to 18 months at least.

eire4

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

The EU have abandoned all business except Covid and Brexit, nothing else matters and so we probably wont have any conclusion to the stupidity of DST for another 12 to 18 months at least.

Yes that does seem to be where things are at unfortunately.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

The EU have abandoned all business except Covid and Brexit, nothing else matters and so we probably wont have any conclusion to the stupidity of DST for another 12 to 18 months at least.

I seem to recall that they had abandoned the idea in 2019 as no one could agree on a common time zone implementation.

edit: I found this back in the long grass earlier in the thread!
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-set-to-reject-eu-proposal-to-end-daylight-savings-time-1.3958592?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Quackster

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I seem to recall that they had abandoned the idea in 2019 as no one could agree on a common time zone implementation.

edit: I found this back in the long grass earlier in the thread!
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-set-to-reject-eu-proposal-to-end-daylight-savings-time-1.3958592?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

The plan died with the last EC. The current Von der Leyen EC has shown no interest in resurrecting it.

NeuralNetwork

I don’t see this being touched again until after the pandemic is resolved. People have enough on their plates without dealing with minutiae like this at the moment.

In Ireland it would be yet another issue in the midst of Brexit fallout. We could do without having a different time zone in Derry and Letterkenny.

randd1

Eh, why don't they just change it by half an hour, and leave it between the two times thereafter so we don't have to change again?

Quackster

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

I don’t see this being touched again until after the pandemic is resolved. People have enough on their plates without dealing with minutiae like this at the moment.

In Ireland it would be yet another issue in the midst of Brexit fallout. We could do without having a different time zone in Derry and Letterkenny.

This will only be touched again any time soon if the UK get a notion to unilaterally change their DST setup.

The EU proposal is stone-cold dead.

Cee-Jay-Cee

There is absolutely no reason why Ireland couldn’t adjust the dates to more sensible and meaningful dates such as the last Saturday in November and then change back the last Saturday in February. They don’t need EU approval for it but god forbid we’d do anything for a sensible reason, instead our pathetic leaders are more worried about what people in another country might think about it.

False Prophet

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

There is absolutely no reason why Ireland couldn’t adjust the dates to more sensible and meaningful dates such as the last Saturday in November and then change back the last Saturday in February. They don’t need EU approval for it but god forbid we’d do anything for a sensible reason, instead our pathetic leaders are more worried about what people in another country might think about it.

Sorry, but there are reasons
(1) Northern Ireland having a different timezone will not go down well for one side and the other side will see it as victory in keeping Ireland divided
(2) England having a different time when its a main trading partner
(3) We are part of the EU, it doesn't make economic sense for us to go on a solo run and change the clocks at different times then the rest of our EU colleagues esp the likes of Germany/France.